The dialogue of the seraphic virgin Catherine of Siena

THE DIALOGUE OF
THE SERAPHIC VIRGIN

CATHERINE OF SIENA

DICTATED BY HER, WHILE IN A STATE OF ECSTASY, TO

HER SECRETARIES, AND COMPLETED IN THE

YEAR OF OUR LORD 1370

TRANSLATED FROM THE ORIGINAL ITALIAN

WITH AN INTRODUCTION ON THE STUDY OF MYSTICISM

BY

ALGAR THOROLD

COIL CHRIST!
BIB, HM.
TOKCWTOH

LONDON
KEGAN PAUL, TRENCH, TRUBNER & CO., LTD.

PATERNOSTER HOUSE, CHARING CROSS ROAD
1896

[All rights reserved]

26156 <

Printed by BALLANTYNE, HANSON & Co
At the Ballantyne Press

CONTENTS.

INTRODUCTION

A TREATISE OF DIVINE PROVIDENCE

CHAP.

PAGE

CHAP.

I. .

. 19

V.

II. .

21

VI.

III. .

22

VII.

IV. .

. 23

VIII.

A TREATISE

OF DISCRETION .

IX. .

. 36 XXVIII.

X. .

. . 38

XXIX.

XL .

- 39

XXX.

XII. .

43

XXXI.

XIII. .

. . 46

XXXII.

XIV. .

. 49

XXXIII.

XV. .

. 52

XXXIV.

XVI. .

54

XXXV.

XVII. .

55

XXXVI.

XVIII. .

. . 56

XXXVII.

XIX. .

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XXXVIII.

XX. .

. . 58

XXXIX.

XXI. .

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XL.

XXII. .

. 60

XLI.

XXIII. .

. 61

XLII.

XXIV. .

. 64

XLIII.

XXV. .

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XLIV.

XXVI. .

. 66

XLV.

XXVII. .

68

XLVI.

PAGE

I

19

28
28
31

34

36

71

72

75
76

78
79
80

81

83
84
86
87
89
89
93
95
98
100
103

vi

CONTENTS

A TREATISE OF DISC RATION -continued

CHAP.

PAGE

CHAP.

PAGE

XLVII. .

. 105

LVI. .

. 122

XLVIII. .

. 108

LVII. .

. 123

XLIX. .

. no

LVIII. .

. 123

L. .

. 112

LIX. .

. 124

LI. .

. 113

LX. .

. 125

LII. .

. 116

LXI. .

. 128

LIII. .

. 116

LXII. .

. 129

LIV. .

. 118

LXIII. .

131

LV. .

ATPTT A "FTQT? f^\

. 120
TT PPAVRR

LXIV. .

. 134

1 KJlAl lor!* IJ

LXV. .

r r K/i i E* r\.
136

XC. .

. 186

LXVI. .

. 137

XCI. .

. 188

LXVII. .

. 142

XCII. .

190

LXVIII. .

144

XCIII. .

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LXIX. .

. I 4 6

XCIV. .

. 195

LXX. .

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XCV. .

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LXXI. .

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XCVI. .

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LXXII. .

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XCVII. .

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LXXIII. .

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XCVIII. .

. 206

LXXIV. .

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XCIX. .

. 209

LXXV. .

154

c. .

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LXXVI. .

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CI. .

. 216

LXXVII. .

CII. .

. 218

LXXVIII. .

. 161

cm. .

. 220

LXXIX. .

. . 165

CIV. .

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LXXX. .

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cv. .

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LXXXI. .

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CVI. .

. 225

LXXXII. .

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CVII. .

. 227

LXXXIII. .

. 171

CVIII. .

. 229

LXXXIV. .

. 172

CIX. .

. 231

LXXXV. .

173

ex. .

. 232

LXXXVI. .

. 176

CXI. .

237

LXXXVII. .

. . 178

CXII. .

239

LXXXVI II. .

179

CXIII. .

. 24O

LXXXIX. .

. 180

CXIV. .

. 242

CONTENTS
A TREATISE OF PR AVER continued

vn

CHAP.

PAGE

CHAP.

PAGE

cxv. .

: 243

cxxv. .

273

CXVI. .

. 245

CXXVI. .

. 277

CXVII. .

. 248

CXXVII. .

. 280

CXVIII. .

. 250

CXXVIII. .

. .286

CXIX. .

. 251

CXXIX. .

. 290

cxx. .

. 260

cxxx. .

. 296

CXXI. .

\ . 263

CXXXI. .

. 298

CXXII. .

. 266

CXXXII. .

. 303

CXXIII. .

. . 267

CXXXIII. .

309

CXXIV. .

. 269

CXXXIV. .

. . 3ii

A TREATISE

OF OBEDIENC

~:E .

CXXXV. .

CXLII. .

338

CXXXVI. .

. 318

CXLIII. .

343

CXXXVII. .

. 322

CXLIV. .

345

CXXXVIII. .

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CXLV. .

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CXXXIX. .

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CXLVI. .

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CXL. .

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CXLVII. .

354

CXLI. .

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CXLVIII. .

-357

INTRODUCTION.

" I AM persuaded," said Claude Bernard, " that the day
will come, when the man of science, the philosopher and
the poet will all understand each other." Whatever we
may think of this prophecy, we most of us feel that the
one-sided absolutism of the past, whether religious or
scientific, is no longer possible. The inevitable vehemence
of the reaction against bigotry and superstition has, in a
measure, spent itself, and the best minds of the present,
influenced by the spirit of Socrates claim to wisdom, are
cautiously and tentatively feeling their way to a nicer
adjustment of the scales of thought.

That these should ever be poised in perfect equilibrium
is no doubt impossible in this world of clashing cate
gories ; but the undoubted truths to be found in extremes
are beginning to be recognised as partial and relative, as
only fragmentary elements in the ultimate synthesis.

From the conviction that the whole truth is not to be
found in any partial utterance of humanity, the passage is
easy to the opinion, that for a really philosophical appre
ciation of our nature, an impartial examination of all the
sides of man is necessary. The philosopher, the scientist,
the artist, the saint must all contribute. Contemporary
non-religious thought, like its predecessor of an earlier day,
is becoming persuaded that some good thing may come
even out of Nazareth. The thin, dry optimism of secta
rian Christianity and of official materialism we see now to
be not so much erroneous as unthinkable. We have done,
it may be hoped for ever, with " the proofs which proved,
and the explanations which explained nothing."

2 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

A hundred years ago truth seemed a simpler matter to
our fathers. They stood on the threshold of the modern
industrial world, to them a coming golden age tipped with
the brightness of rising science. Exact knowledge and
universal education were to make men happy and wise and
.good. Kings and priests were gone, or, at least, the back of
their despotism was broken ; these incubi, the causes of all
his misery, removed, man, a well-meaning creature, and
more than capable of taking care of himself, would begin at
last to live, and, in the normal exercise of his natural func
tions, hitherto artificially strapped down by theological and
political tyrants, would find true satisfaction and, conse
quently, the perfect happiness of his being. But they
counted without machine-looms or the law of heredity, of
which they derided the theological expression in the doctrine
of original sin.

The true value of the Revolution did not lie in the sup
posed sagacity of its political wisdom, and even less in its
social results, which we have with us to-day, but in the
indomitable hope and faith which animated some of its
.greatest illustrations. It is impossible to read the best
French moralists of the Revolutionary period say, Vauve-
nargues and Condorcet without being struck by the deep
spiritual earnestness which underlay much in them that was
flimsy as argument, mistaken as fact, frothy and unreal as
sentiment.

The Revolution stated the human problem in collective
terms, forgetting that the only authority which can address
men collectively must transcend them individually, that is,
must represent the Divine. Mere multiplicity, as such,
must return to unity under pain of disintegration. Now,
the revealed symbols apart, the highest human manifesta
tion is the individual raised to the quintessence of per
sonality called genius, for he, only, has, in a supreme
degree, will and intellect ; and will and intellect move the
world. The Phtlosophes, whether deists or atheists, by
hypothesis, ruled the conception of the Divine out of relation
to man, and therefore had no message for him as an indi
vidual. He was considered, primarily, as a social item, and

INTRODUCTION 3

formed, in juxtaposition to, not in fusion with, other such
items, the modern State-fetish, that grotesque parody of an
individual. The result of all this is, to-day, evident enough.
Modern society, the creation of the Revolution, is based on
ignorance, or, at least, disregard of the distinction between
organic and mechanical unity.

For a society, as for a work of art, there are two kinds
of unity. This quality may result from the careful observ
ance of certain rules imposed from without on the subject-
matter, without any regard for the inner unity of thought,
in which case it is purely mechanical. Of this, the dramatic
works of Boileau are a classical example. Organic unity,
on the other hand, results from the harmonious expression
of an idea, of a word made flesh, as, for instance, the
Parsifal" of Wagner.

Mechanical unity, being expressive of no idea, may per
fectly well result from anonymous collaboration, supposing
the formula to be equally accessible to all the workers, but
organic unity, like the idea which informs it, is necessarily
the creation of an individual. For ideas are of the indi
vidual.

The modern state, resulting as it does from anonymous
collaboration, expresses no idea ; its unity is therefore only
mechanical, arising from the juxtaposition, not the fusion, of
its components ; for, herds of men can only be fused into the
organic unity of a nation by the philosopher s stone of
politics, an Idea, a word becoming flesh in a nation, its
necessary social expression. Such were the great Assyrian
and Egyptian dynasties, the Jewish Theocracy, and in its
purer days, the French Monarchy, with its significant war-
cry, " Gesta Dei per Francos."

It is by incarnation that an idea becomes an ideal, and
without ideals neither nations nor men can live. In the
pages of " Compromise " Mr. John Morley bitterly laments
the lack of idealism in contemporary English politics, but,
with the elaborate short-sightedness so characteristic of his
greater master, Mill, he fails to see its antecedent.

But it is not my intention to dwell on the political results
of the Revolution, which have been abundantly and minutely

4 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

set forth by Taine. So much as has been said was,
however, a necessary prelude to the estimate of its effects
in the spiritual domain.

Without such an estimate, it is wholly impossible to
appreciate the mystical movement of to-day, or, in any degree,
to determine what permanent value underlies its manifesta
tions, often grotesque, sometimes contemptible. France is
a better field for the consideration of such effects than
England, for France, besides being the original home of the
Revolution, is a sort of moral forcing-house for ideas ; while
Englishmen are still tinkering at a theory and endeavouring
to reduce it to some impotent truism with which the British
elector shall feel quite at home, Frenchmen have reached its
final expression in their national life and literature.

The best part of a nation s soul betrays itself in its art,
for a national art is an attempt to eternise the types held
worthy of admiration by the spiritual leaders of a people.
The supreme art of Frenchmen is their prose. Should the
Latin Decadence issue fatally, the French tongue will live for
ever as the third great classical language. There has been
a special reason for its development during this and the
last century the appearance of a new literary type, the man
of letters, whom, as Mr. Morley has pointed out, the future
historian will find to have been the one original creation of
the times. There were great brigands before Napoleon,
there were political condottieri before Boulanger, there were
Tribunes of the People before Marx and Lasalle, there were
no professional men of letters before the Fathers of the
Encyclopaedia. Originating with Voltaire, Diderot and
D Alembert, the type, checked in development by the out
break of the Revolution which needed letters as little as
chemistry,* and by the Philistine militarism of the First
Consul, arrived at maturity in the person of Renan, who
was also a complete embodiment of the effects of the Revo
lution in spiritual matters. It is important that we should
face the truth about this man. He raised opportunism to
the dignity of an idea ; he was the Vautrin of the intellect ;

* Lavoisier was brutally told that the Republic did not need
chemists.

INTRODUCTION 5

his influence reigned supreme for forty years among the
majority which, incapable of honest introspection, accepts the
dicta of the superior person in the place of genuine
experience. For the modern man of letters reigns by his
prestige due to the skill with which he re-presents to his
readers their current ideas. A practical man of talent, he
shows us that part of ourself, that we at once recognise,
crowned with the flowers of his rhetoric, and, seduced by
the implied compliment, we acclaim him. The Genius, the
Creative artist, the " intuitive by love," shows us those
depths of ourself that seem strange and foreign to us, but
of which we dimly guess the existence, when passion or
insight wears threadbare for a moment the smooth lustre
of our daily habit ; of such moments we are ashamed, and,
irritated at the vision of a genius, proceed to decry him.

The work of Renan was to turn religion into religiosity,
but he was, after all, but one, though the chief, of a group.
It was the task of Zola to apply to the criticism of contem
porary life, by means of the experimental novel, the gospel
traced by Renan in the " Avenir de la Science." Lhomme
metaphysique est wort, was Zola s text, and with meta
physics were to be buried religion and mysticism of every
kind. The oSoc avw was to be turned into a blind alley
where rubbish might be shot. The experimental novel pro
fessed to depict life as perceptible, in its more general aspects,
to the senses, with a minimum of ideation. An admirer of
Zola recently pointed jubilantly to the fact that the number
of copies issued of the Rougon-Macquart series would, if
piled one on the other, overtop the Eiffel Tower, and the
school has, in fact, found its success rather in the quantity
than in the quality of its work. This judgment may seem
too sweeping, and several masterpieces produced by writers
of the school will occur to the reader, but it will appear on
closer examination that the works of the naturalist school
possessing supreme literary quality, have, in reality, what
ever their label, been conceived outside the formula of natu
ralism. They are at most the brilliant heresies of a very
dull and pedantic orthodoxy. They deal either with
types unreal in themselves, as the superb "La Faustin"

6 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

of Edmond de Goncourt, or the thread of circumstances,
through which the story progresses, is abnormal in a high
degree, as in Zola s " Bete Humaine," in which coincidences
are forced to an extent rarely attempted by the most auda
cious romanticist. Flaubert, the greatest of the so-called
naturalist masters, could never destroy the romantic and
mystical side of his nature to which he gave a free rein in
" Salammbo," and the " Tentation de St. Antoine." He is
quite as romantic, that is, as unreal, in " Madame Bovary."
The Emma Bovarys whom we know do not commit suicide,
they are a plague to their husbands and every one con
nected with them for a certain time, and in the end usually
become devotes of a low order.

Perhaps the finest work produced in the domain of pure
naturalism has been Joris-Karl Huysmans " Soeurs Vatard,"
published in 1879. But Huysmans was not to remain a
naturalist. In 1884, " A Rebours" sounded the note, not
so much of reaction as of revolt, emphasised in 1893 by
" La Bas." The first chapter of this powerful and lurid
book contains the judicial process of naturalism.

The evidence is summed up and judgment pronounced
justly enough, though not without the touch of bitterness
proverbially attributed to perverts with regard to the church
of their baptism. Huysmans is not alone. Paul Verlaine
in "Sagesse," " Impenitence Finale," " Crimen Amoris,"
and many other well known chef-d ceuvres, has given sublime
expression to the Catholic Mythos. In a few verses of
incomparable perfection, Stephane Mallarme sings a no less
exalted mysticism. It is needless to enumerate a list of
names doubtless well known to the reader, as space does
not permit detailed criticism of the work connected with
them ; it may be enough to state here that, whether
decadent or symbolist, neo-catholic or neo-buddhist, con
temporary schools of French literature unite in being
uncompromisingly anti-naturalist.* The young Frenchmen
of to-day look for inspiration rather to the earlier work of

* An exception must be made in favour of the strong work of
J. H. Rosny, who seems to be the only serious writer of the new
generation professing adherence to the old methods.

INTRODUCTION 7

Victor Hugo, to Baudelaire, to Villiers-de-l Isle-Adam, and
to Barbey d Aurevilly, who said of his generation that, if he
were not already a Catholic by conviction, he would become
one in order to have a place of vantage, cTou cracker sur
ces gens-Id.

Naturalism, then, has only saved itself in the proportion
in which it has been unfaithful to its formula that is, it
has failed. But note the far-reaching implications of its
failure. The experimental novel was not presented to us
as one among many possible literary modes (its rise and
decline would then have possessed only a technical and
historical interest for the literary student), but as the
interlinear artistic translation of the text of life as conceived
by the " scientific organisers." If the experimental novel
has failed, it is because they have not succeeded. This
great literary experiment has, in fact, reduced to the absurd
the " philosophic " pretensions on which it was based. A
fine naturalistic novel, in the strict sense of the word, is an
impossibility, because natural science alone can no more
" organise" human life than knowledge of the chemical
constituents of colours can make a man an art critic.

The new spirit which breathes in so much of the best
contemporary work is so widely diffused that it does not
escape the dangers attaching to fashion. Many a contem
porary " neo-catholic," and tl neo-buddhist " regards his
soul as one among other picturesque poses for his tempera
ment. There will be moments when a Faun will replace
St. Francis as the " symbol " of his longings. A specimen
of this kind of thing is Mr. John Davidson s " Ballad of a
Nun," the more regrettable that Mr. Davidson has shown
himself capable of no ordinary work. Here the Faun is
clothed indeed in the religious habit, but the garb is irk
some, and the best part of the poem, the part in which we
enjoy thoroughly artistic expression, is when the robe of
penance is hastily twitched up to the shaggy knee and the
hoofed feet merrily twinkle in a dance symbolic ? Yes,
and we know too well of what. For such * mysticism " as
this a whole-souled person can feel nothing but sorrow.
This may lead us to the consideration of another danger to

8 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

which the new movement is exposed. Any new form of
thought inevitably appears at first as the negation of the
immediately preceding form. It is only when the first
effervescence has passed away, when we come to see with
grief, unless we are philosophers that the face of the world
seems little changed by the soul-compelling beauty of our
personal vision, that we realise the dependence of our ideas
on their historical antecedents, and that we are, in fact, our
father s sons. So we proceed to develop and assimilate
where, at first, we had scornfully denied. The present
movement inevitably appears as a reaction against science.
In reality, however, it is no reaction against science as
such, a proceeding which would be as ridiculous as it would
be futile, but only against that false estimate of the scope
of the " natural " sciences, as the supreme and only means
by which, in the words of Condorcet, right judgment was
to become an " almost universal quality, so that the habitual
state of men throughout a nation should be to be led by
truth, to submit in conduct to the rules of morality, feeding
on sweet and pure sentiments." And the good but mis
taken man added : " This is the point to which the labours
of genius and the progress of light must infallibly conduct
us." Such promises have duped us, and some of those
who realise how they have been beguiled are disposed to
execrate the very name of their deceiver. But we should
not forget, on the one hand, that these illusory assurances
were not contained in the simple solemn utterances of the
oracle itself, but rather in the glosses added by its over-
zealous ministers, and, on the other, that psychology need
not cease to be a science because physiological methods of
investigation are insufficient for it.

For the sake of their own stability and permanence, the
leaders of the present movement cannot take refuge from
materialism by running their heads into the sand of irre
sponsible fantasy, nor can they afford to lose hold of
the truth contained in, even if inadequately expressed by,
naturalism, which has inserted in our very marrow a passion
for exactitude. The romantic elegy, with its humanity de
dessus de pendule, is no longer possible ; no system, philo-

INTRODUCTION 9

sophical or religious, that has not a real application to life,
as it is in its humblest and most elementary details, has the
remotest chance of success. The problem of modern
thought remains what it has always been, namely, to " syn-
thetise the here or real of antiquity with the hereafter or
ideal of mediae valism," and both these elements must
appear in any attempted solution. We must not shrink in
disgust from naturalism ; we must go through it to what lies
beyond, to what people who dislike the word supernatural
may perhaps be willing to call ultranatural. For the famous
controversy which, to many, even to-day, is beginning to have
but a historical interest, is, after all, only a matter of terms.

No serious theologian really holds " miracles " to repre
sent the caprices of the Eternal Mind. We all remember
the story, quoted by Newman, of the old priest who, in spite
of repeated correction, persisted in saying, "Quod ore
mumpsimus " instead of " sumpsimus," when taking the
ablution at Mass. His " mumpsimus," he insisted, was as
good as his corrector s "sumpsimus." And no doubt it
was. What is vital and essential to recognise is that
mysticism is no sickly delusion of this or that morbid indi
vidual, but as real a part of the experience of man as the
nervous system. It may be defined as the reduction to the
emotional modality of the highest concept of the intellect,
or, more briefly, the habit of the love of God.

So far from being a delusion it is one of the most
exact sciences. To suggest a parallel the unlearned music-
lover rejoices in what is to his consciousness the plea
sant sensation of his favourite art, he revels in simple,
physical pleasure, and at most transfers it to the senti
mental nerve centres.

" For do but note a wild and wanton herd,
Or race of youthful and unhandled colts,
Fetching mad bounds, bellowing, and neighing loud,
Which is the hot condition of their blood ;
If they but hear perchance a trumpet sound,
Or any air of music touch their ears,
You shall perceive them make a mutual stand,
Their savage eyes turned to a modest gaze,
By the sweet power of music." Merchant of Venice.

io THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

Yet there is no art of which the expression is governed
by such rigid laws ; an exact mathematical structure under
lies the wailing so human, as we say, of the violins.
Mystical science is the counterpoint of the soul s symphony :
Ascensiones in corde suo disposuit. Man s approach to
God is regulated by the strictest laws, and follows a true
mathematical curve. This is equally true conversely of the
man who has put these things behind him and deliberately
drowns his spirit in his instinctive life. Final impenitence
is not so easy, and by no means to be reached until the
necessarily intervening stages have been painfully and
laboriously passed through. He was an amateur theologian,
if a great poet, who sang of the " easy descent of Hell."
The professional touch is surer. The Prophet tells us that
" the way of the transgressor is hard."

The great mystics, then, are not maniacs revelling in
individual fantasies ; they have but developed, to the full
extent of their power, tendencies existing, in germ at least,
in all normally developed men of all time. For the science
of union with God is not the monopoly of any religion,
though some may bring to it a more exact terminology,
and may possess vaster resources with which to stimulate
and direct its development than others. It is furthermore
difficult to trace, in the lives of the great mystics, any
operation of the laws of heredity or environment that
usually govern human expression. They are philosophers,
as Plotinus and St. Denys ; ignorant hermits, as Ruysbrock ;
unlettered women, as St. Theresa or St. Catherine. They
live in modern Paris or mediaeval England, or the story of
their lives can be but faintly discerned through the rich
web of Eastern tradition ; they are legends of the past,
they travel in our railway carriages with us to-day. And
yet, in spite of the dissimilarity of their origins, there is a
wonderful unanimity in their teaching. I cannot do better
than quote an instance of this given by Maeterlink, in his
preface to Ruysbrock s " L Ornement des Noces Spiritu-
elles " : " Ruysbrock distinguishes three kinds of lives : the
active, the internal, and the superessential. The Gnostics
distinguish between the spirit, the soul, and the material

INTRODUCTION n

life, and divide men into three classes : the pneumatic, or
spiritual ; the psychic, or animiques ; and the hylic, or
material. Plotinus also distinguishes in the soul the intelli
gence, the reasonable soul, and the animal nature. The
Zohar distinguishes between spirit, soul, and life of the
senses ; and, in both systems, as in Ruysbrock, the relation
of the three principles is explained by a procession compared
to an irradiation followed by the theory of the Divine
meeting : God entering us from within outwards, we going
to him from without inwards, &c." The words of the
mystics never grow old. No religion, as has been said
above, has the monopoly of mysticism, for a system of life
is only religious in so far as it is mystical. A professed
religion which should fall short of mysticism would be at
best a system of high ethics of more or less psychological
value, according to the accuracy of the observations on
which it might be based. When the religious evolution of
man was crowned by the Incarnation of the Second Person
of the Holy Trinity, mysticism received the countersign of
that tremendous Mystery. The law of the human spirit s
approach to God was not altered. Cleanness of heart was
no new condition for the Blessed Vision. The Christian
Church has given us additional motives and sanctions, and,
in the central doctrine of Christ s Mediation, a remedy, at
once, for sinfulness and moral helplessness, while the sacra
mental system, culminating in the Mass, supplies a divinely
efficacious hygiene of the soul ; but the soul s personal
ascent to God can follow no other path than that traced
for it by its own intimate constitution.

It was the fashion in the last century among superficial
critics of religion, and remains so among their descendants
to-day, to regard the magnificent debates which agitated
the early Christian Church as so many examples of the
perverse and futile subtlety of the decadent Greek intel
lect. A naive appeal to common sense has always been
the beloved disguise of a certain kind of obscurantist.
Yet the early heresies were by no means in the first place
intellectual theories, they were primarily mystical ; their
theories being formed to meet their emotional require-

12 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

merits, being, in this, inverse instances of the law of
theological development, Lex orandi, lex credendi. There
was comparatively little difference, so far as theoretical
statement went, between the religion of Bardesanes of
Edessa and Catholicism ; yet who does not see that the
motive-power of the schismatic Gnostic was pride resulting
in a scornful isolation from the multitudes plunged in
"hylic" darkness, whereas Catholicism is nothing if not
the religion of universal love ? The God-idea and not
the Self-idea being in the Christian scheme the centre of
the soul s mystical periphery (from which it follows that
love, not knowledge, is the primary condition of Christian
mysticism), heresy may be defined as a centrifugal tendency
of the human spirit which in reaction tends to replace the
true centre God by the false centre self. The idea under
which this tendency is disguised, varies indefinitely from
Arius to Luther, but the tendency is always the same ; like
the evil spirit in the Gospel story its name is Legion.
More than this, the particular doctrine under which the
heretical tendency succeeds at one time in disguising itself,
though false at the time in its strained relation to the whole
body of truth, may, at a future date, when reduced to its
proper relation, be assimilated by Catholic theology, and
become a legitimate and guaranteed form of expression of
the truth. "Thus Christianity grew in its proportions,
gaining aliment and medicine from all that it came near, yet
preserving its original type, from its perception and its love
of what had been revealed once for all, and was no private
imagination" (Newman, "Development of Christian Doctrine,"
P- 359)- The original basis of Christianity was then per
ception and love, aliment and medicine, in other words
dogmatic expansion, and ever increasing clearness and
correctness of theoretic statement came largely from its
contact with its environment. Not only the Hebrew
Scriptures, but the whole religious experience of man forms
the subject-matter out of which the Church elaborates in the
light of the Incarnation, according to the needs of the ages,
her dogmatic system. To it Plato has contributed as well as
Moses. The beloved disciple of Jesus wrote his Gospel in

INTRODUCTION 13

the language of a Platonician, and his Apocalypse in the
symbolism of the Kabbala. Yet the eagle of mystical truth
was not to be the Vicar of Christ. That high office was
reserved for the Apostle who in the moment of trial had
denied his Lord with an oath. These things are significant.
Our religion, regarded from the point of view of historical
development, is the fulfilment and completion of Judaism ;
but from the point of view of mental development it
is seen to be the fulfilment of very much more. The
Areopagite did not cease to be a Platonist when he became
a Christian ; the greater part of the Divine Names might
have been written by Plotinus. It was partly the very
identity of aim, and partly the more immediate devotional
needs of the youthful Church requiring dogma for their
expression, that kept the Alexandrian Neoplatonists aliens
from the Christian organisation. The sacred fire, relighted
by Plotinus, Porphyry and Jamblichus, was to pass into
the veins of the great rival of Neoplatonism, the inheritor,
according to ancient promise, of the ends of the earth.
Justin Martyr, the first of the philosophic Fathers, sees in ;
Socrates a manifestation of the Logos, and expounds the
doctrines of the fall of man, freedom of the will, and
regeneration in Platonist terms ; and St. Clement of
Alexandria finally baptized the permanent truth contained
in the Platonic traditions.

Apart from the interest of the subject for those who
themselves would live the life," apart also from its histori
cal value as a momentous chapter of the book of human
experience, the study of mysticism is especially necessary for
those who concern themselves with the analysis of human
consciousness. The desire for ecstasy is at the very root and
heart of our nature. This craving, when bound down by
the animal instincts, meets us on every side in those hateful
contortions of the social organism called the dram-shop and
the brothel. It is needless to point out its connection with
art, and even with the most abstract processes of philo
sophic thought. Human life is informed at every stage by
this desire of ecstasy, of self-escape into something higher.
Mysticism alone affords to those favoured beings who are

14 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

competent in brain and will for its ardours a true and
lasting realisation of this desire. Neither the sensual nor
the sentimental life can do so, for nature or society con
stantly throws us by illnesses or laws on the hither or
farther side of its perfect realisation. In the Divine Life
alone, whether of the metaphysical intellect, or of the love
of God, are we sure of ultimate success. There are no
organic resistances in the world of the Eternal. The
famous words of St. Augustine do but express the ele
mentary law of psychology: "Thou hast made us for
Thyself, and our hearts faint until they find Thee." Mysti
cism, then, places in the clear relief of logical and final
expression this important law of our nature. And this is
much. But it does more also. Our consciousness replies
to the touch of a God, as it does to no other stimulus,
sentimental or passional. At the Divine call the soul yields
up her dearest secrets.

It is otherwise with the phenomena of sexual love, which
seem to have been thought by the naturalists to contain the
whole gamut of psychological possibility. And this for
two main reasons. Firstly, because the stimulus of desire,
the transformation of which into unselfish love is never
anything but the transient delusion of the imagination,
leaves the depths of our nature unexplored, so that what
looks like clarity is often nothing but shallowness ; and,
secondly, on account of the attitude of ruse and sex-combat
utterly confusing the real issues involved, which the in
herited laws of our species impose on these phenomena as
their vital condition. More can be learnt of the intricacies
of our interior life, of the inter-connection and mutual
dependence of " psychic states," from St. Theresa or St.
Catherine than from Zola or Wundt. It is as though our
soul were a parchment which only reveals the tiniest
wrinkles and scratches on its surface when stretched and
strained to the uttermost by the Divine Hand.

The Dialogue of Saint Catherine of Siena, which is here
offered to the English reader for the first time in his own
language, was dictated to her secretaries by the Saint in

INTRODUCTION 15

ecstasy. Apart from the extraordinary circumstances of its
production, this work has a special interest.

The composition of the Siennese dyer s daughter, whose
will, purified and sublimated by prayer, imposed itself on
Popes and Princes, is an almost unique specimen of what
may be called " ecclesiastical " mysticism. A word of
explanation will render clear the writer s meaning.

Most of the great mystics, such as Tauler, Suso, St. John
of the Cross, consider the ecclesiastical dogmata as granted,
and concern themselves but little with the loci theologici of
their doctrine. To their introverted vision the varied rays
of theological expression are fused in the white heat of the
Godhead directly contemplated. Not indeed that they are
in any sense of the word un-Catholic, but that being
occupied almost exclusively with the sublime as distinguished
from the ordinary processes of the spiritual life, their
terminology is as special as the experiences they attempt to
relate are abnormal.

Catholic dogma, on the other hand, is the collective form
of truth necessary for the salvation of all, and therefore
stated in terms intelligible to all, developed in expression
through the ages of the Church s existence, proposed on her
supreme and ever-present authority, and ratified to us by the
perpetual " assistance " of the promised Paraclete.

The last verse of that magnificent hymn which we mis
call the Athanasian Creed contains the proposition (to be
received of course with the limitations necessarily belonging
to such a composition) that without the Catholic Faith no
man can be saved. But a man may very well be saved ^
without understanding a single word of St. John of the
Cross.

The special value of St. Catherine s " Dialogo," lies in the
fact that from first to last it is nothing more than a mystical
exposition of the creeds taught to every child in the Catholic
poor-schools. The saint s insight penetrates every turn of
the well-worn path that we must all humbly tread until we
reach the last point of solid earth whence we can take
flight into the Platonic JEther where subject and object are
one in the Ineffable Essence. And wonderful that insight

16 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

sometimes is ; how subtle the analysis of the state of the
" worldly man " who loves God for his own pleasure or
profit ! The special snares of the devout are cut through
by the keen logic of one who has experienced and triumphed
over them. Terrible, again, is the retribution prophesied to
the " unworthy ministers of the Blood."

And so every well-known form of Christian life, healthy
or parasitic, is treated of, detailed, analysed incisively,
remorselessly, and then subsumed under the general concep
tion of God s infinite loving-kindness and mercy.

The great mystics having usually taken as their starting-
point what to most is the goal hardly to be reached, their
own treatment of the preliminary stages of spirituality is
frequently conventional and jejune. Compare, for instance,
the first book with the two succeeding ones, of Ruysbrock s
" Ornement des Noces Spirituelles," that unique breviary of
the Christian Platonician. Another result of their having
done so is that, with certain noble exceptions, the literature
of this subject has fallen into the hands of a class of writers,
or rather purveyors, well intentioned, no doubt, but not
endowed with the higher spiritual or mental faculties, whom
it is not unfair to describe as the feuilletonistes of piety.
Such works, brightly bound, are appropriately exposed for
sale in the Roman shop windows, among the gaudy objets
de religion they so much resemble. To keep healthy and raise
the tone of devotional literature is surely an eighth spiritual
work of mercy. St. Philip Neri s advice in the matter was
to prefer those writers whose names were preceded by the
title of Saint. In the " Dialogo " we have a great saint,
one of the most extraordinary women who ever lived, treat
ing, in a manner so simple and familiar, at times, as to become
almost colloquial, of the elements of practical Christianity.
Passages occur frequently of lofty eloquence and also of
such literary perfection that this book is held by critics to
be one of the classics of the age and land which produced
Boccaccio and Petrarch. To-day in the streets of Siena the
same Tuscan idiom can be heard, hardly altered since the
days of St. Catherine.

Of the Saint s public life this is not the place to speak,

INTRODUCTION 17

and her interior life, in such of its stages as she was per
mitted to reveal, is amply detailed in the following pages.
Readers who are interested in her "legend " will find the
matter admirably treated in Augusta Theodosia Drane s
" History of St. Catherine of Siena," the only English life of
the Saint written with any comprehension of the subject ;
but historical knowledge of St. Catherine has little to do
with the science to be learnt from her mystical experiences.
One word as to the translation. I have almost always
followed the text of Gigli, a learned Siennese ecclesiastic, who
edited the complete works of St. Catherine in the last cen
tury. His is the latest edition printed of the " Dialogo."
Once or twice I have preferred the cinquecento Venetian
editor. My aim has been to translate as literally as possible,
and at the same time to preserve the characteristic rythm of
the sentences so suggestive in its way of the sing-song
articulation of the Siennese of to-day.- St. Catherine has no
style as such ; she introduces a metaphor and forgets it ; the
sea, a vine, and a plough will often appear in the same sen
tence, sometimes in the same phrase. In such cases I have
occasionally taken the liberty of adhering to the first simile
when the confusion of metaphor in the original involves
hopeless obscurity of expression.

April 30, 1895.
Feast of St. Catherine of Siena.

THE

DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE
OF SIENA.

CHAPTER I.

A TREATISE OF DIVINE PROVIDENCE

How a soul, elevated by desire of the honour of God, and of the
salvation of her neighbours, exercising herself in humble prayer,
after she had seen the union of the soul, through love, with God,
asked of God four requests.

THE soul, who is lifted by a very great and yearning desire
for the honour of God and the salvation of souls, begins
by exercising herself, for a certain space of time, in the
ordinary virtues, remaining in the cell of self-knowledge, in
order to know better the goodness of God towards her.
This she does because knowledge must precede love, and
only when she has attained love, can she strive to follow
and to clothe herself with the truth. But, in no way, does
the creature receive such a taste of the truth, or so brilliant
a light therefrom, as by means of humble and continuous
prayer, founded on knowledge of herself and of God ;
because prayer, exercising her in the above way, unites
with God the soul that follows the footprints of Christ
Crucified, and thus, by desire and affection, and union of
love, makes her another Himself. Christ would seem to
have meant this, when He said : To him who will love
Me and will observe My commandment, will I manifest My
self ; and he shall be one thing with Me and I with him.
In several places we find similar words, by which we can
see that it is, indeed, through the effect of love, that the soul
becomes another Himself. That this may be seen more

20 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

clearly, I will mention what I remember having heard from
a handmaid of God, namely, that, when she was lifted up
in prayer, with great elevation of mind, God was not
wont to conceal, from the eye of her intellect, the love which
He had for His servants, but rather to manifest it ; and,
that among other things, He used to say : " Open the eye
of thy intellect, and gaze into Me, and thou shalt see the
beauty of My rational creature. And look at those creatures
who, among the beauties which I have given to the soul,
creating her in My image and similitude, are clothed with
the nuptial garment (that is the garment of love), adorned
with many virtues, by which they are united with Me
through love. And yet I tell thee, if thou shouldest ask
Me, who these are, I should reply" (said the sweet and
amorous Word of God) " they are another Myself, inasmuch
as they have lost and denied their own will, and are clothed
with Mine, are united to Mine, are conformed to Mine."
It is therefore true, indeed, that the soul unites herself with
God by the affection of love.

So, that soul, wishing to know and follow the truth more
manfully, and lifting her desires first for herself for she
considered that a soul could not be of use, whether in
doctrine, example, or prayer, to her neighbour, if she did
not first profit herself, that is, if she did not acquire virtue
in herself addressed four requests to the Supreme and
Eternal Father. The first was for herself ; the second for
the reformation of the Holy Church ; the third a general
prayer for the whole world, and in particular for the peace
of Christians who rebel, with much lewdness and persecution^
against the Holy Church ; in the fourth and last, she be
sought the Divine Providence to provide for things in
general, and in particular, for a certain case with which she
was concerned.

A TREATISE OF DIVINE PROVIDENCE 21

CHAPTER II

How the desire of this soul grew when God showed her the
neediness of the world.

THIS desire was great and continuous, but grew much more,
when the First Truth showed her the neediness of the world,
and in what a tempest of offence against God it lay. And
she had understood this the better from a letter, which she
had received from the spiritual Father of her soul, in which
he explained to her the penalties and intolerable dolour
caused by offences against God, and the loss of souls, and
the persecutions of Holy Church.

All this lighted the fire of her holy desire with grief for
the offences, and with the joy of the lively hope, with which
she waited for God to provide against such great evils.
And, since the soul seems, in such communion, sweetly to
bind herself fast within herself and with God, and knows
better His truth, inasmuch as the soul is then in God, and
God in the soul, as the fish is in the sea, and the sea in the
fish, she desired the arrival of the morning (for the morrow
was a feast of Mary) in order to hear Mass. And, when
the morning came, and the hour of the Mass, she sought
with anxious desire her accustomed place ; and, with a great
knowledge of herself, being ashamed of her own imperfection,
appearing to herself to be the cause of all the evil that was
happening throughout the world, conceiving a hatred and
displeasure against herself, and a feeling of holy justice,
with which knowledge, hatred, and justice, she purified the
stains which seemed to her to cover her guilty soul,
she said : " O Eternal Father, I accuse myself before Thee,
in order that Thou mayest punish me for my sins in this
finite life, and, inasmuch as my sins are the cause of the
sufferings which my neighbour must endure, I implore Thee,
in Thy kindness, to punish them in my person."

22 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

CHAPTER III.

How finite works are not sufficient for punishment or recompense
without the perpetual affection of love.

THEN, the Eternal Truth, seized and drew more strongly
to Himself her desire, doing as He did in the Old Testament,
for when the sacrifice was offered to God, a fire descended
and drew to Him the sacrifice that was acceptable to Him ;
so did the sweet Truth to that soul, in sending down the
fire of the clemency of the Holy Spirit, seizing the sacri
fice of desire that she made of herself, saying : " Dost
thou not know, dear daughter, that all the sufferings, which
the soul endures, or can endure, in this life, are insufficient
to punish one smallest fault, because the offence, being done
to Me, who am the Infinite Good, calls for an infinite
satisfaction ? However, I wish that thou shouldest know,
that not all the pains that are given to men in this life are
given as punishments, but as corrections, in order to chastise
a son when he offends ; though it is true that both the guilt
and the penalty can be expiated by the desire of the soul,
that is, by true contrition, not through the finite pain endured,
but through the infinite desire ; because God, Who is infinite,
wishes for infinite love and infinite grief. Infinite grief I
wish from My creature in two ways : in one way, through
her sorrow for her own sins, which she has committed
against Me her Creator ; in the other way, through her sorrow
for the sins which she sees her neighbours commit against
Me. Of such as these, inasmuch as they have infinite
desire, that is, are joined to me by an affection of love, and
therefore grieve when they offend Me, or see Me offended,
their every pain, whether spiritual or corporeal, from
wherever it may come, receives infinite merit, and satisfies
for a guilt which deserved an infinite penalty, although
their works are finite and done in finite time ; but, inasmuch
as they possess the virtue of desire, and sustain their suffer
ing with desire, and contrition, and infinite displeasure
against their guilt, their pain is held worthy. Paul explained

A TREATISE OF DIVINE PROVIDENCE 23

this when he said : If I had the tongues of angels, and if I
knew the things of the future and gave my body to be burned,
and have not love, it would be worth nothing to me. The
glorious Apostle thus shows that finite works are not
valid, either as punishment or recompense, without the
condiment of the affection of love."

CHAPTER IV.

How desire and contrition of heart satisfies, both for the guilt and
the penalty in oneself and in others; and how sometimes it
satisfies for the guilt only, and not the penalty.

" I HAVE shown thee, dearest daughter, that the guilt is not
punished in this finite time by any pain which is sustained
purely as such. And I say, that the guilt is punished by
the pain which is endured through the desire, love, and
contrition of the heart ; not by virtue of the pain, but by
virtue of the desire of the soul ; inasmuch as desire and
every virtue is of value, and has life in itself, through
Christ crucified, My only begotten Son, in so far as the
soul has drawn her love from Him, and virtuously follows
His virtues, that is His Footprints. In this way, and, in
no other, are virtues of value, and in this way, pains satisfy
for the fault, by the sweet and intimate love acquired in
the knowledge of My goodness, and in the bitterness and
contrition of heart acquired by knowledge of one s self and
one s own thoughts. And this knowledge generates a
hatred and displeasure against sin, and against the soul s
own sensuality, through which, she deems herself worthy of
pains and unworthy of reward."

The sweet Truth continued : " See how, by contrition of
the heart, together with love, with true patience, and with
true humility, deeming themselves worthy of pain and un
worthy of reward, such souls endure the patient humility in
which consists the above-mentioned satisfaction. Thou
askest me, then, for pains, so that I may receive satisfaction

24 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

for the offences, which are done against Me by My creatures,
and thou further askest the will to know and love Me, Who
am the Supreme Truth. Wherefore I reply that this is the
way, if thou wilt arrive at a perfect knowledge and enjoy
ment of Me, the Eternal Truth, that thou shouldest never
go outside the knowledge of thyself, and, by humbling thy
self in the valley of humility, thou wilt know Me and
thyself, from which knowledge thou wilt draw all that is
necessary. No virtue, my daughter, can have life in itself
except through charity and humility, which is the foster-
mother and nurse of charity. In self-knowledge, then, thou
wilt humble thyself, seeing that, in thyself, thou dost not
even exist ; for thy very being, as thou wilt learn, is derived
from Me, since I have loved both thee and others before
you were in existence ; and that, through the ineffable love
which I had for you, wishing to re-create you to Grace, I
have washed you, and re-created you in the Blood of My
only Begotten Son, spilt with so great a fire of love. This
Blood teaches the truth to him, who, by self-knowledge,
dissipates the cloud of self-love, and in no other way can
he learn. Then the soul will inflame herself in this know
ledge of Me with an ineffable love, through which love she
continues in constant pain ; not, however, a pain which
afflicts or dries up the soul, but one which rather fattens
her ; for since she has known My truth, and her own faults,
and the ingratitude of men, she endures intolerable suffering,
grieving because she loves Me ; for, if she did not love Me,
she would not be obliged to do so ; whence it follows
immediately, that it is right for thee, and my other servants
who have learnt My truth in this way, to sustain, even
unto death, many tribulations and injuries and insults in
word and deed, for the glory and praise of My Name ;
thus wilt thou endure and suffer pains. Do thou, there
fore, and My other servants, carry yourselves with true
patience, with grief for your sins, and with love of virtue
for the glory and praise of My Name. If thou actest thus,
I will satisfy for thy sins, and for those of My other
servants, inasmuch as the pains which thou wilt endure
will be sufficient, through the virtue of love, for satisfaction

A TREATISE OF DIVINE PROVIDENCE 25

and reward, both in thee and in others. In thyself thou
wilt receive the fruit of life, when the stains of thy ignor
ance are effaced, and I shall not remember that thou ever
didst offend Me. In others I will satisfy through the love
and affection which thou hast to Me, and I will give to
them according to the disposition with which they will
receive My gifts. In particular, to those who dispose them
selves, humbly and with reverence, to receive the doctrine
of My servants, will I remit both guilt and penalty, since
they will thus come to true knowledge and contrition for
their sins. So that, by means of prayer, and their desire of
serving Me, they receive the fruit of grace, receiving it
humbly in greater or less degree, according to the extent of
their exercise of virtue and grace in general. I say then,
that, through thy desires, they will receive remission for their
sins. See, however, the condition, namely, that their
obstinacy should not be so great in their despair as to con
demn them through contempt of the Blood, Which, with
such sweetness, has restored them.

" What fruit do they receive ?

" The fruit which I destine for them, constrained by the
prayers of My servants, is that I give them light, and that
I wake up in them the hound of conscience, and make them
smell the odour of virtue, and take delight in the conversa
tion of My servants.

" Sometimes I allow the world to show them what it is, so
that, feeling its diverse and various passions, they may
know how little stability it has, and may come to lift their
desire beyond it, and seek their native country, which is the
Eternal Life. And so I draw them by these, and by many
other ways, for the eye cannot see, nor the tongue relate,
nor the heart think, how many are the roads and ways
which I use, through love alone, to lead them back to grace,
so that My truth may be fulfilled in them. I am con
strained to do so by that inestimable love of Mine, by which
I created them, and by the love, desire, and grief of My
servants, since I am no despiser of their tears, and sweat,
and humble prayers ; rather I accept them, inasmuch as I
am He who give them this love for the good of souls and

26 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

grief for their loss. But I do not, in general, grant to these
others, for whom they pray, satisfaction for the penalty due
to them, but, only for their guilt, since they are not dis
posed, on their side, to receive, with perfect love, My love,
and that of My servants. They do not receive their grief
with bitterness, and perfect contrition for the sins they have
committed, but with imperfect love and contrition, where
fore they have not, as others, remission of the penalty, but
only of the guilt ; because such complete satisfaction requires
proper dispositions on both sides, both in him that gives
and him that receives. Wherefore, since they are imperfect,
they receive imperfectly the perfection of the desires of
those who offer them to Me, for their sakes, with suffering ;
and, inasmuch as I told thee that they do receive remission,
this is indeed the truth, that, by that way which I have told
thee, that is, by the light of conscience, and by other things,
satisfaction is made for their guilt ; for, beginning to learn,
they vomit forth the corruption of their sins, and so receive
the gift of grace.

" These are they who are in a state of ordinary charity,
wherefore, if they have trouble, they receive it in the guise
of correction, and do not resist over much the clemency of
the Holy Spirit, but, coming out of their sin, they receive
the life of grace. But if, like fools, they are ungrateful,
and ignore Me and the labours of My servants done for
them, that which was given them, through mercy, turns to
their own ruin and judgment, not through defect of mercy,
nor through defect of him who implored the mercy for the
ingrate, but solely through the man s own wretchedness and
hardness, with which, with the hands of his free will, he has
covered his heart, as it were, with a diamond, which, if it
be not broken by the Blood, can in no way be broken.
And yet, I say to thee, that, in spite of his hardness of
heart, he can use his free will while he has time, pray
ing for the Blood of My Son, and let him with his own
hand apply It to the diamond over his heart and shiver it,
and he will receive the imprint of the Blood Which has
been paid for him. But, if he delays until the time be past,
he has no remedy, because he has not used the dowry

A TREATISE OF DIVINE PROVIDENCE 27

which I gave him, giving him memory so as to remember
my benefits, intellect, so as to see and know the truth,
affection, so that he should love Me, the Eternal Truth,
Whom he would have known through the use of his
intellect. This is the dowry which I have given you all,
and which ought to render fruit to Me, the Father ; but, if
a man barters and sells it to the devil, the devil, if he
choose, has a right to seize on everything that he has
acquired in this life. And, filling his memory with the
delights of sin, and with the recollection of shameful pride,
avarice, self-love, hatred, and unkindness to his neighbours
(being also a persecutor of My servants), with these miseries,
he has obscured his intellect by his disordinate will. Let
such as these receive the eternal pains, with their horrible
stench, inasmuch as they have not satisfied for their sins
with contrition and displeasure of their guilt. Now, there
fore, thou hast understood how suffering satisfies for guilt
by perfect contrition, not through the finite pain ; and such
as have this contrition in perfection satisfy not only for the
guilt, but also for the penalty which follows the guilt, as I
have already said when speaking in general ; and if they
satisfy for the guilt alone, that is, if, having abandoned
mortal sin, they receive grace, and have not sufficient con
trition and love to satisfy for the penalty also, they go to
the pains of Purgatory, passing through the second and
last means of satisfaction.

" So thou seest that satisfaction is made, through the
desire of the soul united to Me, Who am the Infinite Good,
in greater or less degree, according to the measure of love,
obtained by the desire and prayer of the recipient. Where
fore, with that very same measure with which a man measures
to Me, does he receive in himself the measure of My good
ness. Labour, therefore, to increase the fire of thy desire,
and let not a moment pass without crying to Me with
humble voice, or without continual prayers before Me for
thy neighbours. I say this to thee and to the father of
thy soul, whom I have given thee on earth. Bear your
selves with manful courage, and make yourselves dead to
all your own sensuality."

28 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

CHAPTER V.

How very pleasing to God is the willing desire to suffer for Him.

4< VERY pleasing to Me, dearest daughter, is the willing
desire to bear every pain and fatigue, even unto death, for
the salvation of souls, for the more the soul endures, the
more she shows that she loves Me ; loving Me she comes
to know more of My truth, and the more she knows, the
more pain and intolerable grief she feels at the offences
committed against Me. Thou didst ask Me to sustain thee,
and to punish the faults of others in thee, and thou didst
not remark that thou wast really asking for love, light, and
knowledge of the truth, since I have already told thee that,
by the increase of love, grows grief and pain, wherefore he
that grows in love grows in grief. Therefore, I say to you
all, that you should ask, and it will be given you, for I deny
nothing to him who asks of Me in truth. Consider that
the love of divine charity is so closely joined in the soul
with perfect patience, that neither can leave the soul without
the other. For this reason (if the soul elect to love Me)
she should elect to endure pains for Me in whatever mode
or circumstance I may send them to her. Patience cannot
be proved in any other way than by suffering, and patience
is united with love as has been said. Therefore bear your
selves with manly courage, for, unless you do so, you will
not prove yourselves to be spouses of My Truth, and faith
ful children, nor of the company of those who relish the
taste of My honour, and the salvation of souls."

CHAPTER VI.

How every virtue and every defect is obtained by means
of our neighbour.

" I WISH also that thou shouldest know that every vfrtue
is obtained by means of thy neighbour, and likewise, every

A TREATISE OF DIVINE PROVIDENCE 29

defect, he, therefore, who stands in hatred of Me, does an
injury to his neighbour, and to himself, who is his own chief
neighbour, and this injury is both general and particular.
It is general because you are obliged to love your neigh
bour as yourself, and loving him, you ought to help him
spiritually, with prayer, counselling him with words, and
assisting him both spiritually and temporally, according to
the need in which he may be, at least with your goodwill if
you have nothing else. A man therefore, who does not
love, does not help him, and thereby does himself an injury ;,
for he cuts off from himself grace, and injures his neigh
bour, by depriving him of the benefit of the prayers and of
the sweet desires that he is bound to offer for him to Me.
Thus, every act of help that he performs should proceed
from the charity which he has through love of Me. And
every evil also, is done by means of his neighbour, for, if he
do not love Me, he cannot be in charity with his neighbour ;
and thus, all evils derive from the soul s deprivation of love
of Me and her neighbour ; whence, inasmuch as such a man
does no good, it follows that he must do evil. To whom
does he evil ? First of all to himself, and then to his-
neighbour, not against Me, for no evil can touch Me, except
in so far as I count done to Me that which he does to
himself. To himself he does the injury of sin, which
deprives him of grace, and worse than this he cannot do to
his neighbour. Him he injures in not paying him the debt r
which he owes him, of love, with which he ought to help
him by means of prayer and holy desire offered to Me for
him. This is an assistance which is owed in general to
every rational creature ; but its usefulness is more particular
when it is done to those who are close at hand, under your
eyes, as to whom, I say, you are all obliged to help one
another by word and doctrine, and the example of good
works, and in every other respect in which your neighbour
may be seen to be in need ; counselling him exactly as you-
would yourselves, without any passion of self-love ; and he
(a man not loving God) does not do this, because he has no
love towards his neighbour; and, by not doing it, he does
him, as thou seest, a special injury. And he does him evil,.

30 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

not only by not doing him the good that he might do him,
but by doing him a positive injury and a constant evil. In
this way sin causes a physical and a mental injury. The
mental injury is already done when the sinner has conceived
pleasure in the idea of sin, and hatred of virtue, that is,
pleasure from sensual self-love, which has deprived him of
the affection of love which he ought to have towards Me,
.and his neighbour, as has been said. And, after he has
conceived, he brings forth one sin after another against his
neighbour, according to the diverse ways which may please his
perverse sensual will. Sometimes it is seen that he brings
forth cruelty, and that both in general and in particular.

" His general cruelty is to see himself and other creatures
in danger of death and damnation through privation of
grace, and so cruel is he that he reminds neither himself nor
others of the love of virtue and hatred of vice. Being thus
cruel he may wish to extend his cruelty still further, that is,
not content with not giving an example of virtue, the villain
also usurps the office of the demons, tempting, according to
his power, his fellow-creatures to abandon virtue for vice ;
this is cruelty towards his neighbours, for he makes himself
an instrument to destroy life and to give death. Cruelty
towards the body has its origin in cupidity, which, not only
prevents a man from helping his neighbour, but causes him
-to seize the goods of others, robbing the poor creatures ;
sometimes this is done by the arbitrary use of power, and
at other times by cheating and fraud, his neighbour being
forced to redeem, to his own loss, his own goods, and often
indeed his own person.

" Oh, miserable vice of cruelty, which will deprive the
man who practises it of all mercy, unless he turn to kind
ness and benevolence towards his neighbour !

" Sometimes the sinner brings forth insults on which
often follows murder ; sometimes also impurity against the
person of his neighbour, by which he becomes a brute beast
full of stench, and in this case he does not poison one only,
but whoever approaches him, with love or in conversation, is
poisoned.

" Against whom does pride bring forth evils ? Against

A TREATISE OF DIVINE PROVIDENCE 31

the neighbour, through love of one s own reputation, whence
comes hatred of the neighbour, reputing one s self to be
greater than he ; and in this way is injury done to him.
And if a man be in a position of authority, he produces also
injustice and cruelty and becomes a retailer of the flesh of
men. Oh, dearest daughter, grieve for the offence against
Me, and weep over these corpses, so that, by prayer, the
bands of their death may be loosened !

" See now, that, in all places and in all kinds of people,
sin is always produced against the neighbour, and through
his medium ; in no other way could sin ever be committed
either secret or open. A secret sin is when you deprive
your neighbour of that which you ought to give him ; an
open sin is where you perform positive acts of sin, as I
have related to thee. It is, therefore, indeed the truth that
every sin done against Me, is done through the medium of
the neighbour."

CHAPTER VII.

How virtues are accomplished by means of our neighbour, and how
it is that virtues differ to such an extent in creatures.

i( I HAVE told thee how all sins are accomplished by means
of thy neighbour, through the principles which I exposed to
thee, that is, because men are deprived of the affection of
love, which gives light to every virtue. In the same way
self-love, which destroys charity and affection towards the
neighbour, is the principle and foundation of every evil.
All scandals, hatred, cruelty, and every sort of trouble
proceed from this perverse root of self-love, which has
poisoned the entire world, and weakened the mystical body
of the Holy Church, and the universal body of the believers
in the Christian religion ; and, therefore, I said to thee, that
it was in the neighbour, that is to say in the love of him,
that all virtues were founded ; and, truly indeed did I say
to thee, that charity gives life to all the virtues, because no

32 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

virtue can be obtained without charity, which is the pure
love of Me.

" Wherefore, when the soul knows herself, as we have said
above, she finds humility and hatred of her own sensual
passion, for, she learns the perverse law, which is bound up
in her members, and which ever fights against the spirit.
And, therefore, arising with hatred of her own sensuality,,
crushing it under the heel of reason, with great earnestness,
she discovers in herself the bounty of My goodness,
through the many benefits which she has received from Me,
all of which she considers again in herself. She attributes
to Me, through humility, the knowledge which she has
obtained of herself, knowing that, by My grace, I have
drawn her out of darkness and lifted her up into the light
of true knowledge. When she has recognised My good
ness, she loves it without any medium, and yet at the same
time with a medium, that is to say, without the medium of
herself or of any advantage accruing to herself, and with
the medium of virtue, which she has conceived through love
of Me, because she sees that, in no other way, can she
become grateful and acceptable to Me, but by conceiving,
hatred of sin and love of virtue ; and, when she has thus
conceived by the affection of love, she immediately is
delivered of fruit for her neighbour, because, in no other
way, can she act out the truth she has conceived in herself,
but, loving Me in truth, in the same truth she serves her
neighbour.

" And it cannot be otherwise, because love of Me and of
her neighbour are one and the same thing, and, so far as
the soul loves Me, she loves her neighbour, because love
towards him issues from Me. This is the means which 1
have given you, that you may exercise and prove your
virtue therewith ; because, inasmuch as you can do Me no-
profit, you should do it to your neighbour. This proves
that you possess Me by grace in your soul, producing much
fruit for your neighbour and making prayers to Me, seeking*
with sweet and amorous desire My honour and the salva-
. tion of souls. The soul, enamoured of My truth, never
ceases to serve the whole world in general, and more or

A TREATISE OF DIVINE PROVIDENCE 33

less in a particular case according to the disposition of the
recipient and the ardent desire of the donor, as I have
shown above, when I declared to thee that the endurance of
suffering alone, without desire, was not sufficient to punish
a fault.

" When she has discovered the advantage of this unitive
love in Me, by means of which, she truly loves herself,
extending her desire for the salvation of the whole world,
thus coming to the aid of its neediness, she strives,
inasmuch as she has done good to herself by the conception
of virtue, from which she has drawn the life of grace, to fix
her eye on the needs of her neighbour in particular.
Wherefore, when she has discovered, through the affection
of love, the state of all rational creatures in general, she
helps those who are at hand, according to the various graces
which I have entrusted to her to administer ; one she helps
with doctrine, that is, with words, giving sincere counsel
without any respect of persons, another with the example
of a good life, and this indeed all give to their neighbour,
the edification of a holy and honourable life. These are
the virtues, and many others, too many to enumerate, which
are brought forth in the love of the neighbour; but, although
I have given them in such a different way, that is to say
not all to one, but to one, one virtue, and to another,
another, it so happens that it is impossible to have one,
without having them all, because all the virtues are bound
together. Wherefore, learn, that, in many cases I give one
virtue, to be as it were the chief of the others, that is to
say, to one I will give principally love, to another justice, to
another humility, to one a lively faith, to another prudence
or temperance, or patience, to another fortitude. These, and
many other virtues, I place, indifferently, in the souls of many
creatures ; it happens, therefore, that the particular one so
placed in the soul becomes the principal object of its virtue;
the soul disposing herself, for her chief conversation, to this
rather than to other virtues, and, by the effect of this virtue,
the soul draws to herself all the other virtues, which, as has
been said, are all bound together in the affection of love ;
and so with many gifts and graces of virtue, and not only

c

34 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

in the case of spiritual things but also of temporal. I use
the word temporal for the things necessary to the physical
life of man ; all these I have given indifferently, and I have
not placed them all in one soul, in order that man should,
perforce, have material for love of his fellow. I could easily
have created men possessed of all that they should need
both for body and soul, but I wish that one should have
need of the other, and that they should be My ministers to
administer the graces and the gifts that they have received
from Me. Whether man will or no, he cannot help making
an act of love. It is true, however, that that act, unless
made through love of Me, profits him nothing so far as
grace is concerned. See then, that I have made men My
ministers, and placed them in diverse stations and various
ranks, in order that they may make use of the virtue of love.
" Wherefore, I show you that in My house are many
mansions, and that I wish for no other thing than love, for
in the love of Me is fulfilled and completed the love of the
neighbour, and the law observed. For he, only, can be of
use in his state of life, who is bound to Me with this love."

CHAPTER VIII.

How virtues are proved and fortified by their contraries.

"Up to the present, I have taught thee how a man may
serve his neighbour, and manifest, by that service, the love
which he has towards Me.

" Now I wish to tell thee further, that a man proves his
patience on his neighbour, when he receives injuries from
him.

" Similarly, he proves his humility on a proud man,
his faith on an infidel, his true hope on one who despairs,
his justice on the unjust, his kindness on the cruel,
his gentleness and benignity on the irascible. Good men
produce and prove all their virtues on their neighbour,
just as perverse men all their vices; thus, if thou con-

A TREATISE OF DIVINE PROVIDENCE 35

sider well, humility is proved on pride in this way. The
humble man extinguishes pride, because a proud man
can do no harm to a humble one ; neither can the infidelity
of a wicked man, who neither loves Me, nor hopes in Me,
when brought forth against one who is faithful to Me, do
him any harm ; his infidelity does not diminish the faith
or the hope of him who has conceived his faith and hope
through love of Me, it rather fortifies it, and proves it in
the love he feels for his neighbour. For, he sees that the
infidel is unfaithful, because he is without hope in Me, and
in My servant, because he does not love Me, placing his
faith and hope rather in his own sensuality, which is all
that he loves. My faithful servant does not leave him
because he does not faithfully love Me, or because he does
not constantly seek, with hope in Me, for his salvation,
inasmuch as he sees clearly the causes of his infidelity and
lack of hope. The virtue of faith is proved in these and
other ways. Wherefore, to those, who need the proof of it,
My servant proves his faith in himself and in his neighbour,
and so, justice is not diminished by the wicked man s
injustice, but is rather proved, that is to say, the
justice of a just man. Similarly, the virtues of patience,
benignity, and kindness manifest themselves in a time of
wrath by the same sweet patience in My servants, and
envy, vexation and hatred demonstrate their love, and
hunger and desire for the salvation of souls. I say, also,
to thee, that, not only is virtue proved in those who render
good for evil, but, that many times a good man gives back
fiery coals of love, which dispel the hatred and rancour
of heart of the angry, and so from hatred often comes
benevolence, and that this is by virtue of the love and
perfect patience which is in him, who sustains the anger of
the wicked, bearing and supporting his defects. If thou wilt
observe the virtues of fortitude and perseverance, these
virtues are proved by the long endurance of the injuries
and detractions of wicked men, who, whether by injuries or
by flattery, constantly endeavour to turn a man aside from
following the road and the doctrine of truth. Wherefore,
in all these things, the virtue of fortitude conceived within

36 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

the soul, perseveres with strength, and, in addition proves
itself externally upon the neighbour, as I have said to thee ;
and, if fortitude were not able to make that good proof of
itself, being tested by many contrarieties, it would not be a
serious virtue founded in truth."

CHAPTER IX.

A TREATISE OF DISCRETION

How the affection should not place reliance chiefly on penance, but
rather on virtues ; and how discretion receives life from humility,
and renders to each man his due.

" THESE are the holy and sweet works which I seek from
My servants ; these are the proved intrinsic virtues of the
soul, as I have told thee. They not only consist of those
virtues which are done by means of the body, that is, with
an exterior act, or with diverse and varied penances, which
are the instruments of virtue ; works of penance per
formed alone without the above-mentioned virtues would
please Me little ; often, indeed, if the soul perform not her
penance with discretion, that is to say, if her affection be
placed principally in the penance she has undertaken, her
perfection will be impeded ; she should rather place reliance
on the affection of love, with a holy hatred of herself,
accompanied by true humility and perfect patience, together
with the other intrinsic virtues of the soul, with hunger and
desire for My honour and the salvation of souls. For
these virtues demonstrate that the will is dead, and con
tinually slays its own sensuality through the affection of
love of virtue. With this discretion, then, should the soul
perform her penance, that is, she should place her principal
affection in virtue rather than in penance. Penance should
be but the means to increase virtue according to the needs
of the individual, and according to what the soul sees she
can do in the measure of her own possibility. Otherwise,
if the soul place her foundation on penance she will con-

A TREATISE OF DISCRETION 37

taminate her own perfection, because her penance will not
be done in the light of knowledge of herself and of My
goodness, with discretion, and she will not seize hold of My
truth ; neither loving that which I love, nor hating that
which I hate. This virtue of discretion is no other than a
true knowledge which the soul should have of herself and
of Me, and in this knowledge is virtue rooted. Discretion
is the only child of self-knowledge, and, wedding with charity,
has indeed many other descendants, as a tree which has
many branches ; but that which gives life to the tree, to its
branches, and its root, is the ground of humility, in which it
is planted, which humility is the foster-mother and nurse
of charity, by whose means this tree remains in the perpetual
calm of discretion. Because otherwise the tree would not
produce the virtue of discretion, or any fruit of life, if it
were not planted in the virtue of humility, because humility
proceeds from self-knowledge. And I have already said to
thee, that the root of discretion is a real knowledge of self
and of My goodness, by which the soul immediately, and
discreetly, renders to each one his due. Chiefly to Me in
rendering praise and glory to My Name, and in referring to
Me the graces and the gifts which she sees and knows she
has received from Me ; and rendering to herself that which
she sees herself to have merited, knowing that she does not
even exist of herself, and attributing to Me, and not to
herself, her being, which she knows she has received by
grace from Me, and every other grace which she has received
besides.

" And she seems to herself to be ungrateful for so many
benefits, and negligent, in that she has not made the most
of her time, and the graces she has received, and so seems
to herself worthy of suffering ; wherefore she becomes odious
and displeasing to herself through her guilt. And this
founds the virtue of discretion on knowledge of self, that is
on true humility, for, were this humility not in the soul, the
soul would be indiscreet, indiscretion being founded on
pride, as discretion is on humility.

" An indiscreet soul robs Me of the honour due to Me, and
attributes it to herself, through vain glory, and that which is

38 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

really her own she imputes to Me, grieving and murmuring
concerning My mysteries, with which I work in her soul and
in those of My other creatures ; wherefore everything in Me
and in her neighbour is cause of scandal to her. Contrari
wise those who possess the virtue of discretion. For, when
they have rendered what is due to Me and to themselves,
they proceed to render to their neighbour their principal
debt of love, and of humble and continuous prayer, which
all should pay to each other, and further, the debt of doctrine,
and example of a holy and honourable life, counselling and
helping others according to their needs for salvation, as I
said to thee above. Whatever rank a man be in, whether that
of a noble, a prelate, or a servant, if he have this virtue, every
thing that he does to his neighbour is done discreetly and
lovingly, because these virtues are bound and mingled
together, and both planted in the ground of humility which
proceeds from self-knowledge."

CHAPTER X.

A parable showing how love, humility, and discretion are united ;
and how the soul should conform herself to this parable.

" DOST thou know how these three virtues stand together ?
It is, as if a circle were drawn on the surface of the earth,
and a tree, with an off-shoot joined to its side, grew in the
centre of the circle. The tree is nourished in the earth
contained in the diameter of the circle, for if the tree were
out of the earth it would die, and give no fruit. Now,
consider, in the same way, that the soul is a tree existing
by love, and that it can live by nothing else than love ;
and, that if this soul have not in very truth the divine love
of perfect charity, she cannot produce fruit of life, but only
of death. It is necessary then, that the root of this tree,
that is the affection of the soul, should grow in, and issue
from the circle of true self-knowledge which is contained in
Me, Who have neither beginning nor end, like the circum-

A TREATISE OF DISCRETION 39

ference of the circle, for, turn as thou wilt within a circle,
inasmuch as the circumference has neither end nor begin
ning, thou always remainest within it.

" This knowledge of thyself and of Me is found in the
earth of true humility, which is as wide as the diameter of
the circle, that is as the knowledge of self and of Me, (for,
otherwise, the circle would not be without end and beginning,
but would have its beginning in knowledge of self, and its
end in confusion, if this knowledge were not contained in
Me). Then the tree of love feeds itself on humility,
bringing forth from its side the off-shoot of true discretion,
in the way that I have already told thee, from the heart of
the tree, that is the affection of love which is in the soul,
and the patience, which proves that I am in the soul and
the soul in Me. This tree then, so sweetly planted, pro
duces fragrant blossoms of virtue, with many scents of
great variety, inasmuch as the soul renders fruit of grace
and of utility to her neighbour, according to the zeal of
those who come to receive fruit from My servants ; and to
Me she renders the sweet odour of glory and praise to My
Name, and so fulfils the object of her creation.

" In this way, therefore, she reaches the term of her being,
that is Myself, her God, Who am Eternal Life. And these
fruits cannot be taken from her without her will, inasmuch
as they are all flavoured with discretion, because they are
all united, as has been said above."

CHAPTER XI.

How penance and other corporal exercises are to be taken as instru
ments for arriving at virtue, and not as the principal affection of
the soul ; and of the light of discretion in various other modes
and operations.

" THESE are the fruits and the works which I seek from the
soul, the proving, namely, of virtue in the time of need.
And yet some time ago, if thou remember, when thou wert
desirous of doing great penance for My sake, asking, * What

40 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

can I do to endure suffering for Thee, oh Lord ? I replied
to thee, speaking in thy mind, I take delight in few words
and many works/ I wished to show thee that he who
merely calls on me with the sound of words, saying : t Lord
Lord, I would do something for Thee, and he, who desires
for My sake to mortify his body with many penances, and
not his own will, did not give Me much pleasure ; but that
I desired the manifold works of manly endurance with
patience, together with the other virtues, which I have
mentioned to thee above, intrinsic to the soul, all of which
must be in activity in order to obtain fruits worthy of
grace. All other works, founded on any other principle
than this, I judge to be a mere calling with words, because
they are finite works, and I, Who am Infinite, seek infinite
works, that is an infinite perfection of love.

" I wish therefore that the works of penance, and of other
corporal exercises, should be observed merely as means, and
not as the fundamental affection of the soul. For, if the
principal affection of the soul were placed in penance, I
should receive a finite thing like a word, which, when it has
issued from the mouth, is no more, unless it have issued
with affection of the soul, which conceives and brings forth
virtue in truth ; that is, unless the finite operation, which I
have called a word, should be joined with the affection or
love, in which case it would be grateful and pleasant to Me.
And this is because such a work would not be alone, but
accompanied by true discretion, using corporal works as
means, and not as the principal foundation ; for it would
not be becoming that that principal foundation should be
placed in penance only, or in any exterior corporal act,
such works being finite, since they are done in finite time,
and also because it is often profitable that the creature omit
them, and even that she be made to do so.

" Wherefore, when the soul omits them through necessity,
being unable through various circumstances to complete an
action which she has begun, or, as may frequently happen,
through obedience at the order of her director, it is well ;
since, if she continued then to do them, she not only would
receive no merit, but would offend Me ; thus thou seest

A TREATISE OF DISCRETION 41

that they are merely finite. She ought, therefore, to adopt
them as a means, and not as an end. For, if she takes
them as an end she will be obliged, some time or other, to
leave them, and will then remain empty. This, My trumpeter,
the glorious Paul, taught you when he said in his epistle,
that you should mortify the body and destroy self-will,
knowing, that is to say, how to keep the rein on the body,
macerating the flesh whenever it should wish to combat the
spirit, but the will should be dead and annihilated in every
thing, and subject to My will, and this slaying of the will
is that due which, as I told thee, the virtue of discretion
renders to the soul, that is to say, hatred and disgust of her
own offences and sensuality, which are acquired by self-
knowledge. This is the knife which slays and cuts off all
self-love founded in self-will. These then are they who
give Me not only words but manifold works, and in these I
take delight. And then I said that I desired few words,
and many actions ; by the use of the word many I assign no
particular number to thee, because the affection of the soul,
founded in love, which gives life to all the virtues and good
works, should increase infinitely, and yet I do not, by this,
exclude words, I merely said that I wished few of them,
showing thee that every actual operation, as such, was finite,
and therefore I called them of little account ; but they
please Me when they are performed as the instruments of
virtue, and not as a principal end in themselves.

" However, no one should judge that he has greater perfec
tion, because he performs great penances, and gives himself
in excess to the slaying of his body, than he who does less,
inasmuch as neither virtue nor merit consists therein ; for
otherwise he would be in an evil case, who, from some
legitimate reason, was unable to do actual penance. Merit
consists in the virtue of love alone, flavoured with the light
of true discretion, without which the soul is worth nothing.
And this love should be directed to Me endlessly, bound
lessly, since I am the Supreme and Eternal Truth. The
soul can therefore place neither laws nor limits to her love
for Me ; but her love for her neighbour, on the contrary, is
ordered in certain conditions. The light of discretion

42 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

(which proceeds from love, as I have told thee) gives to
the neighbour a conditioned love, one that, being ordered
aright, does not cause the injury of sin to self in order to
be useful to others, for, if one single sin were committed to
save the whole world from Hell, or to obtain one great
virtue, the motive would not be a rightly ordered or dis
creet love, but rather indiscreet, for it is not lawful to
perform even one act of great virtue and profit to others,
by means of the guilt of sin. Holy discretion ordains that
the soul should direct all her powers to My service with a
manly zeal, and, that she should love her neighbour with
such devotion that she would lay down a thousand times,
if it were possible, the life of her body for the salvation of
souls, enduring pains and torments so that her neighbour
may have the life of grace, and giving her temporal sub
stance for the profit and relief of his body.

" This is the supreme office of discretion which proceeds
from charity. So thou seest how discreetly every soul, who
wishes for grace, should pay her debts, that is, should love
Me with an infinite love and without measure, but her
neighbour with measure, with a restricted love, as I have
said, not doing herself the injury of sin in order to be
useful to others. This is St. Paul s counsel to thee when
he says that charity ought to be concerned first with self,
otherwise it will never be of perfect utility to others.
Because, when perfection is not in the soul, everything which
the soul does for itself and for others is imperfect. It
would not, therefore, be just that creatures, who are finite
and created by Me, should be saved through offence done to
Me, Who am the Infinite Good. The more serious the fault is
in such a case, the less fruit will the action produce ; there
fore, in no way, shouldest thou ever incur the guilt of sin.

" And this true love knows well, because she carries with
herself the light of holy discretion, that light which dissipates
all darkness, takes away ignorance, and is the condiment of
every instrument of virtue. Holy discretion is a prudence
which cannot be cheated, a fortitude which cannot be beaten,
a perseverance from end to end, stretching from Heaven to
earth, that is, from knowledge of Me to knowledge of self,

A TREATISE OF DISCRETION 43

and from love of Me to love of others. And the soul
escapes dangers by her true humility, and, by her prudence,
flies all the nets of the world and, its creatures, and, with
unarmed hands, that is through much endurance, discomfits
the devil and the flesh with this sweet and glorious light ;
knowing, by it, her own fragility, she renders to her weakness
its due of hatred.

" Wherefore she has trampled on the world, and placed it
under the feet of her affection, despising it, and holding it
vile, and thus becoming lord of it, holding it as folly. And
the men of the world cannot take her virtues from such a
soul, but all their persecutions increase her virtues and
prove them, which virtues have been at first conceived by
the virtue of love, as has been said, and then are proved on
her neighbour, and bring forth their fruit on him. Thus have
I shown thee, that, if virtue were not visible and did not
shine in the time of trial, it would not have been truly
conceived ; for, I have already told thee, that perfect virtue
cannot exist and give fruit except by means of the neigh
bour, even as a woman, who has conceived a child, if she
do not bring it forth, so that it may appear before the eyes
of men, deprives her husband of his fame of paternity. It
is the same with Me, Who am the Spouse of the soul, if
she do not produce the child of virtue, in the love of her
neighbour, showing her child to him who is in need, both in
general and in particular, as I have said to thee before, so
I declare now that, in truth, she has not conceived virtue at
all; and this is also true of the vices, all of which are
committed by means of the neighbour."

CHAPTER XII.

A repetition of several things already said, and how God promises
refreshments to His servants, and the reformation of the Holy
Church, together with the means of much endurance.

" Now thou seest that I, the Truth, have spoken truth to
thee, and have given thee the doctrine by which thou mayest

44 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

attain and preserve great perfection ; and I have also
declared to thee, in what way satisfaction is made, both for
the guilt and the penalty, in thyself and in thy neighbour,
saying to thee that the sufferings sustained by the creature,
while in the mortal body, are not, of themselves, a sufficient
expiation for the fault and the pain due to it, unless they
are combined with the affection of love, and true contrition
and displeasure of sin ; for, when suffering is combined
with love it satisfies, not by virtue of the actual suffering
endured, but by virtue of the love and the grief for sin
committed, which love is obtained by the light of the
intellect, with a pure and generous heart gazing at Me, as
its object, Who am Love itself. All this I have shown thee
because thou didst ask Me if thou couldest suffer for My
glory. And I have shown this to thee, in order that thou
and My other servants may know how you should sacrifice
yourselves to me. In your sacrifice, I say, both act and
thought should be united ; as a vessel which is presented to
the Lord, is united with the water it contains, for the water
could not be presented without the vessel, and the vessel
would not be pleasing to Him if it did not contain the water.
, So I say to you, that you ought to offer to Me the vessel of
> many fatiguing actions, in whatever way I send them to
you, choosing, after your own fashion, neither place, nor
time, nor actions. Therefore the vessel should be full,
that is, you should endure all those fatigues, with affection
of love and true patience, supporting the defects of
your neighbour, with hatred and displeasure of sin. If you
do so, these labours which I have given you become a
grateful vessel, full of the water of My grace which gives
life to the soul, and then I receive this gift from My sweet
spouses, that is from every soul who serves Me well. I
receive her anxieties, her desires, her tears, her humble
sighs, and her continual prayers ; all which things are a
means, by which, through love, I appease My wrath against
My enemies, the men of iniquity who so greatly offend Me.
So, endure manfully, even unto death, and this will be a sign
to Me that you love Me ; and you should not turn your
faces away and look askance at the plough, through fear of any

A TREATISE OF DISCRETION 45

creature or of any tribulation, rather, in such tribulations
should you rejoice. The world rejoices in doing you many
injuries, and you are saddened on account of the injuries
done in the world, and the offences which you see done
against yourselves, which offend both you and Me, because
I have become one thing with you. Thou seest truly, that
I, having originally given you My image and similitude, and
you, having lost My grace through sin, in order to restore
to you that life of grace, I united My nature to you, covering
it with the veil of your humanity, and thus, while you, by
creation, possessed My image, I took your image in taking
the human form. I am therefore one thing with you, if
indeed the soul do not leave Me through the guilt of mortal
sin ; but he, who loves Me, remains in Me, and I in him, and
yet the world persecutes him, because the world has no
conformity with Me, and, in the same way, persecuted My
only begotten Son, even to the shameful death of the Cross.
It does the same to you, it persecutes, and will persecute
you, even unto death, because it loves Me not, for if, the
world had loved Me, it would also have loved you ; but
rejoice, because your joy will be great in Heaven. I also
say to thee that, as the mystical body of the Church abounds
now in tribulation, so shall it one day abound all the more
in sweetness, and consolation, and this shall be its sweetness
the reformation produced by holy and good pastors, who
are flowers of glory ; for they render glory and praise to
My Name, rendering to Me the sweet odours of virtues
founded on truth. The reformation concerns those odori
ferous flowers, My ministers and pastors, not the fruit of My
spouse, which never needs to be reformed, because it neither
diminishes nor is hurt by the defects of My ministers.

" So do thou rejoice, and the spiritual father of thy soul,
and My other servants, in the bitterness of your sorrow,
because, in My Eternal Truth, I have promised to give you
refreshment, and after your sorrow I will give you most
sustaining consolation, with much substance in the reforma
tion of the Holy Church."

46 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

CHAPTER XIII.

How this soul grew by means of the divine response, and how her
sorrows grew less, and how she prayed to God for the Holy
Church, and for her own people.

" THEN that soul, thirsting and burning with the very great
desire that she had conceived on learning the ineffable love
of God, shewn in His great goodness, and, seeing the breadth
of His charity, that, with such sweetness, He had deigned to
reply to her request and to satisfy it, giving hope to the
sorrow which she had conceived, on account of offences
against God, and the damage of the Holy church, and
through His own mercy, which she saw through self-know
ledge, diminished, and yet, at the same time, increased her
sorrow.

" For, the Supreme and Eternal Father, in manifesting the
way of perfection, showed her anew her own guilt, and the
loss of souls, as has been said more fully above. Also
because in the knowledge which the soul obtains of herself,
she knows more of God, and knowing the goodness of God
in herself, the sweet mirror of God, she knows her own
dignity and indignity. Her dignity is that of her creation,
seeing that she is the image of God, and this has been given
her by grace, and not as her due. In that same mirror of the
goodness of God, the soul knows her own indignity, which
is the consequence of her own fault. Wherefore, as a man
more readily sees spots on his face when he looks in a
mirror, so, the soul who, with true knowledge of self, rises
with desire, and gazes with the eye of the intellect at herself
in the sweet mirror of God, knows better the stains of her
own face, by the purity which she sees in Him.

"Wherefore, because light and knowledge increased in that
soul in the aforesaid way, a sweet sorrow grew in her, and
at the same time, her sorrow was diminished by the hope
which the Supreme Truth gave her, and, as fire grows when
it is fed with wood, so grew the fire in that soul to such an
extent that it was no longer possible for the body to endure

A TREATISE OF DISCRETION 47

it without the departure of the soul ; so that, had she not
been surrounded by the strength of Him who is the Supreme
Strength, it would not have been possible for her to have
lived any longer. This soul then, being purified by the fire
of divine love, which she found in the knowledge of herself
and of God, and her hunger for the salvation of the whole
world, and for the reformation of the Holy Church, having
grown with her hope of obtaining the same, rose with con
fidence before the Supreme Father, showing Him the leprosy
of the Holy Church, and the misery of the world, saying,^
as if with the words of Moses. " My Lord, turn the eyes
of Thy mercy upon Thy people, and upon the mystical
body of the Holy Church, for Thou wilt be the more glori
fied if Thou pardonest so many creatures, and givest to
them the light of knowledge, since all will render Thee praise
when they see themselves escape through Thy infinite good
ness from the clouds of mortal sin, and from eternal damna
tion ; and then Thou wilt not only be praised by my
wretched self, who have so much offended Thee, and who
am the cause and the instrument of all this evil, for which
reason I pray Thy divine and eternal love to take Thy
revenge on me, and to do mercy to Thy people, and never
will I depart from before Thy presence until I see that thou
grantest them mercy. For what is it to me if I have life,
and Thy people death, and the clouds of darkness cover Thy
spouse, when it is my own sins, and not those of Thy other
creatures, that are the principal cause of this ? I desire,
then, and beg of Thee, by Thy grace, that Thou have mercy
on Thy people, and I adjure Thee that Thou do this by Thy
uncreated love which moved Thee Thyself to create man in
Thy image and similitude, saying, Let us make man in our
own image, and this Thou didst, oh eternal Trinity, that
man might participate in everything belonging to Thee, the /
most high and eternal Trinity."

" Wherefore Thou gavest him memory in order to re
ceive Thy benefits, by which he participates in the power of
the Eternal Father ; and intellect that he might know, see
ing Thy goodness, and so might participate in the wisdom of
Thine only-begotten Son ; and will, that he might love that

48 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

which his intellect has seen and known of Thy truth, thus
participating in the clemency of Thy Holy Spirit. What
reason hadst Thou for creating man in such dignity? The
inestimable love with which Thou sawest Thy creature in
Thyself, and didst become enamoured of him, for Thou
didst create him through love, and didst destine him to be
such that he might taste and enjoy Thy Eternal Good. I
see therefore that through his sin he lost this dignity in
which Thou didst originally place him, and by his rebellion
against Thee, fell into a state of war with Thy kindness,
that is to say, we all became Thy enemies.

"Therefore, Thou, moved by that same fire of love with
which Thou didst create him, didst willingly give man a
means of reconciliation, so that after the great rebellion into
which he had fallen, there should come a great peace ; and
so Thou didst give him the only-begotten Word, Thy Son
to be the Mediator between us and Thee. He was our
Justice, for He took on Himself all our offences and in
justices, and performed Thy obedience, Eternal Father,
which Thou didst impose on Him, when Thou didst clothe
Him with our humanity, our human nature and likeness.
Oh, abyss of love ! What heart can help breaking when it
sees such dignity as Thine descend to such lowliness as our
humanity ? We are Thy image, and Thou hast become
ours, by this union which Thou hast accomplished with man,
veiling the Eternal Deity with the cloud of woe, and the
corrupted clay of Adam. For what reason ? Love.
Wherefore, Thou, O God, hast become man, and man has
become God. By this ineffable love of Thine, therefore, I
constrain Thee, and implore Thee that Thou do mercy ta
Thy creatures."

A TREATISE OF DISCRETION 49

CHAPTER XIV.

How God grieves over the Christian people, and particularly over
His ministers ; and touches on the subject of the Sacrament of
Christ s Body, and the benefit of the Incarnation.

THEN God, turning the eye of His mercy towards her,
allowing Himself to be constrained by her tears, and bound
by the chain of her holy desire, replied with lamentation
" My sweetest daughter, thy tears constrain Me, because
they are joined with My love, and fall for love of Me, and
thy painful desires force Me to answer thee ; but marvel, and
see how My spouse has defiled her face, and become leprous,
on account of her filthiness and self-love, and swollen
with the pride and avarice of those who feed on their
own sin.

"What I say of the universal body and the mystical body
of the Holy Church (that is to say the Christian religion)
I also say of My ministers, who stand and feed at the
breasts of Holy Church ; and, not only should they feed
themselves, but it is also their duty to feed and hold to
those breasts the universal body of Christian people, and
also any other people who should wish to leave the darkness
of their infidelity, and bind themselves as members to My
Church. See then with what ignorance and darkness, and
ingratitude, are administered, and with what filthy hands
are handled this glorious milk and blood of My spouse, and
with what presumption and irreverence they are received.
Wherefore, that which really gives life, often gives, through
the defects of those who receive it, death ; that is to say,
the precious Blood of My only-begotten Son, which destroyed
death and darkness, and gave life and truth, and confounded
falsehood. For I give this Blood and use It for salvation
and perfection in the case of that man who disposes himself
properly to receive it, for It gives life and adorns the soul
with every grace, in proportion to the disposition and affec
tion of him who receives It ; similarly It gives death to him
who receives It unworthily, living in iniquity and in the

D

50 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

darkness of mortal sin ; to him, I say, It gives death and not
life ; not through defect of the Blood, nor through defect of
the minister, though there might be great evil in him,
because his evil would not spoil nor defile the Blood nor
diminish Its grace and virtue, nor does an evil minister
do harm to him to whom he gives the Blood, but to
himself he does the harm of guilt, which will be followed by
punishment, unless he correct himself with contrition and
repentance. I say then that the Blood does harm to him
who receives it unworthily, not through defect of the Blood,
nor of the minister, but through his own evil disposition
and defect inasmuch as he has befouled his mind and body
with such impurity and misery, and has been so cruel to
himself and his neighbour. He has used cruelty to himself,
depriving himself of grace, trampling under the feet of his
affection the fruit of the Blood which he had received in
Holy Baptism, when the stain of original sin was taken from
him by virtue of the Blood, which stain he drew from
his origin, when he was generated by his father and
mother.

" Wherefore I gave My Word, My only-begotten Son,
because the whole stuff of human generation was corrupted
through the sin of the first man Adam. Wherefore, all of
you, vessels made of this stuff, were corrupted and not
disposed to the possession of eternal life so I, with My
dignity, joined Myself to the baseness of your human
generation, in order to restore it to grace which you had
lost by sin ; for I was incapable of suffering, and yet, on
account of guilt, My divine justice demanded suffering.
But man was not sufficient to satisfy it, for, even if he had
satisfied to a certain extent, he could only have satisfied for
himself, and not for other rational creatures, besides which,
neither for himself, nor for others, could man satisfy, his sin
having been committed against Me, who am the Infinite
Good. Wishing, however, to restore man, who was en
feebled, and could not satisfy for the above reason, I sent
My Word, My own Son, clothed in your own very nature,
the corrupted clay of Adam, in order that He might endure
suffering in that self-same nature in which man had offended,

A TREATISE OF DISCRETION 51

suffering in His body even to the opprobrious death of the
Cross, and so He satisfied My justice and My divine mercy.
For My mercy willed to make satisfaction for the sin of man
and to dispose him to that good for which I had created
him. This human nature, joined with the divine nature,
was sufficient to satisfy for the whole human race, not only
on account of the pain which it sustained in its finite
nature, that is in the flesh of Adam, but by virtue of the
Eternal Deity, the divine and infinite nature joined to it.
The two natures being thus joined together, I received and
accepted the sacrifice of My only-begotten Son, kneaded into
one dough with the divine nature, by the fire of divine love
which was the fetter which held him fastened and nailed to
the Cross in this way. Thus human nature was sufficient
to satisfy for guilt, but only by virtue of the divine nature.
And in this way was destroyed the stain of Adam s sin,
only the mark of it remaining behind, that is an inclination
to sin, and to every sort of corporeal defect, like the cicatrice
which remains when a man is healed of a wound. In this
way the original fault of Adam was able still to cause a
fatal stain ; wherefore the coming of the great Physician,
that is to say, of My only-begotten Son, cured this invalid,
He drinking this bitter medicine, which man could not
drink on account of his great weakness, like a foster-
mother who takes medicine instead of her suckling, because
she is grown up and strong, and the child is not fit to
endure its bitterness. He was man s foster-mother, en
during, with the greatness and strength of the Deity united
with your nature, the bitter medicine of the painful death
of the Cross, to give life to you little ones debilitated by
guilt. I say therefore that the mark alone of original sin
remains, which sin you take from your father and your
mother when you are generated by them. But this mark
is removed from the soul, though not altogether, by Holy
Baptism, which has the virtue of communicating the life of
grace by means of that glorious and precious Blood. Where
fore, at the moment that the soul receives Holy Baptism,
original sin is taken away from her, and grace is infused
into her, and that inclination to sin, which remains from

52 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

the original corruption, as has been said, is indeed a source
of weakness, but the soul can keep the bridle on it if she
choose. Then the vessel of the soul is disposed to receive
and increase in herself grace, more or less, according as it
pleases her to dispose herself willingly with affection, and
desire of loving and serving Me ; and, in the same way, she
can dispose herself to evil as to good, in spite of her having
received grace in Holy Baptism. Wherefore when the time
of discretion is come, the soul can, by her free will, make
choice either of good or evil, according as it pleases her
will ; and so great is this liberty that man has, and so strong
has this liberty been made by virtue of this glorious Blood,
that no demon or creature can constrain him to one smallest
fault without his free consent. He has been redeemed from
slavery, and made free in order that he might govern his
own sensuality, and obtain the end for which he was created.
Oh, miserable man, who delights to remain in the mud
like a brute, and does not learn this great benefit which he
has received from Me ! A benefit so great, that the poor
wretched creature full of such ignorance could receive no
greater."

CHAPTER XV.

How sin is more gravely punished after the Passion of Christ than
before ; and how God promises to do mercy to the world, and to
the Holy Church, by means of the prayers and sufferings of His
servants.

" AND I wish thee to know, My daughter, that, although I
have re-created and restored to the life of grace, the human
race, through the Blood of My only-begotten Son, as I have
said, men are not grateful, but, going from bad to worse,
and from guilt to guilt, even persecuting Me with many
injuries, taking so little account of the graces which I have
given them, and continue to give them, that, not only do
they not attribute what they have received to grace, but
seem to themselves on occasion to receive injuries from Me,
as if I desired anything else than their sanctification.

A TREATISE OF DISCRETION 53

" I say to thee that they will be more hard-hearted, and
worthy of more punishment, and will, indeed, be punished
more severely, now that they have received redemption in
the Blood of My Son, than they would have been before
that redemption took place that is, before the stain of
Adam s sin had been taken away. It is right that he
who receives more should render more, and should be
under greater obligations to Him from whom he receives
more.

" Man, then, was closely bound to Me through his being
which I had given him, creating him in My own image and
similitude; for which reason, he was bound to render Me
glory, but he deprived Me of it, and wished to give it to
himself. Thus he came to transgress My obedience im
posed on him, and became My enemy. And I, with My
humility, destroyed his pride, humiliating the divine na
ture, and taking your humanity, and, freeing you from the
service of the devil, I made you free. And, not only did I
give you liberty, but, if you examine, you will see that man
has become God, and God has become man, through the
union of the divine with the human nature. This is the
debt which they have incurred that is to say, the treasure
of the Blood, by which they have been procreated to grace.
See, therefore, how much more they owe after the redemp
tion than before. For they are now obliged to render Me
glory and praise by following in the steps of My Incarnate
Word, My only-begotten Son, for then they repay Me the
debt of love both of Myself and of their neighbour, with
true and genuine virtue, as I have said to thee above, and
if they do not do it, the greater their debt, the greater will
be the offence they fall into, and therefore, by divine justice,
the greater their suffering in eternal damnation.

"A false Christian is punished more than a pagan, and the
deathless fire of divine justice consumes him more, that is,
afflicts him more, and, in his affliction, he feels himself being
consumed by the worm of conscience, though, in truth, he is
not consumed, because the damned do not lose their being
through any torment which they receive. Wherefore I say
to thee, that they ask for death and cannot have it, for they

54 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

cannot lose their being ; the existence of grace they lose,
through their fault, but not their natural existence. There
fore guilt is more gravely punished after the Redemption ol
the Blood than before, because man received more ; but
sinners neither seem to perceive this, nor to pay any atten
tion to their own sins, and so become My enemies, though
I have reconciled them, by means of the Blood of My Son.
But there is a remedy with which I appease My wrath
that is to say, by means of My servants, if they are jealous
to constrain Me by their desire. Thou seest, therefore, that
thou hast bound Me with this bond which I have given
thee, because I wished to do mercy to the world.

" Therefore I give My servants hunger and desire for My
honour, and the salvation of souls, so that, constrained by
their tears, I may mitigate the fury of My divine justice.
Take, therefore, thy tears and thy sweat, drawn from the
fountain of My divine love, and, with them, wash the face of
My spouse.

" I promise thee, that, by this means, her beauty will be
restored to her, not by the knife nor by cruelty, but peace
fully, by humble and continued prayer, by the sweat and
the tears shed by the fiery desire of My servants, and thus
will I fulfil thy desire if thou, on thy part, endure much,
casting the light of thy patience into the darkness of per
verse man, not fearing the world s persecutions, for I will
protect thee, and My Providence shall never fail thee in the
slightest need."

CHAPTER XVI.

How this soul, knowing the Divine Goodness, did not remain content
to pray only for Christians, but prayed in general for the whole
world.

THEN that soul (rising on the wings of greater knowledge,
and standing before the Divine Majesty with very great joy
and comfort, both through the hope which she had received
of the Divine Mercy, and the ineffable love which she had

A TREATISE OF DISCRETION 55

tasted, seeing that God, on account of His love and desire
to do mercy to men, in spite of their being His enemies,
had given the means and the way to His servants to con
strain His own goodness, and appease His anger), rejoiced,
losing all fear of the persecutions of the world, seeing that
God was on her side, and the fire of her holy desire grew
greatly, so that she could not remain content, but, with
holy confidence, begged for mercy for the whole world. And
although in this, her second prayer, she asked for the good
and profit of Christians and of the faithful, that is to say
for the reformation of Holy Church, nevertheless, in her
hunger, she spread her prayer over the whole world, as if
the world itself caused her to pray, crying " Oh, Eternal
God ! Give mercy to Thy lambs, like the Good Shepherd
that Thou art. Do not delay Thy mercy to the world,
because it seems to be hardly able to exist any longer
without it, but to be entirely deprived of the union of love
with Thee, the Eternal Truth, and men seem equally
deprived of love towards each other, for they do not love
each other with a love founded in Thee."

CHAPTER XVII.

How God laments over His rational creatures, principally on account
of the self-love which reigns in them; strengthening the above
mentioned soul for greater efforts of prayer and tears.

THEN God, all inflamed with love for our salvation, took
means to light up a greater love and a greater grief in that
soul, showing, in the following way, with what love He had
created man, of which something has been said above.

And He said : " Dost thou not see how every man
persecutes Me, and yet I have created him with such a fire
of love, and given him grace and mercy, infinite gifts,
through My free grace and not of his own due. See then,
My daughter, with how many and diverse sins they persecute
Me, and especially with their miserable self-love, from which

56 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

proceeds every evil. With this self-love, they have poisoned
the whole world, for, just as the love of Me contains in itself
every virtue brought forth upon their neighbour, as I have
shown thee, so sensual self-love, since it proceeds from
pride (and love of Me proceeds from charity), contains in
itself every evil ; and these evils they perform by means of
creatures, being separated and divided from love of their
neighbour, since, not loving Me, they do not love him either;
for these two loves are joined together, and therefore I said
to thee above, that all good and all evil was done by means
of the neighbour. I have therefore much to grieve over
in man, who from Me has received nothing but good, and
yet renders Me hatred, working every sort of iniquity.
This I have said to thee, in order that, through the tears of
My servants, I might mitigate My wrath. Therefore do
you, My servants, prepare yourselves before Me with many
prayers and anxious desires, and with grief for the sin
which is done against Me and for the damnation of souls.
And so will you mitigate the wrath of Divine Justice."

CHAPTER XVIII.

How no man can escape from the hands of God, for God visits
him either in Mercy or in Justice.

AND know, My dearest daughter, that no one can escape
from My hands, for I Am Who Am, and you are not in
yourselves, but only in so far as you act through Me, Who
am the Creator of all things which share the gift of being,
except sin which is nothing, and therefore not made by Me,
and, inasmuch as it is not found in Me, it is not worthy of
being loved. For this reason the creature sins and offends,
because she loves that which she ought not to love, namely
sin, and hates Me, whom she is obliged and bound to love,
because I am the Supreme Good, and have given her being
with such fire of love. Outside of Me souls cannot go,
because they are either in Me through justice for their

A TREATISE OF DISCRETION 57

sins, or through mercy. Open thou the eye of thine
intellect to gaze into My hand, and thou wilt see that the
truth is as I have said to thee."

Then she, lifting her eyes, in obedience to the Supreme
Father, saw, clenched in the hollow of His hand, the whole
universe, and God said to her : " My daughter, see now
and learn that no one can be taken from Me ; for all who
are here, are here through justice, or through mercy, as I
have said, for they are Mine, and created by Me, and I love
them ineffably ; and yet, in spite of their iniquity, I will do
them mercy, by means of My servants, and will grant the
petition which, with such grief and love, thou hast asked of
Me."

CHAPTER XIX.

How this soul, growing in amorous heat, yearned to sweat blood ;
and, accusing herself, made a particular prayer for the spiritual
father of her soul.

THEN that soul, as if dumb and beside herself through the
increasing fire of her holy desire, remained both blessed and
sorrowful.

She was blessed through the union which she had with
God, tasting joy and goodness, being wholly immersed in
His mercy. And she was sorrowful, seeing such goodness
offended ; and she rendered thanks to the Divine Majesty,
knowing that God had manifested to her the defects of His
creatures, in order that she should be constrained to exert
herself with greater desire and anxiety for their salvation,
and this feeling for souls was so renewed in her, and this
holy and amorous fire grew to such a pitch, that she desired
that the sweat of water, cast out of her, by the violence
done to her body by her soul, should be a sweat of blood.
She thus sweated, through the force and heat of love,
because the union which her soul had with God was more
perfect than the union of her soul with her body ; but she
despised it through the great desire which she had to see a

58 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

sweat of blood issue from her body, saying to herself:
" Oh, my soul ! thou hast lost all the time of thy life, and
yet so many evils and troubles have come upon the world,
and the Holy Church, both in general and in particular ;
and I will, therefore, that thou bear remedy to these evils
with a sweat of blood."

In truth this soul had well taken to heart the doctrine
which the Truth had taught her, namely, ever to know her
self and the goodness of God in her, and the remedy with
which she should try and heal the whole world, and appease
the wrath of God and His divine justice, that is, humble,
continuous and holy prayer.

Then, this soul, cast prone by holy desire, arose, opening
far wider the eye of the intellect, gazing on herself in the
divine love, when she saw and tasted how we~are bound
by love to seek the glory and the praise of God in the
salvation of souls.

And she saw the servants of God to be called to this, and
that the Eternal Truth particularly called and elected the
spiritual father of her soul. This spiritual father she
carried before the Divine Goodness, praying that It would
shed on him a ray of grace, so that he might truly follow
the Truth Itself.

CHAPTER XX.

How, without enduring tribulations with patience, it is impossible to
please God ; and how God comforts her and her spiritual father
to endure with true patience.

THEN God, replying to her third petition (namely, the prayer
of her hunger for the salvation of the spiritual father of her
soul), said :

" Daughter, this is what I wish him to seek, namely,
to please Me, the Truth, in the hunger which he has for
the salvation of souls with all solicitude. But this he could
not have, neither he, nor thou, nor any one else, without
many troubles, as I said to thee above, according to the

A TREATISE OF DISCRETION 59

measure in which I give them you. Wherefore, if thou
desire to see My honour, in the Holy Church, thou oughtest
so to love as to wish to endure with true patience ; and, by
this, I shall see that he and thou and My other servants
seek My honour in truth. Then he will become My
dearest son, and will repose himself and others upon the
breast of My only-begotten Son, whom I have made the
Bridge by which you may all arrive at your end, and
receive the fruit of all your labours which you have
endured for the love of Me. Bear yourselves then man
fully."

CHAPTER XXL

How the road to Heaven being broken through the disobedience ot
Adam, God made of his Son a Bridge by which man could pass.

WHEREFORE I have told thee that I have made a Bridge
of My Word, of My only-begotten Son, and this is the
truth. I wish that you, My children, should know that
the road was broken by the sin and disobedience of Adam,
in such a way, that no one could arrive at Eternal Life.
Wherefore men did not render Me glory in the way in
which they ought to have, as they did not participate in that
Good for which I had created them, and My truth was not
fulfilled. This truth is that I have created man to My
own image and similitude, in order that he might have
Eternal Life, and might partake of Me, and taste My
supreme and eternal sweetness and goodness. But, after
sin had closed Heaven and bolted the doors of mercy, the
soul of man produced thorns and prickly brambles, and
My creature found in himself rebellion against himself.

" And the flesh immediately began to war against the
Spirit, and, losing the state of innocency, became a foul
animal, and all created things rebelled against man, whereas
they would have been obedient to him, had he remained in
the state in which I had placed him. He, not remaining
therein, transgressed My obedience, and merited eternal

6o THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

death in soul and body. And, as soon as he had sinned, a
tempestuous flood arose, which ever buffets him with its
waves, bringing him weariness and trouble from himself,
the devil, and the world. Every one was drowned in the
flood, because no one, with his own justice alone, could
arrive at Eternal Life. And so, wishing to remedy your
great evils, I have given you the Bridge of My Son, in
order that, passing across the flood, you may not be
drowned, which flood is the tempestuous sea of this dark
life. See, therefore, under what obligations the creature is
to Me, and how ignorant he is, not to take the remedy
which I have offered, but to be willing to drown."

CHAPTER XXII.

How God induces the soul to look at the greatness of this Bridge,
inasmuch as it reaches from earth to Heaven.

" OPEN, my daughter, the eye of thy intellect, and thou wilt
see the accepted and the ignorant, the imperfect, and also
the perfect who follow Me in truth, so that thou mayest
grieve over the damnation of the ignorant, and rejoice over
the perfection of My beloved servants.

" Thou wilt see further how those bear themselves who
walk in the light, and those who walk in the darkness. I
also wish thee to look at the Bridge of My only begotten
Son, and see the greatness thereof, for it reaches from
Heaven to earth, that is, that the earth of your humanity is
ioined to the greatness of the Deity thereby. I say then
that this Bridge reaches from Heaven to earth, and con
stitutes the union which I have made with man.

This was necessary, in order to reform the road which
was broken, as I said to thee, in order that man should
pass through the bitterness of the world, and arrive at life ;
but the Bridge could not be made of earth sufficiently large
to span the flood and give you Eternal Life, because the
earth of human nature was not sufficient to satisfy for guilt,

A TREATISE OF DISCRETION 61

to remove the stain of Adam s sin. Which stain corrupted
the whole human race and gave out a stench, as I have
said to thee above. It was, therefore, necessary to join
human nature with the height of My nature, the Eternal
Deity, so that it might be sufficient to satisfy for the whole
human race, so that human nature should sustain the
punishment, and that the Divine nature, united with the
human, should make acceptable the sacrifice of My only
Son, offered to Me to take death from you and to give you life.
" So the height of the Divinity, humbled to the earth,
and joined with your humanity, made the Bridge and
reformed the road. Why was this done ? In order that
man might come to his true happiness with the angels.
And observe, that it is not enough, in order that you should
have life, that My Son should have made you this Bridge,
unless you walk thereon."

CHAPTER XXIII.

How we are all labourers of God in the vineyard of the Holy
Church ; and how each man has his own vine ; and how we all
must be united in the Son of God, the True Vine.

AT this point the Eternal Truth proceeded to show her that,
though He had created us without ourselves, He would not
save us without ourselves. Wherefore He wishes us to use
our free will by our own unfettered choice, passing our time
in the exercise of true virtues, and so continuing from point
to point. The Eternal Truth added, "You must all walk
across this Bridge, seeking the glory and praise of My
Name in the salvation of souls, enduring with patient
suffering your many fatigues, following the footsteps of this
sweet and amorous Word ; for in no other way can you
arrive at Me, and you are My labourers, set to work in the
vineyard of the Holy Church. You labour in the universal
body of the Christian religion, placed there by My Grace,
having received from Me the light of Holy Baptism, which

62 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

has incorporated you into the mystical body of Holy
Church, at the hands of My ministers, whom I have placed
to labour at your side. You are placed in the universal
body of the Church, and they are placed in her mystical
body to feed your souls, ministering to you the Blood in
the Sacraments which you receive from the Church, their
task being to extract the thorns of mortal sin, and to plant
in you the seed of grace. They are my labourers in the
vine of your soul, grafted upon the vine of the Holy
Church. And every rational creature has her own vine,
that is the vine of her soul ; she labours this vine by means
of her will and free choice in time, that is to say, while she
lives, but when the time is past she can do no more work,
neither good nor evil, but only while she lives can she till
the vine in which I have placed her.

" And she has received such strength for this labour of her
soul that neither the devil nor any other creature can take
it from her without her consent ; for she was strengthened
in the reception of Holy Baptism, and there was given her
then a pruning-knife with the blades of love of virtue and
hatred of sin, through which very same love, and hatred of
sin, My only-begotten Son died, giving you His Blood by
which you have life in Holy Baptism. So you have the
knife which you should use, by your own free choice, while
you have the time, to cut out the thorns of mortal sins and
plant the virtues, because in no other way could you receive
the fruit of the Blood from the ministers labouring at My
orders in the Holy Church, of whom I say that they remove
mortal sin from the vine of the soul and give her grace,
showing forth the Blood in the Sacraments which are
ordained in the Church. It is necessary, therefore, that
you should first wash yourselves with true contrition of
heart, and hatred of sin, and love of virtue ; then, indeed,
you will receive the fruit of the Blood, but in no other way
will you be able to receive it, unless you dispose yourselves
for your part, as good branches united to the vine of My
only-begotten Son Who said : ( I am the true vine, and My
Father is the husbandman, and you are the branches" And
this, indeed, is the truth, that I am the Husbandman, for

A TREATISE OF DISCRETION 63

everything that has being has proceeded and proceeds from
Me. My power is inestimable, for by it, I govern the whole
universe, and nothing was ever made or governed without
Me. I am the Husbandman who planted the true Vine of
My only-begotten Son in the earth of your humanity, so
that you, being branches joined to the Vine, may bring forth
fruit. But he who does not bring forth the fruit of holy
actions will be cut off from the Vine, and will wither away.
For, being separated from the Vine, he loses the life of grace
and is cast into eternal fire, even as the branch which
brings forth no fruit is cut off from the Vine and burnt,
being good for nothing else. Such as these, who are cut
off for their offences, and die in the guilt of mortal sin, the
Divine Justice casts into the eternal fire, since they are
good for nothing else. These have not laboured their own
vine, but, on the contrary, have destroyed it, and not only
their own but that of their neighbour ; and yet it seems to
them that they have planted a good strong plant of virtue,
but it has not sprung from the seed of grace, which they
received with the light of Holy Baptism, sharing the Blood
of My Son which was the wine produced by this true Vine.
But they have taken that seed and have cast it as food to
beasts, that is to divers and many sinners, and so they have
trampled it under the feet of their own disordinate lust, and
have ruined themselves and their neighbours ; but My
servants do not so, and you should imitate them, that is, you
should remain calmly united to the true Vine, and then you
will bring forth much fruit, because you will participate in
the sap thereof. And, remaining thus in My Word, you
will remain in Me, because He and I are together one thing.
Remaining in Him, you will follow His teaching, and follow
ing His teachihg, you will participate in the very substance
of His Divine Word, that is, you will participate in My
Eternal Deity, joined to your humanity, leading you on by
a Divine love which intoxicates the soul, and therefore
I said that you share the substance of the Vine.

64 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

CHAPTER XXIV.

How God farms and prunes His vine ; and how each man s vine is
so closely united with his neighbour s, that he cannot either
cultivate or ruin the one without the other.

" DOST thou know how I act in order that My servants may
be united in following the doctrine of My sweet and amor
ous Word ? I prune them in order that they may bring
forth much fruit, and that their fruit may be fit for My table,
and may not remain wild. In the same way a husbandman
prunes and sets in order a good branch of a vine so that it
may make better and more wine; and the branch that brings
forth no fruit, he cuts away and casts into the fire. So I,
the true Husbandman, prune My servants who remain in
Me, with many tribulations, so that they may bring forth
more and better fruit, and that their virtfce may be proved ;
and those that do not bring forth fruit are cut off and cast
into the fire. These, then, are true labourers who cultivate
well their soul, rooting out all self-love, and turning over the
earth of their affection on Me. They nourish and increase
the seed of grace which they received in Holy Baptism, arid
labouring their own vine, labour their neighbour s, for they
cannot labour one without the other. Thou rememberest
that all good and all evil were accomplished by means of the
neighbour. Thus, then, do you become My husbandmen,
proceeding from Me, the Superior and Eternal Husbandman
Who have joined you together, grafting you on the true Vine
by the union which I have made with you. Remember,
then, that all rational creatures have their own vine indeed,
but it is joined directly to their neighbour s vine, so closely
that no one can do good or harm to his neighbour without
doing it to himself, and all of you together make up the
universal vine which is the whole congregation of Christians
who are united in the vine of the mystical body of Holy
Church, from which you draw your life. In which vine
yard is planted the Vine of My only-begotten Son, on
Which you should be grafted ; for, if you are not

A TREATISE OF DISCRETION 65

grafted on Him, you become rebels to the Holy Church, and,
as limbs, cut from the body, which immediately corrupt.

" It is true that, while you have time, you can free your
selves from the stench of sin by true repentance, turning to
My ministers, the husbandmen, who hold the key of the
Wine, that is, of the Blood that issued from His Vine.
Which Blood is so perfectly made that, through no defect of
the minister, can its effect be hindered. The branches are
bound up with the bonds of love, and he who binds them
must do so with true humility, acquired by a true knowledge
of himself and Me. See, then, that I have placed you all
as husbandmen, and now again, I invite you to your labour,
because the world is reaching an evil pass ; and the thorns
are so multiplied in the vineyard that they have crushed out
the seed, so that My vines will bring forth no fruit of grace.
I wish you, then, to be true husbandmen, and with great
zeal to cultivate souls in the mystical body of the Holy
Church, and this, I say, because I wish to do mercy to the
world, for which thou prayest to Me so ardently."

CHAPTER XXV.

How this soul prays God to show her those who cross by the
aforesaid Bridge, and those who do not.

THEN this soul exclaimed with ardent love, " Oh,
inestimable Charity, sweet above all sweetness ! Who
would not be inflamed by such great love ? What heart can
help breaking at such tenderness ? It seems, oh, Abyss of
Charity, as if thou wert mad with love of Thy creature, as if
Thou couldest not live without him, and yet Thou art our
God who hast no need of us, Thy greatness does not
increase through our good, for Thou art unchangeable, and
our evil causes Thee no harm, for Thou art the Supreme
and Eternal Goodness. What moves Thee to do us such
mercy through pure love, and on account of no debt that
Thou owedst us, or need that Thou hadst of us ? We

E

66 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

are rather Thy guilty and malignant debtors. Wherefore,
if I understand aright, Oh, Supreme and Eternal Truth, I
am the thief and Thou hast been punished for me. For I
see Thy Word, Thy Son, fastened and nailed to the Cross,
of which thou hast made me a Bridge, as Thou hast shown
me, Thy miserable servant, for which reason, my heart is
bursting, and yet cannot burst, through the hunger and the
desire which it has conceived towards Thee. I remember,
my Lord, that Thou wast willing to show me who are those
who go by the Bridge and those who do not ; should it
please Thy goodness to manifest this to me, willingly would
I see and hear it."

CHAPTER XXVI.

How this Bridge has three steps, which signify the three states of
the soul ; and how, being lifted on high, yet it is not separated
from the earth ; and how these words are to be understood : " //
I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw all things unto Me"

THEN the Eternal God, to enamour and excite that soul
still more for the salvation of souls, replied to her, and said :
" First, as I have shown thee that for which thou didst
wish, and ask Me, I will now explain to thee the nature of
this Bridge. I have told thee, My daughter, that the Bridge
reaches from Heaven to earth ; this is through the union
which I have made with man, whom I formed of the clay of
the earth. Now learn that this Bridge, My only-begotton
Son, has three steps, of which two were made with the
wood of the most Holy Cross, and the third still retains the
great bitterness He tasted, when He was given gall and
vinegar to drink. In these three steps you will recognise
three states of the soul, which I will explain to thee below.
The feet of the soul, signifying her affection, are the
first step, for the feet carry the body as the affection carries
the soul. Wherefore these pierced Feet are steps by which
thou canst arrive at His Side, Which manifests to thee the
secret of His Heart, because the soul, rising on the steps of

A TREATISE OF DISCRETION 67

her affection, commences to taste the love of His Heart,
gazing into that open Heart of My Son, with the eye of the
intellect, and finds It consumed with ineffable love. I say
consumed, because He does not love you for His own
profit, because you can be of no profit to Him, He being
one and the same thing with Me. Then the soul is filled
with love, seeing herself so much loved. Having passed
the second step, the soul reaches out to the third that is
to the Mouth, where she finds peace from the terrible war
she has been waging with her sin. On the first step, then,
lifting her feet from the affections of the earth, the soul
strips herself of vice ; on the second she fills herself with
love and virtue ; and on the third she tastes peace. So
the Bridge has three steps, in order that, climbing past the
first and the second, you may reach the last, which is lifted
on high, so that the water, running beneath, may not touch
it ; for, in My Son, was no venom of sin. This Bridge is
lifted on high, and yet, at the same time, joined to the earth.
Dost thou know when it was lifted on high ? When My
Son was lifted up on the wood of the most Holy Cross,
the Divine nature remaining joined to the lowliness of the
earth of your humanity.

" For this reason I said to thee that, being lifted on high,
He was not lifted out of the earth, for the Divine nature is
united and kneaded into one thing with it. And there was no
one who could go on the Bridge until It had been lifted on
high, wherefore He said, Si exaltatus fuero a terra omnia
traham ad me ipsum? that is, l If I am lifted on high I will
draw all things to Me. 1 My Goodness, seeing that in no other
way could you be drawn to Me, I sent Him in order that He
should be lifted on high on the wood of the Cross, making of
it an anvil on which My Son, born of human generation,
should be re-made, in order to free you from death, and to re
store you to the life of grace ; wherefore He drew everything
to Himself by this means, namely, by showing the ineffable
love, with which I love you, the heart of man being always
attracted by love. Greater love, then, I could not show
you, than to lay down My life for you; perforce, then,
My Son was treated in this way by love, in order that

68 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

ignorant man should be unable to resist being drawn
to Me.

"In very truth, then, My Son said, that, being lifted on
high, He would draw all things to Him. And this is to be
understood in two ways. Firstly, that, when the heart of man
is drawn by the affection of love, as I have said, it is drawn
together with all the powers of his soul, that is, with the
Memory, the Intellect, and the Will ; now, when these
three powers are harmoniously joined together in My
Name, all the other operations which the man performs,
whether in deed or thought, are pleasing, and joined together
by the effect of love, because love is lifted on high, follow
ing the Sorrowful Crucified One ; so My Truth said Well,
If I am lifted on high, etc., meaning, that if the heart and
the powers of the soul are drawn to Him, all the actions
are also drawn to Him. Secondly, everything has been
created for the service of man, to serve the necessities of
rational creatures, and the rational creature has not been
made for them, but for Me, in order to serve Me with all
his heart, and with all his affection. See, then, that man
being drawn, everything else is drawn with him, because
everything else has been made for him. It was therefore
necessary that the Bridge should be lifted on high, and
have steps, in order that it might be climbed with greater
facility."

CHAPTER XXVII.

How this Bridge is built of stones which signify virtues ; and how
on the Bridge is a hostelry where food is given to the travellers ;
and how he who goes over the Bridge goes to life, while he who
goes under It goes to perdition and death.

THIS Bridge is built of stones, so that, if the rain come, it
may not impede the traveller. Dost thou know what these
stones are ? They are the stones of true and sincere virtues.
These stones were not built into the walls before the Passion
of My Son, and therefore even those who attempted to walk

A TREATISE OF DISCRETION 69

by the road of virtue were prevented from arriving at their
journey s end, because Heaven was not yet unlocked with
the key of the Blood, and the rain of Justice did not let
them pass ; but, after the stones were made, and built up on
the Body of My sweet Son, My Word, of Whom I have
spoken to thee, He, Who was Himself the Bridge, moistened
the mortar for its building with His Blood. That is, His
Blood was united with the mortar of divinity, and with the
fortitude, and the fire of love ; and, by My power, these
stones of the virtues were built into a wall, upon Him as
the foundation, for there is no virtue which has not been
proved in Him, and from Him all virtues have their life.
Wherefore no one can have the virtue given by a life of
grace, but from Him, that is, without following the footsteps
of His doctrine. He has built a wall of the virtues, planting
them as living stones, and cementing them with His Blood,
so that every believer may walk speedily, and without any
servile fear of the rain of Divine justice, for he is sheltered
by the mercy which descended from Heaven in the Incar
nation of this My Son. How was Heaven opened ? With
the key of His Blood ; so thou seest that the Bridge is
walled and roofed with Mercy. His also is the Hostelry
in the Garden of the Holy Church, which keeps and
ministers the Bread of Life, and gives to drink of the Blood,
so that My creatures, journeying on their pilgrimage, may
not, through weariness, faint by the way ; and for this
reason My love has ordained that the Blood and the Body
of My only begotten Son, wholly God and wholly man,
may be ministered to you. The pilgrim, having passed the
Bridge, arrives at the door which is part of the Bridge, at
which all must enter, wherefore He says / am the Way,
the Truth , and the Life, he who follows Me does not walk in
darkness, but in light. And in another place My Truth
says, That no man can come to Me if not by Him] and so
indeed it is. Therefore He says of Himself that He is the
Road, and this is the truth, and I have already shewn thee
that He is a Road in the form of the Bridge. And He
says that He is the Truth, and so He is, because He is
united with Me Who am the Truth, and he who follows

70 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

Him, walks in the Truth, and in Life, because he who
follows this Truth receives the life of grace, and cannot
faint from hunger, because the Truth has become your
food, nor fall in the darkness, because He is light without
any falsehood. And, with that Truth, He confounded and
destroyed the lie that the Devil told to Eve, with which he
broke up the road to Heaven, and the Truth brought the
pieces together again, and cemented them with His Blood.
Wherefore, those who follow this road are the sons of
the Truth, because they follow the Truth, and pass through
the door of Truth and find themselves united to Me, Who
am the Door and the Road and at the same time Infinite
Peace.

But he, who walks not on this road, goes under the
Bridge, in the river where there are no stones, only
water, and since there are no supports in the water, no
one can travel that way without drowning ; thus have come
to pass the sins, and the condition of the world. Where
fore, if the affection is not placed on the stones, but is
placed, with disordinate love, on creatures, loving them, and
being kept by them far from Me, the soul drowns, for
creatures are like water that continually runs past, and man
also passes continually like the river, although it seems ta
him that he stands still and the creatures that he loves
pass by, and yet he is passing himself continually to the
end of his journey death ! And he would fain retain
himself, (that is his life, and the things that he loves,) but he
does not succeed, either, through death, by which he has
to leave them, or, through my disposition, by which these
created things are taken from the sight of My creatures.
Such as these follow a lie, walking on the road of falsehood,
and are sons of the Devil, who is the Father of Lies ; and,
because they pass by the door of falsehood, they receive
eternal damnation. So then thou seest, that I have shown
thee both Truth and Falsehood, that is, My road which is
Truth, and the Devil s which is Falsehood."

A TREATISE OF DISCRETION 71

CHAPTER XXVIII.

How travelling on both of these roads, that is the Bridge and the
River, is fatiguing ; and of the delight which the soul feels in
travelling by the Bridge.

" THESE are the two roads, and both are hard to travel.
Wonder, then, at the ignorance and blindness of man,
who, having a Road made for him, which causes such
delight to those who use It, that every bitterness becomes
sweet, and every burden light, yet prefers to walk over the
water. For those who cross by the Bridge, being still in the
darkness of the body, find light, and, being mortal, find
immortal life, tasting, through love, the light of Eternal
Truth Which promises refreshment to him who wearies him
self for Me, Who am grateful and just, and render to every
man according as he deserves. Wherefore every good
deed is rewarded, and every fault is punished. The tongue
would not be sufficient to relate the delight felt by him
who goes on this road, for, even in this life, he tastes and
participates in that good which has been prepared for him
in eternal life. He, therefore, is a fool indeed, who despises
so great a good, and chooses rather to receive in this life,
the earnest money of Hell, walking by the lower road with
great toil, and without any refreshment or advantage.
Wherefore, through their sins, they are deprived of Me,
Who am the Supreme and Eternal Good. Truly then hast
thou reason for grief, and I will that thou and My other
servants remain in continual bitterness of soul at the offence
done to Me, and in compassion for the ignorant, and the
loss of those who, in their ignorance, thus offend Me. Now
thou hast seen and heard about this Bridge, how it is, and
this I have told thee in order to explain My words, that My
only-begotten Son was a Bridge. And thus, thou seest
that He is the Truth, made in the way that I have shown
thee, that is by the union of height and lowliness,"

72 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

CHAPTER XXIX.

How this Bridge, having reached to Heaven on the day of the
Ascension, did not for that reason leave the earth.

" WHEN My only-begotten Son returned to Me, forty days
after the resurrection, this Bridge, namely Himself, arose
from the earth, that is, from among the conversation of
men, and ascended into Heaven by virtue of the Divine
Nature and sat at the right hand of Me, the Eternal Father,
as the angels said, on the day of the Ascension, to the
disciples, standing like dead men, their hearts lifted on high,
and ascended into Heaven with the wisdom of My Son
f Do not stand here any longer, for He is seated at the right
hand of the Father / When He, then, had thus ascended
on high, and returned to Me the Father, I sent the Master,
that is the Holy Spirit, Who came to you with My power
and the wisdom of My Son, and with His own clemency,
which is the essence of the Holy Spirit. He is one thing
with Me, the Father, and with My Son. And He built up
the road of the doctrine which My Truth had left in
the world. Thus, though the bodily presence of My
Son left you, His doctrine remained, and the virtue of
the stones founded upon this doctrine, which is the way
made for you by this Bridge. For first, He practised this
doctrine and made the road by His actions, giving you His
doctrine by example rather than by words ; for He practised,
first Himself, what He afterwards taught you, then the
clemency of the Holy Spirit made you certain of the
doctrine, fortifying the minds of the disciples to confess the
truth, and to announce this road, that is, the doctrine of
Christ crucified, reproving, by this means, the world of its
injustice and false judgment, of which injustice and false
judgment, I will in time discourse to you at greater
length.

" This much I have said to thee in order that there might
be no cloud of darkness in the mind of your hearers, that
is, that they may know that of this Body of Christ I made

A TREATISE OF DISCRETION 73

a Bridge by the union of the divine with the human nature,
for this is the truth.

"This Bridge, taking its point of departure in you, rose
into Heaven, and was the one road which was taught you
by the example and life of the Truth. What has now
remained of all this, and where is the road to be found ?
I will tell thee, that is, I will rather tell those who might
fall into ignorance on this point. I tell thee that this way
of His doctrine, of which I have spoken to thee, confirmed
by the Apostles, declared by the blood of the martyrs,
illuminated by the light of doctors, confessed by the con
fessors, narrated in all its love by the Evangelists, all of
whom stand as witnesses to confess the Truth, is found in
the mystical body of the Holy Church. These witnesses are
like the light placed on a candlestick, to show forth the way
of the Truth which leads to life with a perfect light, as I
have said to thee, and, as they themselves say to thee, with
proof, since they have proved in their own cases, that every
person may, if he will, be illuminated to know the Truth,
unless he choose to deprive his reason of light by his
inordinate self-love. It is, indeed, the truth that His
doctrine is true, and has remained like a lifeboat to draw
the soul out of the tempestuous sea and to conduct her to
the port of salvation.

" Wherefore, first I gave you the Bridge of My Son living
and conversing in very deed amongst men, and when He,
the living Bridge, left you, there remained the Bridge and
the road of His doctrine, as has been said, His doctrine
being joined with My power and with His wisdom, and
with the clemency of the Holy Spirit. This power of Mine
gives the virtue of fortitude to whoever follows this road,
wisdom gives him light, so that, in this road, he may recognise
the truth, and the Holy Spirit gives him love, which
consumes and takes away all sensitive love out of the soul,
leaving there only the love of virtue. Thus, in both ways,
both actually and through His doctrine, He is the Way,
the Truth, and the Life ; that is, the Bridge which leads you
to the height of Heaven. This is what He meant when
He said, / came from the Father, and I return to the Father ,

74 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

and shall return to you* ; that is to say, My Father sent
Me to you, and made Me your Bridge, so that you might
be saved from the river and attain to life. 1 Then He says,
/ will return to you, I will not leave you orphans, but will
send you the Paraclete as if My Truth should say, I will
go to the Father and return ; that is, that when the Holy
Spirit shall come, who is called the Paraclete, He will show
you more clearly, and will confirm you in the way of truth,
that I have given you. He said that He would return, and
He did return, because the Holy Spirit came not alone, but
with the power of the Father, and the wisdom of the Son,
and the clemency of His own Essence.

" See then how He returns, not in actual flesh and blood,
but, as I have said, building the road of His doctrine,
with His power, which road cannot be destroyed or taken
away from him who wishes to follow it, because it is firm
and stable, and proceeds from Me, Who am immoveable.

" Manfully, then, should you follow this road, without any
cloud of doubt, but with the light of faith which has been
given you as a principle in Holy Baptism.

" Now I have fully shown to you the Bridge as it actually
is, and the doctrine, which is one and the same thing with
it. And I have shown it to the ignorant, in order that they
may see where this road of Truth is, and where stand
those who teach it ; and I have explained that they are the
Apostles, Martyrs, Confessors, Evangelists, and Holy
Doctors, placed like lanterns in the Holy Church.

"And I have shown how My Son, returning to Me, none
the less, returned to you, not in His bodily presence, but by
His power, when the Holy Spirit came upon the disciples,
as I have said. For in his bodily presence He will not
return until the last Day of Judgment, when He will come
again with My Majesty and Divine Power to judge the world,
to render good to the virtuous, and reward them for their
labours, both in body and soul, and to dispense the evil of
eternal death to those who have lived wickedly in the world.

"And now I wish to tell thee that which I, the Truth,
promised thee, that is, to show thee the perfect, the
imperfect, and the supremely perfect ; and the wicked, who,
through their iniquities, drown in the river, attaining to

A TREATISE OF DISCRETION 75

punishment and torment; wherefore I say to you, My
dearest sons, walk over the Bridge, and not underneath it,
because underneath is not the way of truth, but the way
of falsehood, by which walk the wicked, of whom I will
presently speak to you. These are those sinners for whom
I beg you to pray to Me, and for whom I ask in addition
your tears and sweat, in order that they may receive mercy
from Me."

CHAPTER XXX.

How this soul wondering at the mercy of God, relates many gifts
and graces given to the human race.

THEN this soul, as it were, like one intoxicated, could not
contain herself, but, standing before the face of God, ex
claimed, " How great is the Eternal Mercy with which thou
coverest the sins of Thy creatures ! I do not wonder that
Thou sayest of those who abandon mortal sin and return to
Thee, / do not remember that you have ever offended Me. 1
Oh, ineffable Mercy ! I do not wonder that Thou sayest this
to those who are converted, when Thou sayest of those who
persecute Thee, I wish you to pray for such, in order that
I may do them mercy. Oh, Mercy, who proceedest from
thy Eternal Father, the Divinity Who governest with thy
power the whole world, by Thee were we created, in Thee
were we re-created in the Blood of Thy Son. Thy Mercy
preserves us, Thy Mercy caused Thy Son to do battle for
us, hanging by His arms on the wood of the Cross, life and
death battling together ; then life confounded the death of
our sin, and the death of our sin destroyed the bodily life
of the Immaculate Lamb. Which was finally conquered ?
Death ! By what means ? Mercy ! Thy Mercy gives light
and life, by which Thy clemency is known in all Thy crea
tures, both the just and the unjust. In the height of Heaven
Thy Mercy, shines that is, in Thy saints. If I turn to the
earth, it abounds with Thy Mercy. In the darkness of Hell
Thy Mercy shines, for the damned do not receive the pains
they deserve ; with Thy Mercy Thou temperest Justice. By

76 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

Mercy Thou hast washed us in the Blood, and by Mercy
Thou wishest to converse with Thy creatures. Oh, Loving
Madman ! Was it not enough for Thee to become Incarnate,
that Thou must also die ? Was not death enough, that
Thou must also descend into Limbo, taking thence the holy
fathers to fulfil Thy Mercy and Thy Truth in them ?
Because Thy goodness promises a reward to them that
serve Thee in truth, didst Thou descend to Limbo, to with
draw from their pain Thy servants, and give them the fruit
of their labours. Thy Mercy constrains Thee to give even
more to man, namely, to leave Thyself to him in food, so
that we, weak ones, should have comfort, and the ignorant
commemorating Thee, should not lose the memory of Thy
benefits. Wherefore every day Thou givest Thyself to man,
representing Thyself in the Sacrament of the Altar, in the
body of Thy Holy Church. What has done this ? Thy
Mercy. Oh, Divine Mercy ! My heart suffocates in thinking
of thee, for on every side to which I turn my thought, I find
nothing but mercy. Oh, Eternal Father ! Forgive my igno
rance, that I presume thus to chatter to Thee, but the love
of Thy Mercy will be my excuse before the Face of Thy
loving-kindness."

CHAPTER XXXI.

Of the baseness of those who pass by the river under the Bridge ;
and how the soul, that passes underneath, is called by God the
tree of death, whose roots are held in four vices.

AFTER this soul had refreshed a little her heart in the
mercy of God, by these words, she humbly waited for the
fulfilment of the promise made to her, and God continuing
His discourse said: "Dearest daughter, thou hast spoken
before Me of My mercy, because I gave it thee to taste
and to see in the word which I spoke to thee when I said :
these are those for whom I pray you to intercede with Me/
but know, that My mercy is without any comparison, far
more than thou canst see, because thy sight is imperfect,

A TREATISE OF DISCRETION 77

and My mercy perfect and infinite, so that there can be no
comparison between the two, except what may be between
a finite and an infinite thing. But I have wished that thou
shouldest taste this mercy, and also the dignity of man,
which I have shown thee above, so that thou mightest
know better the cruelty of those wicked men who travel
below the Bridge. Open the eye of thy intellect, and
wonder at those who voluntarily drown themselves, and at
the baseness to which they are fallen by their fault, from
which cause, they have first become weak, and this was
when they conceived mortal sin in their minds, for they
then bring it forth, and lose the life of grace. And, as a
corpse which can have no feeling or movement of itself, but
only when it is moved and lifted by others, so those, who
are drowned in the stream of disordinate love of the world,
are dead to grace. Wherefore because they are dead their
memory takes no heed of My mercy. The eye of their
intellect sees not and knows not My Truth, because their
feeling is dead, that is, their intellect has no object
before it but themselves, with the dead love of their own
sensuality, and so their will is dead to My will because it
loves nothing but dead things. These three powers then
being dead, all the soul s operations both in deed and
thought are dead as far as grace is concerned. For the
soul cannot defend herself against her enemies, nor help
herself through her own power, but only so far as she is
helped by Me. It is true indeed, that every time that this
corpse, in whom only free-will has remained, (which remains
as long as the mortal body lives,) asks My help, he can
have it, but never can he help himself; he has become in
supportable to himself, and, wishing to govern the world, is [
governed by that which is not, that is by sin, for sin in
itself is nothing, and such men have become the servants
and slaves of sin. I had made them trees of love with the
life of grace which they received in Holy Baptism ; and
they have become trees of death, because they are dead, as
I have already said to thee. Dost thou know how this
tree finds such roots ? In the height of pride, which is
nourished by their own sensitive self-love. Its branch is

78 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

their own impatience, and its off-shoot indiscretion : these
are the four principal vices which destroy the soul of him
who is a tree of death, because he has not drawn life from
grace. Inside the tree is nourished the worm of conscience,
which, while man lives in mortal sin, is blinded by self-love,
and therefore felt but little ; the fruits of this tree are
mortal, for they have drawn their nourishment, which should
have been humility, from the roots of pride, and the miser
able soul is full of ingratitude, whence proceeds every evil.
But if she were grateful for the benefits she has received,
she would know Me, and knowing Me would know herself,
and so would remain in My love : but she, as if blind, goes
groping down the river, and she does not see that the
water does not support her."

CHAPTER XXXII.

How the fruits of this tree are as diverse as are the sins ; and first,
of the sin of sensuality.

"THE fruits of this death-giving tree, are as diverse as
sins are diverse. See that some of these fruits are the food
of beasts who live impurely, using their body and their mind
like a swine who wallows in mud, for in the same way
they wallow in the mire of sensuality. Oh, ugly soul,
where hast thou left thy dignity ? Thou wast made sister
to the angels, and now thou art become a brute beast. To
such misery come sinners, notwithstanding that they are
sustained by Me, who am Supreme Purity, notwithstanding
that the very devils, whose friends and servants they have
become, cannot endure the sight of such filthy actions.
Neither does any sin, abominable as it may be, take away
the light of the intellect from man, so much as does this
one. This the philosophers knew, not by the light of grace,
because they had it not, but because nature gave them the
light to know that this sin obscured the intellect, and for
that reason they preserved themselves in continence the

A TREATISE OF DISCRETION 79

better to study. Thus also they flung away their riches in
order that the thought of them should not occupy their
heart. Not so does the ignorant and false Christian, who
has lost grace by sin."

CHAPTER XXXIII.

How the fruit of others is avarice ; and of the evils that proceed

from it.

" A FRUIT of the earth belongs to some others, who are
covetous misers, acting like the mole, who always feeds on
earth till death, and when they arrive at death they find no
remedy. Such as these, with their meanness, despise My
generosity, selling time to their neighbour. They are
cruel usurers, and robbers of their neighbour ; because in
their memory they have not the remembrance of My
mercy, for if they had it they would not be cruel to
themselves or to their neighbour ; on the contrary, they
would be compassionate and merciful to themselves,
practising the virtues on their neighbour and succouring
him charitably. Oh, how many are the evils that come
of this cursed sin of avarice, how many homicides and
thefts, and how much pillage with unlawful gain, and
cruelty of heart and injustice ! It kills the soul and makes
her the slave of riches, so that she cares not to observe
My commandments.

" A miser loves no one except for his own profit. Avarice
proceeds from and feeds pride, the one follows from the
other, because the miser always carries with him the thought
of his own reputation, and thus avarice, which is immediately
combined with pride, full of its own opinions, goes on from
bad to worse. It is a fire which always germinates the
smoke of vainglory and vanity of heart, and boasting in that
which does not belong to it. It is a root which has many
branches, and the principal one is that which makes a man
care for his own reputation, from whence proceeds his desire

80 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

to be greater than his neighbour. It also brings forth the
deceitful heart that is neither pure nor liberal, but is double,
making a man show one thing with his tongue, while he has
another in his heart, and making him conceal the truth and
tell lies for his own profit. And it produces envy, which
is a worm that is always gnawing, and does not let the
miser have any happiness out of his own or others good.
How will these wicked ones in so wretched a state give of
their substance to the poor, when they rob others ? How
will they draw their foul soul out of the mire, when
they themselves put it there ? Sometimes even do they
become so brutish, that they do not consider their children
and relations, and cause them to fall with them into great
misery. And, nevertheless, in My mercy I sustain them, I
do not command the earth to swallow them up, that they
may repent of their sins. Would they then give their life
for the salvation of souls, when they will not give their sub
stance ? Would they give their affections when they are
gnawed with envy ? Oh, miserable vices that destroy the
heaven of the soul. Heaven I call her (the soul) because
so I made her, living in her at first by grace, and hiding
Myself within her, and making of her a mansion through
affection of love. Now she has separated herself from Me,
like an adulteress, loving herself, and creatures more than
Me, and has made a god of herself, persecuting Me with
many and diverse sins. And this she does because she
does not consider the benefit of the Blood that was shed
with so great Fire of Love."

CHAPTER XXXIV.

How some others hold positions of authority, and bring forth
fruits of injustice.

" THERE are others who hold their heads high by their
position of authority, and who bear the banner of injustice
using injustice against Me, God, and against their neigh-

A TREATISE OF DISCRETION Si

hour, and against themselves to themselves by not pay
ing the debt of virtue, and towards Me by not paying
the debt of honour in glorifying and praising My Name,
which debt they are bound to pay. But they, like
thieves, steal what is Mine, and give it to the service of
their own sensuality. So that they commit injustice towards
Me and towards themselves, like blind and ignorant men
who do not recognise Me in themselves on account of self-
love, like the Jews and the ministers of the Law who, with
envy and self-love, blinded themselves so that they did not
recognise the Truth, My only-begotten Son, and rendered
not His due to the Eternal Truth, who was amongst them,
as said My Truth : The Kingdom of God is among you?
But they knew it not, because, in the aforesaid way, they
had lost the light of reason, and so they did not pay their
debt of honour and glory to Me, and to Him, who was one
thing with Me, and like blind ones committed injustice, per
secuting Him with much ignominy, even to the death of the
Cross.

"Thus are such as these unjust to themselves, to Me,
and to their neighbour, unjustly selling the flesh of their
dependants, and of any person who falls into their hands."

CHAPTER XXXV.

How through these and through other defects, one falls into false
judgment ; and of the indignity to which one comes.

" BY these and by other sins men fall into false judgment,
as I will explain to you below. They are continually being
scandalised by My works, which are all just, and all per
formed in truth through love and mercy. With this false
judgment, and with the poison of envy and pride, the works
of My Son were slandered and unjustly judged, and with
lies did His enemies say : This man works by virtue
of Beelzebub. 1 Thus wicked men, standing in self-love,
impurity, pride, and avarice, and founded in envy, and in

F

82 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

perverse rashness with impatience, are for ever scandalised
at Me and at My servants, whom they judge to be feignedly
practising the virtues, because their heart is rotten, and,
having spoilt their taste, good things seem evil to them,
and bad things, that is to say disorderly living, seem good
to them. Oh, how blind is the human generation in that
it considers not its own dignity 1 From being great thou
hast become small, from a ruler thou hast become a slave,
and that in the vilest service that can be had, because
thou art the servant and slave of sin, and art become like
unto that which thou dost serve.

" Sin is nothing. Thou, then, hast become nothing; it has
deprived thee of life, and given thee death. This life and
power were given you by the Word, My only-begotten
Son, the glorious Bridge, He drawing you from out of your
servitude when you were servants of the devil, Himself
becoming as a servant to take you out of servitude, imposing
on Himself obedience to do away the disobedience of Adam,
and humbling Himself to the shameful death of the Cross
to confound pride. By His death He destroyed every vice,
so that no one could say that any vice remained that was
not punished and beaten out with pains, as I said to thee
above, when I said that of His Body He had made an anvil.
All the remedies are ready to save men from eternal death,
and they despise the Blood, and have trampled It under the
feet of their disordinate affection ; and it is for this injustice
and false judgment that the world is reproved, and will be
reproved on the Last Day of Judgment.

"This was meant by My Truth when He said: 4 / will
send the Paraclete, who will reprove the world for injustice and
false judgment^ And it was reproved when I sent the Holy
Spirit on the Apostles."

A TREATISE OF DISCRETION 83

CHAPTER XXXVI.

Of the words that Christ said : "/ will send the Holy Spirit, who will
reprove the world of injustice and of false judgment " ; and how one
of these reproofs is continuous.

" THERE are three reproofs. One was given when the
Holy Spirit came upon the disciples, who, as it is said,
being fortified by My power, and illuminated by the wisdom
of My beloved Son, received all in the plenitude of the
Holy Spirit. Then the Holy Spirit, who is one thing
with Me and with My Son, reproved the world by the mouth
of the Apostles, with the doctrine of My Truth. They and
all others, who are descended from them, following the truth
which they understand through the same means, reprove
the world.

" This is that continuous reproof that I make to the world
by means of the Holy Scriptures, and My servants, putting
the Holy Spirit on their tongues to announce My truth,
even as the Devil puts himself on the tongues of his
servants, that is to say, of those who pass through the river
in iniquity. This is that sweet reproof that I have fixed
for ever, in the aforesaid way, out of My most great affection
of love for the salvation of souls. And they cannot say I
had no one who reproved me, because the truth is revealed
to them showing them vice and virtue. And I have made
them see the fruit of virtue, and the hurtfulness of vice, to
give them love and holy fear with hatred of vice and love
of virtue, and this truth has not been shown them by an
angel, so that they cannot say, the angel is a blessed spirit
who cannot offend, and feels not the vexations of the flesh
as we do, neither the heaviness of our body, because the
Incarnate Word of My Truth has been given to them with
your mortal flesh.

11 Who were the others who followed this Word ? Mortal
creatures, susceptible of pain like you, having the same
opposition of the flesh to the Spirit, as had the glorious
Paul, My standard bearer, and many other saints who, by

84 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

one thing or another, have been tormented. Which
torments I permitted for the increase of grace and virtue in
their souls. Thus, they were born in sin like you, and
nourished with a like food, and I am God now as then.
My power is not weakened and cannot become weak. So
that I can and will succour him who wishes to be succoured
by Me. Man wants My succour when he comes out of the
river, and walks by the Bridge, following the doctrine of
My Truth. Thus no one has any excuse, because both
reproof and truth are constantly given to them. Wherefore,
if they do not amend while they have time, they will be
condemned by the second condemnation which will take
place at the extremity of death, when My Justice will cry
to them, Rise, ye dead and come to judgment ! That is to
say, * Thou, who art dead to grace, and hast reached the
moment of thy corporal death, arise and come before the
Supreme Judge with thy injustice and false judgment, and
with the extinguished light of faith which thou didst receive
burning in Holy Baptism (and which thou hast blown out
with the wind of pride), and with the vanity of thy heart,
with which thou didst set thy sails to winds which were
contrary to thy salvation, for with the wind of self-esteem,
didst thou fill the sail of self-love. Thus didst thou hasten
down the stream of the delights and dignities of the world
at thy own will, following thy fragile flesh and the tempta
tions of the devil, who, with the sail of thy own will set,
has led thee along the underway which is a running stream,
and so has brought thee with himself to eternal damnation."

CHAPTER XXXVII.

Of the second reproof of injustice, and of false judgment, in
general and in particular.

11 THIS second reproof, dearest daughter, is indeed a con
demnation, for the soul has arrived at the end, where there
can be no remedy, for she is at the extremity of death,

A TREATISE OF DISCRETION 85

where is the worm of conscience, which I told thee was
blinded self-love. Now at the time of death, since she cannot
get out of My hands, she begins to see, and therefore is
gnawed with remorse, seeing that her own sin has brought
her into so great evil. But if the soul have light to know
and grieve for her fault, not on account of the pain of Hell
that follows upon it, but on account of pain at her offence
against Me, Who am Supreme and Eternal Good, still she
can find mercy. But if she pass the Bridge of death
without light, and alone, with the worm of conscience,
without the hope of the Blood, and bewailing herself more
on account of her first condemnation than on account of
My displeasure, she arrives at eternal damnation. And
then she is reproved cruelly by My Justice of injustice and
of false judgment, and not so much of general injustice and
false judgment which she has practised generally in all her
works, but much more on account of the particular injustice
and false judgment which she practises at the end, in judging
her misery greater than My mercy. This is that sin which
is neither pardoned here nor there, because the soul would
not be pardoned, depreciating My mercy. Therefore is this
last sin graver to Me than all the other sins that the soul
has committed. Wherefore the despair of Judas dis
pleased Me more, and was more grave to My Son than was
his betrayal of Him. So that they are reproved of this
false judgment, which is to have held their sin to be greater
than My mercy, and, on that account, are they punished
with the devils, and eternally tortured with them. And
they are reproved of injustice because they grieve more
over their condemnation than over My displeasure, and do
not render to Me that which is Mine, and to themselves
that which is theirs. For to Me, they ought to render love
and to themselves, bitterness, with contrition of heart, and
offer it to Me, for the offence they have done Me. And
they do the contrary because they give to themselves love,
pitying themselves, and grieving on account of the pain they
expect for their sin ; so thou seest that they are guilty of
injustice and false judgment, and are punished for the one
and the other together. Wherefore, they, having depre-

86 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

ciated My mercy, I with justice send them, with their cruel
servant, sensuality, and the cruel tyrant the Devil, whose
servants they made themselves through their own sensuality,
so that, together, they are punished and tormented, as
together they have offended Me. Tormented, I say, by My
ministering devils whom My judgment has appointed to
torment those who have done evil."

CHAPTER XXXVIII.

Of the four principal torments of the damned, from which follow
all the others ; and particularly of the foulness of the Devil.

" MY daughter, the tongue is not sufficient to narrate the
pain of these poor souls. As there are three principal vices,
namely : self-love, whence proceeds the second, that is
love of reputation, whence proceeds the third, that is pride,
with injustice and cruelty, and with other filthiness and
iniquitous sins, that follow upon these. So I say to thee,
that in Hell, the souls have four principal torments, out of
which proceed all the other torments. The first is, that
they see themselves deprived of the vision of Me, which
is such pain to them, that, were it possible, they would
rather choose the fire, and the tortures and torments,
and to see Me, than to be without the torments and not
to see Me.

" This first pain revives in them, then, the second, the
worm of Conscience, which gnaws unceasingly, seeing that
the soul is deprived of Me, and of the conversation of the
angels, through her sin, made worthy of the conversation
and sight of the devils, which vision of the Devil is the
third pain and redoubles to them their every toil. As the
saints exult in the sight of Me, refreshing themselves with
joyousness in the fruit of their toils borne for Me with such
abundance of love, and displeasure of themselves, so does
the sight of the Devil revive these wretched ones to tor
ments, because in seeing him they know themselves more,

A TREATISE OF DISCRETION 87

that is to say, they know that, by their own sin, they have
made themselves worthy of him. And so the worm of
Conscience gnaws more and more, and the fire of this
Conscience never ceases to burn. And the sight is more
painful to them, because they see him in his own form,
which is so horrible that the heart of man could not imagine
it. And if thou remember well, thou knowest that I showed
him to thee in his own form for a little space of time, hardly
a moment, and thou didst choose (after thou hadst returned
to thyself) rather to walk on a road of fire, even until the
Day of Judgment, than to see him again. With all this that
thou hast seen, even thou dost not know well how horrible
he is, because, by Divine justice, he appears more horrible
to the soul that is deprived of Me, and more or less accord
ing to the gravity of her sin. The fourth torment that they
have is the fire. This fire burns and does not consume, for
the being of the soul cannot be consumed, because it is not a
material thing that fire can consume. But I, by Divine
justice, have permitted the fire to burn them with torments,
so that it torments them, without consuming them, with the
greatest pains in diverse ways according to the diversity of
their sins, to some more, and to some less, according to the
gravity of their fault. Out of these four torments issue all
others, such as cold and heat and gnashing of the teeth
and many others. Now because they did not amend them
selves after the first reproof that they had of injustice
and false judgment, neither in the second, which was that,
in death, they would not hope in Me, nor grieve for the
offence done to Me, but only for their own pain, have they
thus so miserably received Eternal Punishment."

CHAPTER XXXIX.
Of the third reproof which is made on the Day of Judgment.

" Now it remains to tell of the third reproof which is
on the Last Day of Judgment. Already I have told thee

88 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

of two, and now, so that thou mayest see how greatly man
deceives himself, I will tell thee of the third of the
General Judgment, when the pain of the miserable soul is
renewed and increased by the union that the soul will make
with the body, with an intolerable reproof, which will
generate in it confusion and shame. Know that, in the
Last Day of Judgment, when will come the Word My
Son, with My Divine Majesty to reprove the world with
Divine Power, He will not come like a poor one, as when
He was born, coming in the womb of the Virgin, and being
born in a stable amongst the animals, and then dying
between two thieves. Then I concealed My power in Him,
letting Him suffer pain and torment like man, not that My
divine nature was therefore separated from human nature,
but I let him suffer like man to satisfy for your guilt. He
will not come thus in that last moment, but He will come,
with power, to reprove in His Own Person, and will render
to every one his due, and there will be no one in that Day
who will not tremble. To the miserable ones who are
damned, His aspect will cause such torment and terror that
the tongue cannot describe it. To the just it will cause the
fear of reverence with great joy ; not that His face changes,
because He is unchangeable, being one thing with Me
according to the divine nature, and, according to the human
nature, His face was unchangeable, after it took the glory of
the Resurrection. But, to the eye of the damned, it will
appear such, on account of their terrible and darkened
vision, that, as the sun which is so bright, appears all
darkness to the infirm eye, but to the healthy eye light,
(and it is not the defect of the light that makes it appear
other to the blind than to the illuminated one, but the
defect of the eye which is infirm), so will the condemned
ones see His countenance in darkness, in confusion and in
hatred, not through defect of My Divine Majesty, with
which He will come to judge the world, but through their
own defect."

A TREATISE OF DISCRETION 89

CHAPTER XL.

How the damned cannot desire any good.

"AND their hatred is so great that they cannot will or
desire any good, but they continually blaspheme Me. And
dost thou know why they cannot desire good ? Because
the life of man ended, free-will is bound. Wherefore they
cannot merit, having lost, as they have, the time to do so.
If they finish their life, dying in hatred with the guilt of
mortal sin, their souls, by divine justice, remain for ever
bound with the bonds of hatred, and for ever obstinate in
that evil, in which, therefore, being gnawed by themselves,
their pains always increase, especially the pains of those
who have been the cause of damnation to others, as that
rich man, who was damned, demonstrated to you when he
begged the favour that Lazarus might go to his brothers,
who were in the world, to tell them of his pains. This,
certainly, he did not do out of love or compassion for his
brothers, for he was deprived of love and could not desire
good, either for My honour or their salvation, because,
as I have already told thee, the damned souls cannot do
any good to their neighbour, and they blaspheme Me,
because their life ended in hatred of Me and of virtue.
But why then did he do it ? He did it because he was the
eldest, and had nourished them up in the same miseries in
which he had lived, so that he was the cause of their
damnation, and he saw pain increased to himself, on account
of their damnation when they should arrive in torment
together with him, to be gnawed for ever by hatred, because
in hatred they finished their lives."

CHAPTER XLI.

Of the glory of the Blessed.

" SIMILARLY, the just soul, for whom life finishes in the affec
tion of charity and the bonds of love, cannot increase in virtue,

go THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

time having come to nought, but she can always love with
that affection with which she comes to Me, and that measure
that is measured to her. She always desires Me, and loves
Me, and her desire is not in vain being hungry, she is
satisfied, and being satisfied, she has hunger, but the
tediousness of satiety and the pain of hunger are far from
her. In love, the Blessed rejoice in My eternal vision, parti
cipating in that good that I have in Myself, every one
according to his measure, that is that, with that measure of
love, with which they have come to Me, is it measured to them.
Because they have lived in love of Me and of the neighbour,
united together with the general love, and the particular,
which, moreover both proceed from the same love. And
they rejoice and exult, participating in each other s good with
the affection of love, besides the universal good that they
enjoy altogether. And they rejoice and exult with the
angels with whom they are placed, according to their
diverse and various virtues in the world, being all bound in
the bonds of love. And they have a special participation
with those whom they closely loved with particular affection
in the world, with which affection they grew in grace,
increasing virtue, and the one was the occasion to the other
of manifesting the glory and praise of My name, in them
selves and in their neighbour ; and, in the life everlasting,
they have not lost their love, but have it still, participating
closely, with more abundance, the one with the other, their
love being added to the universal good, and I would not
that thou shouldest think that they have this particular
good, of which I have told thee, for themselves alone, for it
is not so, but it is shared by all the proved citizens, My
beloved sons, and all the angels for, when the soul
arrives at eternal life, all participate in the good of that
soul, and the soul in their good. Not that her vessel or
theirs can increase, nor that there be need to fill it, because
it is full, but they have an exultation, a mirth fulness, a
jubilee, a joyousness in themselves, which is refreshed by
the knowledge that they have found in that soul. They
see that, by My mercy, she is raised from the earth with
the plenitude of grace, and therefore they exult in Me in

A TREATISE OF DISCRETION 91

the good of that soul, which good she has received through
My goodness.

" And that soul rejoices in Me, and in the souls, and in
the blessed spirits, seeing and tasting in them the beauty
and the sweetness of My love. And their desires for ever
cry out to Me, for the salvation of the whole world. And
because their life ended in the love of the neighbour, they
have not left it behind, but, with it, they will pass through
the Door, My only-begotten Son in the way that I will
relate to thee. So thou seest that in those bonds of love
in which they finished their life, they go on and remain
eternally. They are conformed so entirely to My will,
that they cannot desire except what I desire, because their
free-will is bound in the bond of love, in such a way that,
time failing them, and, dying in a state of grace, they cannot
sin any more. And their will is so united with Mine, that
a father or a mother seeing their son, or a son seeing his
father or his mother in Hell, do not trouble themselves, and
even are contented to see them punished as My enemies.
Wherefore in nothing do they disagree with Me, and their
desires are all satisfied. The desire of the blessed is to
see My honour in you wayfarers, who are pilgrims, for ever
running on towards the term of death. In their desire for
My honour, they desire your salvation, and always pray to
Me for you, which desire is fulfilled by Me, when you
ignorant ones do not resist My mercy. They have a desire
too, to regain the gifts of their body, but this desire does
not afflict them, as they do not actually feel it, but they
rejoice in tasting the desire, from the certainty they feel of
having it fulfilled. Their desire does not afflict them,
because, though they have it not yet fulfilled, no bliss is
thereby lacking to them. Wherefore they feel not the pain
of desire. And think not, that the bliss of the body after
the resurrection gives more bliss to the soul, for, if this
were so, it would follow that, until they had the body, they
had imperfect bliss, which cannot be, because no perfection
is lacking to them. So it is not the body that gives bliss
to the soul, but the soul will give bliss to the body, because
the soul will give of her abundance, and will re-clothe her-

92 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

self on the Last Day of Judgment, in the garments of her
own flesh which she had quitted. For, as the soul is made
immortal, stayed and stablished in Me, so the body in that
union becomes immortal, and, having lost heaviness, is made
fine and light. Wherefore, know that the glorified body
can pass through a wall, and that neither water nor fire can
injure it, not by virtue of itself, but by virtue of the soul, which
virtue is of Me, given to her by grace, and by the ineffable
love with which I created her in My image and likeness.
The eye of thy intellect is not sufficient to see, nor thy ear
to hear, nor thy tongue to tell of the good of the Blessed.
Oh, how much delight they have in seeing Me, Who am every
good ! Oh, how much delight they will have in being with
the glorified body, though, not having that delight from
now to the general Judgment, they have not, on that
account, pain, because no bliss is lacking to them, the soul
being satisfied in herself, and, as I have told thee, the body
will participate in this bliss.

" I told thee of the happiness which the glorified body
would take in the glorified humanity of My only-begotten
Son, which gives you assurance of your resurrection. There,
they exult in His wounds, which have remained fresh, and
the Scars in His Body are preserved, and continually cry for
mercy for you, to Me, the Supreme and Eternal Father. And
they are all conformed with Him, in joyousness and mirth, and
you will all be conformed with Him, eye with eye, and
hand with hand, and with the whole Body of the sweet
Word My Son, and, dwelling in Me, you will dwell in Him,
because He is one thing with Me. But their bodily eye,
as I told thee, will delight itself in the glorified humanity
of the Word, My only-begotten Son. Why so ? Because
their life finished in the affection of My love, and therefore
will this delight endure for them eternally. Not that they
can work any good, but they rejoice and delight in that
good which they have brought with them, that is, they
cannot do any meritorious act, by which they could merit
anything, because in this life alone can they merit and sin,
according as they please, with free-will.

" These then do not await, with fear, the Divine judgment,

A TREATISE OF DISCRETION 93

but with joy, and the Face of My Son will not seem to
them terrible, or full of hatred, because they finished
their lives in love and affection for Me, and good-will
towards their neighbour. So thou seest then, that the
transformation is not in His Face, when He comes to judge
with My Divine Majesty, but in the vision of those who will be
judged by Him. To the damned He will appear with hatred
and with justice. And to the saved with love and mercy."

CHAPTER XLII.

How, after the General Judgment, the pain of the
damned will increase.

" I HAVE told thee of the dignity of the Righteous, so that
thou mayest the better know the misery of the damned. For
this is another of their pains, namely, the vision of the bliss
of the righteous, which is to them an increase of pain, as,
to the righteous, the damnation of the damned is an in
crease of exultation in My goodness. As light is seen
better near darkness, and darkness near light, so the sight
of the Blessed increases their pain. With pain they await
the Last Day of Judgment, because they see, following it, an
increase of pain to themselves. And so will it be, because
when that terrible voice shall say to them, Arise, ye dead,
and come to judgment/ the soul will return with the
body, in the just to be glorified, and in the damned to be
tortured eternally. And the aspect of My Truth, and of
all the blessed ones will reproach them greatly, and make
them ashamed, and the worm of conscience will gnaw the
pith of the tree, that is the soul, and also the bark out
side, which is the body. They will be reproached by the
Blood that was shed for them, and by the works of mercy,
spiritual and temporal, which I did for them by means of
My Son, and which they should have done for their neigh
bour, as is contained in the Holy Gospel. They will be
reproved for their cruelty towards their neighbour, for their
pride and self-love, for their filthiness and avarice ; and

94 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

when they see the mercy that they have received from
Me, their reproof will seem to be intensified in harshness.
At the time of death, the soul only is reproved, but, at the
General Judgment, the soul is reproved together with the
body, because the body has been the companion and
instrument of the soul to do good and evil according as
the free-will pleased. Every work, good or bad, is done
by means of the body. And, therefore, justly, My daughter,
glory and infinite good are rendered to My elect ones with
their glorified body, rewarding them for the toils they bore
for Me, together with the soul. And to the perverse ones
will be rendered eternal pains by means of their bod}-,
because their body was the instrument of evil. Wherefore,
being their body, restored, their pains will revive and
increase at the aspect of My Son, their miserable
sensuality with its filthiness, in the vision of their nature,
(that is, the humanity of Christ) united with the purity of
My Deity, and of this mass of their Adam nature raised
above all the choirs of Angels, and themselves, by their
own fault, sunk into the depths of Hell. And they will
see generosity and mercy shining in the blessed ones,
who receive the fruit of the Blood of the Lamb, the pains that
they have borne remaining as ornaments on their bodies,
like the dye upon the cloth, not by virtue of the body but
only out of the fulness of the soul, representing in the
body the fruit of its labour, because it was the companion
of the soul in the working of virtue. As in the mirror is
represented the face of the man, so in the body is repre
sented the fruit of bodily toils, in the way that I have told
thee.

"The pain and confusion of the darkened ones, on seeing
so great a dignity (of which they are deprived), will increase,
and in their bodies will appear the sign of the wickedness
they have committed, with pain and torture. And when they
hear that terrible speech, Go t cursed ones, to the Eternal
Fire] the soul and the body will go to be with the Devil
without any remedy or hope each one being wrapped up
in diverse filth of earth, according to his evil works. The
miser with the filth of avarice, wrapping himself up with

A TREATISE OF DISCRETION 95

the worldly substance which he loved disordinately, and
burning in the fire ; the cruel one with cruelty ; the foul
man with foulness and miserable concupiscence ; the un
just with his injustice ; the envious with envy ; and
the hater of his neighbour with hatred. And inordinate
self-love, whence were born all their ills, will be burnt
with intolerable pain, as the head and principle of every
evil, in company with pride. So that body and soul
together will be punished in diverse ways. Thus miserably
do they arrive at their end who go by the lower way, that
is, by the river, not turning back to see their sins and My
Mercy. And they arrive at the Gate of the Lie, because
they follow the doctrine of the Devil, who is the Father of
Lies ; and this Devil is their Door, through which they go
to Eternal Damnation, as has been said, as the elect and
My sons, keeping by the way above, that is by the Bridge,
follow the Way of Truth, and this Truth is the Door, and
therefore said My Truth, No one can go to the Father but
by Me. 1 He is the Door and the Way through Which
they pass to enter the Sea Pacific. It is the contrary
for those who have kept the Way of the Lie, which leads
them to the water of death. And it is to this that the
Devil calls them, and they are as blind and mad, and do
not perceive it, because they have lost the light of faith.
The Devil says, as it were, to them : Whosoever thirsts for
the water of death, let him come and I will give it to him. "

CHAPTER XLIII.

Of the use of temptations, and how every soul in her extremity
sees her final place either of pain or of glory, before she is sepa
rated from the body.

" THE Devil, dearest daughter, is the instrument of My
Justice to torment the souls who have miserably offended
Me. And I have set him in this life to tempt and molest
My creatures, not for My creatures to be conquered, but

g6 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

that they may conquer, proving their virtue, and receive
from Me the glory of victory. And no one should fear any
battle or temptation of the Devil that may come to him,
because I have made My creatures strong, and have given
them strength of will, fortified in the Blood of my Son,
which will, neither Devil nor creature can move, because it
is yours, given by Me. You therefore, with free arbitration,
can hold it or leave it, according as you please. It is an
arm, which, if you place it in the hands of the Devil,
straightway becomes a knife, with which he strikes you and
slays you. But if man do not give this knife of his will
into the hands of the Devil, that is, if he do not consent
to his temptations and molestations, he will never be in
jured by the guilt of sin in any temptation, but will even be
fortified by it, when the eye of his intellect is opened to
see My love which allowed him to be tempted, so as to arrive
at virtue, by being proved. For one does not arrive at
virtue except through knowledge of self, and knowledge of
Me, which knowledge is more perfectly acquired in the
time of temptation, because then man knows himself to be
nothing,being unable to lift off himself the pains and vexations
which he would flee ; and he knows Me in his will, which
is fortified by My goodness, so that it does not yield to
these thoughts. And he has seen that My love permits
these temptations, for the devil is weak, and by himself
can do nothing, unless I allow him. And I let him tempt,
through love, and not through hatred, that you may con
quer, and not that you may be conquered, and that you
may come to a perfect knowledge of yourself, and of Me,
and that virtue may be proved, for it is not proved except
by its contrary. Thou seest, then, that he is My minister
to torture the damned in Hell, and in this life, to exercise
and prove virtue in the soul. Not that it is the intention
of the Devil to prove virtue in you (for he has not love),
but rather to deprive you of it, and this he cannot do, if
you do not wish it. Now thou seest, then, how great is the
foolishness of men in making themselves feeble, when I
have made them strong, and in putting themselves into the
hands of the Devil. Wherefore, know, that at the moment

A TREATISE OF DISCRETION 97

of death, they, having passed their life under the lordship
of the Devil (not that they were forced to do so, for as I
told you they cannot be forced, but they voluntarily put
themselves into his hands), and, arriving at the extremity of
their death under this perverse lordship, they await no other
judgment than that of their own conscience, and desperately,
despairingly, come to eternal damnation. Wherefore Hell,
through their hate, surges up to them in the extremity of
death, and before they get there, they take hold of it, by
means of their lord the Devil. As the righteous, who have
lived in charity and died in love, if they have lived per
fectly in virtue, illuminated with the light of faith, with
perfect hope in the Blood of the Lamb, when the extremity
of death comes, see the good which I have prepared for
them, and embrace it with the arms of love, holding fast
with pressure of love to Me, the Supreme and Eternal Good.
And so they taste eternal life before they have left the
mortal body, that is, before the soul be separated from the
body. Others who have passed their lives, and have
arrived at the last extremity of death with an ordinary
charity, (not in that great perfection), embrace My mercy
with the same light of faith and hope that had those perfect
ones, but, in them, it is imperfect, for, because they were
imperfect, they constrained My mercy, counting My mercy
greater than their sins. The wicked sinners do the con
trary, for, seeing, with desperation, their destination, they
embrace it with hatred, as I told thee. So that neither the
one nor the other waits for judgment, but, in departing this
life, they receive every one their place, as I have told thee,
and they taste it and possess it before they depart from the
body, at the extremity of death the damned with hatred
and with despair, and the perfect ones with love and the
light of faith and with the hope of the Blood. And the
imperfect arrive at the place of Purgatory, with mercy and
the same faith."

98 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

CHAPTER XLIV.

How the Devil gets hold of souls, under pretence of some good : and,
how those are deceived who keep by the river, and not by the
aforesaid Bridge, for, wishing to fly pains, they fall into them ;
and of the vision of a tree, that this soul once had.

41 I HAVE told thee that the Devil invites men to the water of
death, that is, to that which he has, and, blinding them with
the pleasures and conditions of the world, he catches them
with the hook of pleasure, under the pretence of good,
because in no other way could he catch them, for they would
not allow themselves to be caught if they saw that no good or
pleasure to themselves were to be obtained thereby. For the
soul, from her nature, always relishes good, though it is true
that the soul, blinded by self-love, does not know and dis
cern what is true good, and of profit to the soul and to the
body. And, therefore, the Devil, seeing them blinded by
self-love, iniquitously places before them diverse and various
delights, coloured so as to have the appearance of some bene
fit or good ; and he gives to every one according to his con
dition and those principal vices to which he sees him to be
most disposed of one kind to the secular, of another to
the religious, and others to prelates and noblemen, accord
ing to their different conditions. I have told thee this,
because I now speak to thee of those who drown themselves
in the river, and who care for nothing but themselves, to love
themselves to My injury, and I will relate to thee their end.
41 Now I want to show thee how they deceive themselves,
and how, wishing to flee troubles, they fall into them. For,
because it seems to them that following Me, that is, walking
by the way of the Bridge, the Word, My Son, is great toil,
they draw back, fearing the thorn. This is because they are
blinded and do not know or see the Truth, as, thou knowest,
I showed thee in the beginning of thy life, when thou didst
pray Me to have mercy on the world, and draw it out of
the darkness of mortal sin. Thou knowest that I then
showed thee Myself under the figure of a Tree, of

A TREATISE OF DISCRETION 99

which thou sawest neither the beginning nor the end, so
that thou didst not see that the roots were united with the
earth of your humanity. At the foot of the Tree, if thou
rememberest well, there was a certain thorn, from which
thorn all those who love their own sensuality kept
away, and ran to a mountain of Lolla, in which thou
didst figure to thyself all the delights of the world.
That Lolla seemed to be of corn and was not, and, there
fore, as thou didst see, many souls thereon died of hunger,
and many, recognising the deceits of the world, returned to
the Tree and passed the thorn, which is the deliberation of
the will. Which deliberation, before it is made, is a thorn
which appears to man to stand in the way of following
the Truth. And conscience always fights on one side, and
sensuality on the other ; but as soon as he, with hatred and
displeasure of himself, manfully makes up his mind, saying,
1 1 wish to follow Christ crucified, he breaks at once the
thorn, and finds inestimable sweetness, as I showed thee
then, some finding more and some less, according to their
disposition and desire. And thou knowest that then I said to
thee, I am your God, unmoving and unchangeable/ and I do
not draw away from any creature who wants to come to Me.
I have shown them the Truth, making Myself visible to
them, and I have shown them what it is to love anything
without Me. But they, as if blinded by the fog of dis-
ordinate love, know neither Me nor themselves. Thou seest
how deceived they are, choosing rather to die of hunger
than to pass a little thorn. And they cannot escape endur
ing pain, for no one can pass through this life without a
cross, far less those who travel by the lower way. Not
that My servants pass without pain, but their pain is allevi
ated. And because by sin, as I said to thee above the
world germinates thorns and tribulations, and because this
river flows with tempestuous waters, I gave you the Bridge,
so that you might not be drowned.

" 1 have shown thee how they are deceived by a dis-
ordinate fear, and how I am your God, immovable, Who am
not an Acceptor of persons but of holy desire. And this I
have shown thee under the figure of the Tree, as I told thee."

ioo THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

CHAPTER XLV.

How, the world having germinated thorns, who those are whom
they do not harm ; although no one passes .this life without
pain.

" Now I want to show thee to whom the thorns and tribula
tions, that the world germinated through sin, do harm, and to
whom they do not. And as, so far, I have shown thee the
damnation of sinners, together with My goodness, and have
told thee how they are deceived by their own sensuality,
now I wish to tell thee how it is only they themselves who
are injured by the thorns. No one born passes this life
without pain, bodily or mental. Bodily pain My servants
bear, but their minds are free, that is, they do not feel the
weariness of the pain ; for their will is accorded with Mine,
and it is the will that gives trouble to man. Pain of mind
and of body have those, of whom I have narrated to thee,
who, in this life, taste the earnest money of hell, as My
servants taste the earnest money of eternal life. Knowest
thou what is the special good of the blessed ones ? It
is having their desire filled with what they desire ; where
fore desiring Me, they have Me, and taste Me without
any revolt, for they have left the burden of the body, which
was a law that opposed the spirit, and came between it and
the perfect knowledge of the Truth, preventing it from seeing
Me face to face. But after the soul has left the weight of
the body, her desire is full, for, desiring to see Me, she sees
Me, in which vision is her bliss ; and seeing she knows, and
knowing she loves, and loving she tastes Me, Supreme and
Eternal Good, and, in tasting Me, she is satisfied, and her
desire is fulfilled, that is, the desire she had to see and
know Me; wherefore desiring she has, and having she
desires. And as I told thee pain is far from the desire,
and weariness from the satisfaction of it. So thou seest
that My servants are blessed principally in seeing and in
knowing Me, in which vision and knowledge their will is
fulfilled, for they have that which they desired to have, and

A TREATISE OF DISCRETION 101

so are they satisfied. Wherefore I told thee that the
tasting of eternal life consisted especially in having that
which the will desires, and thus being satisfied ; but know
that the will is satisfied in seeing and knowing Me, as I have
told thee. In this life then, they taste the earnest money
of eternal life, tasting the above, with which I have told
thee they will be satisfied.

" But how have they the earnest money in this present
life ? I reply to thee, they have it in seeing My goodness
in themselves, and in the knowledge of My Truth, which
knowledge, the intellect (which is the eye of the soul) illu
minated in Me, possesses. This eye has the pupil of the
most holy faith, which light of faith enables the soul to
discern, to know, and to follow the way and the doctrine of
My Truth the Word Incarnate ; and without this pupil of
faith she would not see, except as a man who has the form
of the eye, but who has covered the pupil (which causes the
eye to see) with a cloth. So the pupil of the intellect is
faith, and if the soul has covered it with the cloth of infi
delity, drawn over it by self-love, she does not see, but only
has the form of the eye without the light, because she has
hidden it. Thus thou seest, that in seeing they know, and
in knowing they love, and in loving they deny and lose
their self-will. Their own will lost, they clothe themselves
in Mine, and I will nothing but your sanctification. At
once they set to, turning their back to the way below, and
begin to ascend by the Bridge, and pass over the thorns,
which do not hurt them, their feet being shod with the
affection of My love. For I told thee that My seivants
suffered corporally but not mentally, because the sensitive
will, which gives pain and afflicts the mind of the creature,
is dead. Wherefore, the will not being there, neither is
there any pain. They bear everything with reverence,
deeming themselves favoured in having tribulation for My
sake, and they desire nothing but what I desire. If I allow
the Devil to trouble them, permitting temptations to prove
them in virtue, as I told thee above, they resist with
their will fortified in Me, humiliating themselves, and deem
ing themselves unworthy of peace and quiet of mind and

102 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

deserving of pain, and so they proceed with cheerfulness and
self-knowledge, without painful affliction. And if tribula
tions on man s account, or infirmity, or poverty, or change
of worldly condition, or loss of children, or of other much
loved creatures (all of which are thorns that the earth pro
duced after sin) come upon them, they endure them all with
the light of reason and holy faith, looking to Me, Who am
the Supreme Good, and Who cannot desire other than good,
for which I permit these tribulations through love, and not
through hatred. And they that love Me recognise this, and,
examining themselves, they see their sins, and understand
by the light of faith, that good must be rewarded and evil
punished. And they see that every little sin merits infinite
pain, because it is against Me, Who am Infinite Good,
wherefore they deem themselves favoured because I wish to
punish them in this life, and in this finite time ; they drive
away sin with contrition of heart, and with perfect patience
do they merit, and their labours are rewarded with infinite
good. Hereafter they know that all labour in this life is
small, on account of the shortness of time. Time is as the
point of a needle and no more ; and, when time has passed
labour is ended, therefore thou seest that the labour is
small. They endure with patience, and the thorns they
pass through do not touch their heart, because their heart
is drawn out of them and united to Me by the affection of
love. It is a good truth then that these do taste eternal
life, receiving the earnest money of it in this life, and that,
though they walk on thorns, they are not pricked, because
as I told thee, they have known My Supreme Goodness, and
sought for it where it was to be found, that is in the Word,
My only begotten Son."

A TREATISE OF DISCRETION 105

CHAPTER XLVI.

Of the evils which proceed from the blindness of the intellect ; and
how good works not done in a state of grace are not profitable
for eternal life.

" I HAVE told thee this, so that thou shouldest know well
how these, of whose delusion I have been speaking to thee,
taste the earnest money of Hell. Now I will tell thee whence
proceeds their delusion, and how they receive that earnest
money. They are deluded in that they have blinded the
eye of their intellect with infidelity, arising from self-love,
because, as every truth is acquired by the light of Faith, so
by infidelity is acquired every kind of lying deceit. I speak
of the infidelity of those who have received holy baptism,
through which the pupil of Faith was placed in the eye of
their intellect, and as the result of which, on arriving at the
age of discretion, if they have exercised themselves rightly
in virtue, they have preserved the light of Faith. Where
fore they give birth to living virtues, bringing forth fruit by
means of their neighbour, like a woman, who, bringing forth
a child alive, brings it living to her husband ; so should they
bring their virtues living to Me, Who am the Husband of
the soul. But these wretches do the contrary, for when
they have arrived at the age of discretion, at which time they
should, by the exercise of the light of Faith, bring their virtues
living to the birth of grace, they bring them forth still-born.
Their virtues are dead because all their works are dead, having
been performed in mortal sin, and without the light of Faith.
" Such as these have indeed the form of holy baptism,
but not the light thereof, of which they have deprived
themselves, through the cloud of sins they have committed,
through self-love which has covered the pupil of their eye.
To such as these is it said, Those who have faith without works
are dead. Wherefore as the dead do not see, neither can
such a man see, because the pupil of his eye has been
darkened, as I have told thee, nor does he know that he
remains in the sins which he has committed. He does not

104 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

recognise in himself My goodness, whence he has received
being and every other grace that he possesses. Where
fore, not recognising Me in himself, he does not hate his
own sensuality, but rather loves it, seeking to satisfy his
appetite, and so brings forth the dead offspring of many
mortal sins. He does not love Me, and not loving Me,
does not love what I love, that is to say, his neighbour, and
does not delight in doing what pleases Me, wherein consists
true and real virtue, which it pleases Me to see in him,
not because such virtue profits me, for nothing can profit
Me, I being He without whom nothing is done except sin
(which is nothing, inasmuch as it deprives the soul of
grace and of Me, Who am Every Good.) It is rather on
account of their own profit that the virtues of men please
Me, for I have the wherewithal to reward them in ever
lasting life. Thou seest, then, that the faith of these wretches
is dead, because it is without works, those which they per
form not meriting for them eternal life, because they are
deprived of the life of grace. Nevertheless, a man should
not leave off doing good, either with or without grace, for,
just as every sin is punished, so is all good rewarded.
The good which is done in a state of grace merits eternal
life, and the good done out of grace is rewarded in various
ways, as I told thee above ; for sometimes I lend them time
for repentance, or put into the hearts of My servants to
continue intercessions for them, by means of which they
often escape from their sins and miseries. Sometimes,
through the disposition of My grace, they receive neither
prayers nor time, but are rewarded with temporal things,
being treated like animals that are fatted for the slaughter.
Therefore such as these, who, having always kicked against
My goodness, nevertheless do some good, not in a state of
grace, but in sin, and have not profited in their works either
by time, or by prayers, or any of the other ways in which
I have called them, being reproved by Me for their sins,
(My goodness wishing nevertheless to reward their
works, that is, that little service which they have done),
they are rewarded by Me with temporal things on which
they fatten, and, not correcting themselves, they arrive at

A TREATISE OF DISCRETION 105

eternal punishment. So thou seest they are deceived. Who
has deceived them ? They themselves, because they have
deprived themselves of the light of living Faith, and walk
like blind men groping, and attach themselves to that
which they touch. But, because they do not see, except
with a blind eye, they place their affections on transitory
things, therefore are they deceived and act like madmen,
who look only at the glitter of the gold, and not at the
hidden poison. Wherefore know, that the things of the
world and all its delights and pleasures they have seized and
possessed, without Me, but with disordinate love of self, and
these things are like the scorpion which I shewed thee in
the beginning, after the figure of the tree, telling thee that it
carries gold in front and venom behind, and that the venom
was not without the gold, nor the gold without the venom,
but that the gold was seen first, and that no one preserved
himself from the venom, except those who were illuminated
by the light of faith."

CHAPTER XLVII.

How the commandments cannot be observed by those who do not
observe the counsels ; and how every state, which a man may
choose, if he have a good and holy will, is pleasing to God.

"I HAVE told thee of those, who, with the knife of two
blades (that is hatred of vice and love of virtue), for love of
Me, cut out the venom of their own sensuality, and, with the
light of reason, held and possessed and acquired the gold
contained in those mundane things that they desired to
keep. But, he who desires to practise great perfection,
despises them in deed as well as in thought. These are
they, as I told thee, who observe the counsel actually, which
was given to them and left by My Truth. And those who
retain possession of the things of the world, are those who
observe the commandments in action, but the counsels in
thought only, and not in deed. For, inasmuch as the
counsels are bound up in the commandments, no one can

106 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

observe the latter who does not observe the former, at least
in thought, that is to say, that they possess the riches of
the world humbly and without pride, as lent to them and
not their own ; for they are only given to you for your use
through My goodness, since you only possess what I give
you, and can only retain what I allow you to retain. I
give you as much of them as I see to be profitable for your
salvation, and in this way should you use them, for a man,
so using them, observes the commandment, loving Me above
everything, and his neighbour as himself ; for he lives with
a pure divested heart, casting riches away from himself in
desire and love, and only possessing them in accordance
with My will. Such a man therefore, though he possess
his riches in deed, observes the counsel in thought, having
cut out of his heart the poison of disordinate love and
affection. Such as these are in common charity. But those
who observe the commandments and counsels in deed as
well as in thought are in perfect charity.

" With true simplicity they observe the counsel which My
Truth, the Word Incarnate, gave to that young man who
asked, saying : What must I do, Master, to inherit Eternal
life ? to whom He replied : Observe the commandments of
the Law, and the young man answering, said : I have observed
them. Jesus then said : It is well ; now, ifthou wilt be perfect,
go, sell all that thou hast and give to the poor. And the
young man was sad, because he still held his riches with
too much love.

" But these perfect ones observe that counsel, abandoning
the world with its pleasures, macerating the body with
penance and with watching, with humility and continual
prayers. The others, dwelling in common charity, who do
not raise themselves above their worldly possessions in deed,
do not on that account lose eternal life, inasmuch as they
are not fettered by them. But, if they wish to possess the
things of the world, they should do so in the way that I
have told thee, and they do not offend in so possessing
them, because everything is good and perfect, and created
by Me, Who am the Supreme Good, for the service of My
rational creatures ; not that My rational creatures may

A TREATISE OF DISCRETION 107

become the slaves and servants of the delights of the world,
but that, if it pleases them to hold worldly possessions (not
desiring to go on to the great perfection), they may hold them
not as their servants but as their lords. And they should
give their love and desire to Me, possessing every other thing,
not as their own, but as lent to them, as I told thee. For
I am no Acceptor of creatures, or of conditions, but rather
of holy desires ; wherefore, in whatever condition a man may
choose to be, he may have a good and holy will and be
pleasing to Me. But who will possess in this way ?
Those who have destroyed the venom, with hatred of their
own sensuality and love of virtue. Having destroyed the
venom of disordinate desire, and ruled it with love and fear
of Me, a man can choose and hold the condition he prefers,
and, in either, he will be capable of receiving eternal life,
although the greater perfection and the more pleasing to Me,
be to raise himself in deed as well as in thought from every
thing of the world. But he who does not wish to rise to
this perfection, his fragility not allowing him to do so, can
remain in the ordinary state, according to his vocation, and
this My goodness has ordered so that no one may have
excuse for sinning, whatever his condition may be. And
truly they have no excuse, because I have condescended to
their passions and weaknesses in such a way that they,
wishing to remain in the world, can do so, possessing
riches, retaining their dignities, living in the state of
matrimony, bringing up their children, and striving for
them, and remaining in whatever condition they may
choose, provided that they truly cut out the venom of their
own sensuality, which gives eternal death. And rightly is
their own sensuality called venom, because, as a sting gives
pain to the body, and finally causes its death unless it is
cast out, or some medicine taken, so does the scorpion of
worldly delight to the soul ; not that temporal things, in
themselves, contain any venom, for they are good and made
by Me, Who am Supreme Good, and therefore can be used
as man pleases with holy fear and true love, but I am
speaking of the sting of the perverse will of man. I say,
then, that it envenoms the soul and gives it death, unless

io8 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

it is drawn out of the heart and the affection, and vomited
by holy confession, for confession is a medicine which
cures this sting, though it seems bitter to sensual self-love.
Thou seest then how deluded are they who can possess and
have Me, fleeing sadness and obtaining cheerfulness and
consolation, and who, nevertheless, desire evil under colour
of good, and give themselves up to the acquiring of gold
with disordinate love. But, because they are blinded with
much infidelity, feeling themselves envenomed, yet not per
ceiving how they are stung, they take not the remedy, and
bear the cross of the Devil, tasting the earnest money of
Hell."

CHAPTER XLVIII.

How worldly men cannot be satisfied with their possessions ; and
of the suffering their perverse will causes them even in this life.

" I TOLD thee, above, that the will alone is the cause of man s
pain, and because My servants are deprived of their own
will, and clothed with Mine, they do not feel afflicting pain,
but are satisfied, feeling Me by grace in their souls, and if
they possessed the whole world without Me they could not
be satisfied, because the things created are less than man
for they are made for man, and not man for them and
therefore can he not be satisfied by them, but by Me alone.
Wherefore these miserable ones in great blindness are
always striving and are never satisfied, desiring that which
they cannot have, because they do not ask of Me, Who alone
can satisfy. Wilt thou that I tell thee what their pain is ?
Thou knowest that love always gives pain, when that thing
to which the soul has become conformed is lost. These
have become conformed to the earth, through love, in diverse
ways, wherefore earth they have become ; some are con
formed to riches, some to worldly rank, some to their
children, some lose Me by serving creatures, some make of
their body a brute beast through their great filthiness, and
so, in various ways, they desire and feed themselves on earth,

A TREATISE OF DISCRETION 109

and they would that things were lasting, but they are not, but
pass like the wind ; for either they fail them at the moment
of death, or else they are deprived of what they love by My
dispensation. And, being deprived, they suffer intolerable
pain, and their loss causes them as much grief as they had
disordinate love when they possessed them. Had they held
them as things lent to them, and not as their own, they
would leave them without pain. They have pain then,
because they have not what they desire. Because, as I
told thee, the world cannot satisfy them, and, being un
satisfied, they suffer. How great is the pain of the prick of
conscience ! How great is his pain who thirsts for revenge,
which pain continually gnaws him and causes him to die,
before he has killed his enemy with the knife of hatred !
How much pain the miser endures, who through avarice cuts
down his needs ! How much torment the envious man
endures, for envy always gnaws his heart, and does not
allow him to take delight in the well-being of his neighbour !
From everything, which a man loves sensually, he draws
pain with many disordinate fears. Wherefore, such as these
have taken the cross of the Devil, tasting the earnest money
of Hell, on which they live in this life, with many and diverse
sicknesses, and if they do not correct themselves they will
afterwards receive eternal death.

" These are injured by the thorns of many tribulations,
torturing themselves with their own disordinate will, who
carry the cross in heart and in body, that is, with pain and
torment, the soul and the body pass their time without any
merit, because they bear not their labours with patience,
but rather with impatience. And, because they have
possessed and acquired the gold of the delights of the world
with disordinate love, being deprived of the life of grace, and
of the affection of charity, they have become trees of death.
And, therefore, all their works are dead, and with pain they
go through the river, being drowned, and arrive at the water
of death, passing with hatred through the gate of the Devil,
and receive eternal damnation. Now thou hast seen how
they deceive themselves, and with how much pain they go
to Hell, making themselves martyrs of the Devil. And thou

no THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

hast seen what it is that blinds them, namely the cloud of
self-love, hiding the pupil of the light of faith. And thou
hast seen how the tribulations of the world, from whatever
side they come, injure My servants corporally, but not
mentally, because they, being conformed to My will, are
contented to suffer pain for Me. But the servants of the
world are hurt within and without, and particularly within,
by fear, that is, fear of losing that which they possess, and
by love, that is, the desire for that which they cannot have.
All the other suffering which proceeds from these two
principal causes, thy tongue is not sufficient to relate.

"Thou seest, then, that, even in this life, the righteous have
a better bargain than the sinners, and thou hast fully seen
how they walk and what is their end."

CHAPTER XLIX.

How servile fear is not sufficient to give eternal life ; and how, by
the exercise of this fear, one arrives at the love of virtue.

" Now I say to thee that there are some few who, feeling
themselves spurred by the tribulations of the world (which
I give in order that the soul may know that her end is not
in this life, and that things are imperfect and transitory, and
that she may desire Me Who am her End), begin to lift the
cloud off themselves, on account of the suffering that sin
causes them, and, which they see, must follow sin. With
this servile fear they begin to come out of the river, vomit
ing the poison which was flung to them by the scorpion
under the appearance of gold, and which they took without
moderation, receiving thereby poison, and, arising, take the
direction of the bank to attach themselves to the Bridge.

" But it does not suffice to go with servile fear alone, for
to sweep out the house of mortal sin, without filling it with
virtue, founded in love and not in fear, will not give eternal
life. Man must put both feet on the first step of the
Bridge, that is, affection and desire, which are the feet that

A TREATISE OF DISCRETION in

carry the soul into the love of My Truth, of Whom I
have made for you a Bridge. This servile fear is the first
step, which I told thee would have to be ascended, when I
told thee how He had made a staircase of His Body, and it
is indeed true, that it is almost always the first step that the
servants of the world take, arising, first, through the fear of
pain. The world begins to displease them, sometimes on
account of its tribulations, and sometimes because they
become tedious to themselves. If they exercise this fear
with the light of faith, they will pass on to the love of
virtue.

"But, there are some who proceed with such half-heartedness
that oftentimes they turn in again, because, having arrived at
the bank, and, contrary winds arising, they are struck by
the waves of the tempestuous sea of this dark life. And
if the wind of prosperity arrives, a man, not having, through
negligence, mounted, with affection, and the love of virtue,
the first great step, turns his head back to the
pleasures of the world with disordinate delight. If the
wind of adversity blows, he turns back through impatience,
because he has not hated his sin on account of the injury it
has done to Me, but on account of the fear of pain it causes
to him, with which fear alone he had arisen from the vomit.
All practice of virtue requires perseverance, and if a man
does not persevere he will not attain his desire, which is
to arrive at the end for which he began. Wherefore to
fulfil his desire he needs perseverance.

" I have told thee that they turn back on account of the
diverse contrary winds that arise against them, or the
warring of their own sensuality against the Spirit, or
because they turn to creatures, loving them with disordinate
love apart from Me, or on account of impatience of injury,
or the Devil makes them turn back through many and
diverse battles, and sometimes through contempt, bringing
them to confusion, saying :

" This good which thou hast begun to practise is not
worth so much to thee as thy sins and faults, which
he says to make them turn back and abandon the little
practice of virtue which they had begun. And sometimes

ii2 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

he makes them turn back through love of pleasure, telling
them to hope in My Mercy, saying : Why harass
thyself? Enjoy this life, and, in the extremity of death,
recognising thy sins, thou shalt receive mercy. And so,
in this way, the Devil causes them to lose the fear with
which they had begun. For these, and many other things,
they turn back and are not constant or persevering, and
all this befalls them because the roots of self-love are by
no means ploughed up in them, and they take hold of the
hope of My Mercy, not as they ought, but with great
presumption, seizing that which they continually offend. I
have not given, and do not give, My mercy in order that
men may offend in the hope of it, but in order that they
may defend themselves, with it, from the malice of the Devil,
and from disordinate confusion of mind. But they who
offend with the arm of mercy do quite the contrary, and it is
because they have not persevered in the first change they
made, arising, through the fear of pain and the pricks of
the thorns of many tribulations, from the misery of mortal
sin. Wherefore, not having made the first change, they do
not attain to the love of virtue, and therefore do they not
persevere.

"The soul that does not change her course does not
proceed, and, if she proceeds not, she turns back, so that
such as these, of whom I have been speaking to thee, not
proceeding with virtue, nor arising from the imperfections of
fear and attaining to love, must needs turn back."

CHAPTER L.

How this soul was in great bitterness, on account of the blindness
of those who are drowned below in the river.

11 THEN that soul, tormented by desire, considering her own
imperfections and those of others, was saddened to hear of
and to see the great blindness of creatures, notwithstanding
the great goodness of GOD, in having placed nothing in this

A TREATISE OF DISCRETION 113

life, no matter in what condition, that could be an impedi
ment to the salvation of creatures, but rather arranged for
the exercising and proving of virtue in them. And, not
withstanding all this, she saw them, through self-love and
disordinate affection, go under by the river and arrive at
eternal damnation, and many who were in the river and
had begun to come out, turn back again, scandalised at her,
because they had heard of the sweet goodness of GOD, Who
had deigned to manifest Himself to her. And, for this, she
was in bitterness, and fixing the eye of her intellect on the
Eternal Father, she said : " Oh, Inestimable Love, great is
the delusion of Thy creatures. I would that, when it is
pleasing to Thy Goodness, Thou wouldst more clearly
explain to me the three steps figured in the Body of Thy
only Son, and what method should be used so as to come
entirely out of the depths and to keep the way of Thy
Truth, and who are those who ascend the staircase."

CHAPTER LI.

How the three steps figured in the Bridge, that is, in the Son of
GOD, signify the three powers of the soul.

THEN the Divine Goodness, regarding with the eye of His
mercy, the hunger and desire of that soul, said : " Oh,
My most delightful daughter, I am not a Despiser, but the
Fulfiller of holy desire, and therefore I will show and
declare to thee that which thou askest Me. Thou askest
Me to explain to thee the figure of the three steps, and to
tell thee what method they, who want to come out of the river
must use, to be able to ascend the Bridge. And, although
above, in relating to thee the delusion and blindness of
men, tasting in this life the earnest-money of Hell, and, as
martyrs of the Devil, receiving damnation, I showed thee
the methods they should use; nevertheless, now I will
declare it to thee more fully, satisfying thy desire. Thou
knowest that every evil is founded in self-love, and that

H

H4 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

self-love is a cloud that takes away the light of reason,
which reason holds in itself the light of faith, and one is
not lost without the other. The soul I created in My
image and similitude, giving her memory, intellect, and
will. The intellect is the most noble part of the soul, and
is moved by the affection, and nourishes it, and the hand
of love that is, the affection fills the memory with the
remembrance of Me and of the benefits received, which it
does with care and gratitude, and so one power spurs on
another, and the soul is nourished in the life of grace.

" The soul cannot live without love, but always wants to
love something, because she is made of love, and, by love,
I created her. And therefore I told thee that the affection
moved the intellect, saying, as it were, / will love, because
the food on which I feed is love Then the intellect, feeling
itself awakened by the affection, says, as it were, If thou
wilt love, I will give thee that which thou canst love. And
at once it arises, considering carefully the dignity of the
soul, and the indignity into which she has fallen through
sin. In the dignity of her being it tastes My inestimable
goodness, and the increate charity with which I created
her, and, in contemplating her misery, it discovers and tastes
My mercy, and sees how, through mercy, I have lent her
time and drawn her out of darkness. Then the affection
nourishes itself in love, opening the mouth of holy desire,
with which it eats hatred and displeasure of its own
sensuality, united with true humility and perfect patience,
which it drew from holy hatred. The virtues conceived,
they give birth to themselves perfectly and imperfectly,
according as the soul exercises perfection in herself, as I
will tell thee below. So, on the contrary, if the sensual
affection wants to love sensual things, the eye of the
intellect sets before itself for its sole object transitory
things, with self-love, displeasure of virtue, and love of
vice, whence she draws pride and impatience, and the
memory is filled with nothing but that which the affection
presents to it. This love so dazzles the eye of the intellect
that it can discern and see nothing but such glittering
objects. It is the very brightness of the things that causes

A TREATISE OF DISCRETION 115

the intellect to perceive them and the affection to love
them ; for had worldly things no such brightness there
would be no sin, for man, by his nature, cannot desire
anything but good, and vice, appearing to him thus, under
colour of the soul s good, causes him to sin. But, because
the eye, on account of its blindness, does not discern, and
knows not the truth, it errs, seeking good and delights
there where they are not.

" I have already told thee that the delights of the world,
without Me, are venomous thorns, and, that the vision of the
intellect is deluded by them, and the affection of the will
is deluded into loving them, and the memory into retaining
remembrance of them. The unity of these powers of the
soul is so great that I cannot be offended by one without
all the others offending Me at the same time, because the
one presents to the other, as I told thee, good or evil,
according to the pleasure of the free will. This free
will is bound to the affection, and it moves as it pleases,
either with the light of reason or without it. Your reason
is attached to Me when your will does not, by disordinate
love, cut it off from Me ; you have also in you the law of
perversity, that continually fights against the Spirit. You
have, then, two parts in you sensuality and reason.
Sensuality is appointed to be the servant, so that, with the
instrument of the body, you may prove and exercise the
virtues. The soul is free, liberated from sin by the Blood
of My Son, and she cannot be dominated unless she consent
with her will, which is controlled by her free choice, and
when this free choice agrees with the will, it becomes one
thing with it. And I tell thee truly, that, when the soul
undertakes to gather together, with the hand of free choice,
her powers in My Name, then are assembled all the actions,
both spiritual and temporal, that the creature can do, and
free choice gets rid of sensuality and binds itself with
reason. I, then, by grace, rest in the midst of them ; and
this is what My Truth, the Word Incarnate, meant, when
He said : When there are two or three or more gathered
together in My name, there am I in the midst of them?
And this is the truth. I have already told thee that no

Ii6 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

one could come to Me except by Him, and therefore did I
make of Him a Bridge with three steps. And those
three steps figure, as I will narrate to thee below, the
three states of the soul."

CHAPTER LII.

How if the three aforesaid powers are not united, there cannot
be perseverance, without which no man arrives at his end.

" I HAVE explained to thee the figure of the three steps, in
general, as the three powers of the soul, and no one who
wishes to pass by the Bridge and doctrine of My Truth
can mount one without the other, and the soul cannot
persevere except by the union of her three powers. Of
which I told thee above, when thou askedst Me, how
the voyagers could come out of the river. There are two
goals, and, for the attainment of either, perseverance is
needful they are vice and virtue. If thou desire to arrive
at life, thou must persevere in virtue, and if thou would
have eternal death, thou must persevere in vice. Thus it is
with perseverance that they who want life arrive at Me
Who am Life, and with perseverance that they who taste
the water of death arrive at the Devil."

CHAPTER LIII.

An exposition on Christ s words : " Whosoever thirtieth, let him
come to Me and drink."

" You were all invited, generally and in particular, by My
Truth, when He cried in the Temple, saying : Whosoever
thirsteth, let him come to Me and drink, for I am the Foun
tain of the Water of Life! He did not say Go to the
Father and drink? but He said Come to Me. He spoke
thus, because in Me, the Father, there can be no pain, but

A TREATISE OF DISCRETION 117

in My Son there can be pain. And you, while you are
pilgrims and wayfarers in this mortal life, cannot be without
pain, because the earth, through sin, brought forth thorns.
And why did He say Let him come to Me and drink ?
Because whoever follows His doctrine, whether in the most
perfect way or by dwelling in the life of common charity,
finds to drink, tasting the fruit of the Blood, through
the union of the Divine nature with the human nature.
And you, finding yourselves in Him, find yourselves
also in Me, Who am the Sea Pacific, because I am one
thing with Him, and He with Me. So that you are invited
to the Fountain of Living Water of Grace, and it is right
for you, with perseverance, to keep by Him Who is made
for you a Bridge, not being turned back by any contrary
wind that may arise, either of prosperity or adversity, and
to persevere till you find Me, who am the Giver of the
Water of Life, by means of this sweet and amorous Word,
My Only-Begotten Son. And why did He say: I am the
Fountain of Living Water ? Because He was the Foun
tain which contained Me, the Giver of the Living Water,
by means of the union of the Divine with the human
nature. Why did He say Come to Me and drink ?
Because you cannot pass this mortal life without pain, and
in Me, the Father, there can be no pain, but in Him there
can be pain, and therefore of Him did I make for you a
Bridge. No one can come to Me except by Him, as He
told you in the words : No one can come to the Father
except by Me.

" Now thou hast seen to what way thou shouldest keep,
and how, namely with perseverance, otherwise thou shalt
not drink, for perseverance receives the crown of glory and
victory in the life everlasting."

u8 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

CHAPTER LIV.

The general method by which every rational creature can come out
of the sea of the world, and go by the aforesaid holy Bridge.

"I WILL now return to the three steps, which you must
climb in order to issue from the river without drowning,
and attain to the Living Water, to which you are invited,
and to desire My Presence in the midst of you. For in this
way, in which you should follow, I am in your midst,
reposing, by grace, in your souls. In order to have desire
to mount the steps, you must have thirst, because only
those who thirst are invited : Whosoever thirsteth, let him
come to Me and drink. 1 He who has no thirst will not
persevere, for either fatigue causes him to stop, or pleasure,
and he does not care to carry the vessel with which he
may get the water, and neither does he care for the company,
and alone he cannot go, and he turns back at the smallest
prick of persecution, for he loves it not. He is afraid
because he is alone ; were he accompanied he would not
fear, and had he ascended the three steps he would not
have been alone, and would, therefore, have been secure.
You must then have thirst and gather yourselves together,
as it is said, two or three or more. 1

" Why is it said two or three or more ? Because
there are not two without three, nor three without two,
neither three nor two without more. The number one is
excluded, for, unless a man has a companion, I cannot be in
the midst ; this is no indifferent trifle, for he who is wrapped
up in self-love is solitary.

" Why is he solitary ? Because he is separated from My
grace and the love of his neighbour, and being, by sin,
deprived of Me, he turns to that which is nought, because
I am He that is. So that he who is solitary, that is, who is
alone in self-love, is not mentioned by My Truth and is not
acceptable to Me. He says then : If there be two or three
or more gathered together in My name, I will be in the midst
of them I said to thee that two were not without three,

A TREATISE OF DISCRETION 119

nor three without two, and so it is. Thou knowest that
the commandments of the Law are completely contained in
two, and if these two are not observed the Law is not
observed. The two commandments are to love Me above
everything, and thy neighbour as thyself, which two are
the beginning, the middle and the end of the Law. These
two cannot be gathered together in My Name, without
three, that is without the congregation of the powers of the
soul, the memory, the intellect and the will ; the memory
to retain the remembrance of My benefits and My goodness,
the intellect to gaze into the ineffable love, which I have
shown thee by means of My only- begotten Son, Whom I
have placed as the object of the vision of your intellect, so
that, in Him, you behold the fire of My charity, and the
will to love and desire Me, Who am your End. When
these virtues and powers of the soul are congregated
together in My Name, I am in the midst of them by grace,
and a man, who is full of My love and that of his neigh
bour, suddenly finds himself the companion of many and
royal virtues. Then the appetite of the soul is disposed
to thirst. Thirst, I say, for virtue, and the honour of
My Name and salvation of souls, and his every other thirst
is spent and dead, and he then proceeds securely without
any servile fear, having ascended the first step of the
affection, for the affection, stripped of self-love, mounts
above itself and above transitory things, or, if he will still
hold them, he does so according to My will that is, with
a holy and true fear, and love of virtue. He then finds
that he has attained to the second step that is, to the
light of the intellect, which is, through Christ crucified,
mirrored in cordial love of Me, for through Him have I
shown My love to man. He finds peace and quiet, because
the memory is filled with My love. Thou knowest that
an empty thing, when touched, resounds, but not so when
it is full. So memory, being filled with the light of the
intellect, and the affection with love, on being moved by
the tribulations or delights of the world, will not resound
with disordinate merriment or with impatience, because
they are full of Me, Who am every good.

120 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

Having climbed the three steps, he finds that the three
powers of the soul have been gathered together by his
reason in My Name. And his soul, having gathered to
gether the two commandments, that is love of Me and of
the neighbour, finds herself accompanied by Me, Who
am her strength and security, and walks safely because
I am in the midst of her. Wherefore then he follows on
with anxious desire, thirsting after the way of Truth, in
which way he finds the Fountain of the Water of Life,
through his thirst for My honour and his own salvation
and that of his neighbour, without which thirst he would
not be able to arrive at the Fountain. He walks on,
carrying the vessel of the heart, emptied of every affection
and disordinate love of the world, but filled immediately it
is emptied with other things, for nothing can remain empty,
and, being without disordinate love for transitory things, it
is filled with love of celestial things, and sweet Divine love,
with which he arrives at the Fountain of the Water of Life,
and passes through the Door of Christ crucified, and
tastes the Water of Life, finding himself in Me, the Sea
Pacific.

CHAPTER LV.

A brief repetition of some things already said.

" I HAVE now shown thee the general method that every
rational creature should follow, in order to come out of the
sea of the world, without being drowned, and escape eternal
damnation. I have also shown thee the three general steps,
that is the three powers of the soul, and how one cannot
ascend one without ascending them all. And I have spoken
to thee of those words of My Truth : { Where two or three
or more are gathered together in My name! telling thee that
this means the gathering together of the three steps, that
is of the three powers of the soul, which three powers,
being united, have with them the two principal command
ments of the Law, that is, love of Me and of the neighbour.

A TREATISE OF DISCRETION 121

Then, the staircase being mounted, that is, gathered together
in My Name, as I have said, man immediately thirsts for
the Living Water, and sets off and passes over the Bridge,
following the doctrine of My Truth, Who is this Bridge,
and runs, in reply to His Voice, which called you, as I
told thee, above, in the Temple inviting you all, saying :
Whosoever thirsteth, let him come to Me and drink, for I am
the Fountain of the Water of Life I have explained to
thee what He meant, and how these words are to be under
stood, in order that thou mayest the better see the abundance
of My love, and the confusion of those, who, deceived by
what appears to be pleasure, run the way of the Devil, who
invites them to the water of death.

" Now thou hast seen and heard what thou askedst of Me,
and I have told thee what method should be held, so as not
to drown in the river, namely to mount by the Bridge,
carrying the heart and the affection like a vessel to Me,
Who will give to drink to him who asks of Me, and to keep
the way of Christ crucified, with perseverance, until death.
This is that method which every man should follow, no
matter what be his condition. No man can draw back,
saying : I have such and such a position, or children, or
other worldly reasons, for which I draw back from following
this way, for I have already told thee that every condition
is pleasing and acceptable to Me, provided it be held with
a holy and good will, for everything is good and perfect
and made by Me, Who am Supreme Good, and I did not
create nor give anything by which man could be brought
to death, but everything was made to lead him to life. I
ask an easy thing of you, for nothing is so easy and de
lightful as love, and what I require of you is none other
than love of Me and of the neighbour. This you can fulfil
in every time and in every place and in every condition,
provided it be held to the praise and glory of My Name.
Thou knowest that I told thee, that it was through their
delusion, and walking without the Light, being clothed in
self-love, and possessing and loving things and creatures
without Me, that some pass through this life in torture,
being insupportable to themselves, and, unless they rise

122 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

above themselves, in the aforesaid way, they will arrive at
eternal damnation.

" Now I have told thee what general method every man
should hold to come out of the river."

CHAPTER LVI.

How GOD, wishing to show to this devoted soul that the three
steps of the holy Bridge, signify in particular the three states
of the soul, tells her that she should rise above herself, to
consider this truth.

" As I have told thee above, how they ought to walk, who
live in common charity, that is, observing the command
ments and counsels in thought, now I wish to tell thee of
those who have begun to mount the staircase, and want to
follow the perfect way, that is, to observe the commandments
and counsels in act, in three states, which states I will show
thee now, explaining them in particular. There are three
degrees and states of the soul as there are three steps,
which steps I explained to thee in general as the powers of
the soul of which one state is imperfect, one more per
fect, and the other most perfect. The first state is to Me
as that of a mercenary servant, the second as of a faithful
servant, and the other as of a son who loves Me, without
any consideration. These are the three states of the soul,
which can and do belong to many creatures, and sometimes
all to one creature. They can and do belong to one creature
when, with perfect solicitude, he runs by the aforesaid way,
using his time in such a way that, from the servile state he
arrives at the free state, and, from the free state, at the
filial. Arise above thyself and open the eye of thy intellect
and behold these travelling pilgrims as they pass, some im
perfectly and others perfectly, on the way of the command
ments, and some most perfectly keeping the way of the
counsels. Thou wilt see, then, whence comes imperfection,
and whence comes perfection, and how greatly the soul who

A TREATISE OF DISCRETION 123

has not rooted out of herself the roots of self-love, is
deceived. For in every state in which man may be, it is
necessary to destroy this self-love."

CHAPTER LVII.

How this devoted soul looking in the Divine mirror saw the
creatures going in diverse ways.

THEN that soul, tormented with intense desire, gazing into
the sweet Divine mirror, saw creatures setting out to attain
their end in diverse ways and with diverse considerations.
She saw that many began to mount, feeling themselves
pricked by servile fear, that is, fearing their own personal
pain, and she saw others, practising this first state, arriving
at the second state, but few she saw who arrived at the
greatest perfection.

CHAPTER LVIII.

How servile fear is not sufficient, without the love of virtue, to
give eternal life ; and how the law of fear and that of love are
united.

THEN the goodness of God, wishing to satisfy the desire of
that soul, said, Dost thou see those? They have arisen with
servile fear from the vomit of mortal sin, but, if they do not
arise with love of virtue, servile fear alone is not sufficient
to give eternal life. But love with holy fear is sufficient,
because the law is founded in love and holy fear. The old
law was the law of fear, that was given by Me to Moses,
by which law they who committed sin suffered the penalty
of it. The new law is the law of love, given by the Word
of My only-begotten Son, and is founded in love alone.
The new law does not break the old law, but rather fulfils
it, as said My Truth, "/ come not to destroy the law, but
to fulfil it: And He united the law of fear with that of

124 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

love. Through love was taken away the imperfection of
the fear of the penalty, and the perfection of holy fear
remained, that is, the fear of offending, not on account of
one s own damnation, but of offending Me, Who am Supreme
Good. So that the imperfect law was made perfect with the
law of love. Wherefore, after the car of the fire of My
only-begotten Son came and brought the fire of My charity
into yx)ur humanity with abundance of mercy, the penalty of
the sins committed by humanity was taken away, that is, he
who offended was no longer punished suddenly, as was of
old given and ordained in the law of Moses.

"There is, therefore, no need for servile fear; and this does
not mean that sin is not punished, but that the punishment
is reserved, unless, that is to say, the person punish himself
in this life with perfect contrition. For, in the other life, the
soul is separated from the body, wherefore while man lives
is his time for mercy, but when he is dead comes the time
of justice. He ought, then, to arise from servile fear, and
arrive at love and holy fear of Me, otherwise there is no
remedy against his falling back again into the river, and
reaching the waters of tribulation, and seeking the thorns of
consolation, for all consolations are thorns that pierce the
soul who loves them disordinately."

CHAPTER LIX.

How, by exercising oneself in servile fear, which is the state of
imperfection, by which is meant the first step of the holy Bridge,
one arrives at the second step, which is the state of perfection.

" I TOLD thee that no one could go by the Bridge or
come out of the river without climbing the three steps, which
is the truth. There are some who climb imperfectly, and
some perfectly, and some climb with the greatest perfection.
The first are those who are moved by servile fear, and have
climbed so far being imperfectly gathered together ; that is
to say, the soul, having seen the punishment which follows

A TREATISE OF DISCRETION 125

her sin, climbs ; and gathers together her memory to recol
lect her vice, her intellect to see the punishment which she
expects to receive for her fault, and her will to move her to
hate that fault. And let us consider this to be the first step
and the first gathering together of the powers of the soul,
which should be exercised by the light of the intellect with
the pupil of the eye of holy faith, which looks, not only at
the punishment of sin, but at the fruit of virtue, and the
love which I bear to the soul, so that she may climb with
love and affection, and stripped of servile fear. And doing
so, such souls will become faithful and not unfaithful ser
vants, serving Me through love and not through fear, and if,
with hatred of sin, they employ their minds to dig out the
root of their self-love with prudence, constancy, and
perseverance they will succeed in doing so. But there
are many who begin their course climbing so slowly, and,
render their debt to Me by such small degrees, and with such
negligence and ignorance, that they suddenly faint, and every
little breeze catches their sails, and turns their prow back
wards. Wherefore, because they imperfectly climb to the
first Step of the Bridge of Christ crucified, they do not
arrive at the second step of His Heart."

CHAPTER LX.

Of the imperfection of those who love GOD for their own
profit, delight and consolation.

" SOME there are who have become faithful servants, serving
Me with fidelity without servile fear of punishment, but
rather with love. This very love, however, if they serve
Me with a view to their own profit, or the delight and
pleasure which they find in Me, is imperfect. Dost thou
know what proves the imperfection of this love ? The
withdrawal of the consolations which they found in Me, and
the insufficiency and short duration of their love for their
neighbour, which grows weak by degrees, and ofttimes

126 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

disappears. Towards Me their love grows weak when, on
occasion, in order to exercise them in virtue and raise them
above their imperfection, I withdraw from their minds My
consolation and allow them to fall into battles and per
plexities. This I do so that, coming to perfect self-
knowledge, they may know that of themselves they are
nothing and have no grace, and, accordingly in time of
battle fly to Me, as their Benefactor, seeking Me alone, with
true humility, for which purpose I treat them thus, with
drawing from them consolation indeed, but not grace. At
such a time these weak ones, of whom I speak, relax their
energy, impatiently turning backwards, and sometimes
abandon, under colour of virtue, many of their exercises,
saying to themselves, This labour does not profit me. All
this they do, because they feel themselves deprived of
mental consolation. Such a soul acts imperfectly, for she
has not yet unwound the bandage of spiritual self-love, for,
had she unwound it she would see that, in truth, everything
proceeds from Me, that no leaf of a tree falls to the ground
without My providence, and that what I give and promise
to My creatures, I give and promise to them for their
sanctification, which is the good and the end for which I
created them. My creatures should see and know that I
wish nothing but their good, through the Blood of My only-
begotten Son, in Which they are washed from their iniqui
ties. By this Blood they are enabled to know My Truth,
how, in order to give them eternal life, I created them in
My image and likeness and re-created them to grace with
the Blood of My Son, making them sons of adoption. But,
since they are imperfect, they make use of Me only for their
own profit, relaxing their love for their neighbour. Thus,
those in the first state come to nought through the fear
of enduring pain, and those in the second, because they
slacken their pace, ceasing to render service to their neigh
bour, and withdrawing their charity if they see their own
profit or consolation withdrawn from them : this happens
because their love was originally impure, for they gave to
their neighbour the same imperfect love which they gave
to Me, that is to say, a love based only on desire of their

A TREATISE OF DISCRETION 127

own advantage. If, through a desire for perfection, they
do not recognise this imperfection of theirs, it is impossible
that they should not turn back. For those who desire
Eternal Life, a pure love, prescinding from themselves, is
necessary, for it is not enough for eternal life to fly sin
from fear of punishment, or to embrace virtue from the
motive of one s own advantage. Sin should be abandoned
because it is displeasing to Me, and virtue should be loved
for My sake. It is true that, generally speaking, every
person is first called in this way, but this is because the
soul herself is at first imperfect, from which imperfection
she must advance to perfection, either while she lives, by a
generous love to Me with a pure and virtuous heart that
takes no thought for herself, or, at least, in the moment of
death, recognising her own imperfection, with the purpose,
had she but time, of serving Me, irrespectively of herself.
It was with this imperfect love that S. Peter loved the
sweet and good Jesus, My only- begotten Son, enjoying
most pleasantly His sweet conversation, but, when the
time of trouble came, he failed, and so disgraceful was his
fall, that, not only could he not bear any pain himself, but
his terror of the very approach of pain caused him to fall,
and deny the Lord, with the words, I have never known
Him. The soul who has climbed this step with servile
fear and mercenary love alone, falls into many troubles.
Such souls should arise and become sons, and serve Me,
irrespective of themselves, for I, Who am the Rewarder of
every labour, render to each man according to his state and
his labour ; wherefore, if these souls do not abandon the
exercise of holy prayer and their other good works, but go
on, with perseverance, to increase their virtues, they will
arrive at the state of filial love, because I respond to them
with the same love, with which they love Me, so that, if
they love Me, as a servant does his master, I pay them
their wages according to their deserts, but I do not reveal
Myself to them, because secrets are revealed to a friend,
who has become one thing with his friend, and not to a
servant. Yet it is true, that a servant may so advance by
the virtuous love, which he bears to his master, as to

128 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

become a very dear friend, and so do some of these of whom
I have spoken, but while they remain in the state of
mercenary love, I do not manifest Myself to them. If they,
through displeasure at their imperfection, and love of virtue,
dig up, with hatred, the root of spiritual self-love, and mount
to the throne of conscience, reasoning with themselves, so
as to quell the motions of servile fear in their heart, and to
correct mercenary love by the light of the holy faith, they
will be so pleasing to Me, that they will attain to the love
of the friend. And I will manifest myself to them, as My
Truth said in these words : He who loves Me shall be one
thing with Me and I with him, and I will manifest Myself
to him and we will dwell together. 1 This is the state of two
dear friends, for though they are two in body, yet they are
one in soul through the affection of love, because love trans
forms the lover into the object loved, and where, two friends
have one soul, there can be no secret between them, where
fore My Truth said : / will come and we will dwell together,
and this is the truth."

CHAPTER LXI.

Of the way in which GOD manifests Himself to the soul
who loves Him.

" KNOWEST thou how I manifest Myself to the soul who
loves Me in truth, and follows the doctrine of My sweet
and amorous Word ? In many is My virtue manifested in
the soul in proportion to her desire, but I make three
special manifestations. The first manifestation of My
virtue, that is to say of My love and charity in the soul,
is made through the Word of My Son, and shown in the
Blood, which He spilled with such fire of love. Now
this charity is manifested in two ways ; first, in general,
to ordinary people, that is to those who live in the ordinary
grace of God. It is manifested to them by the many and
diverse benefits which they receive from Me. The second
mode of manifestation, which is developed from the first, is

A TREATISE OF DISCRETION 129

peculiar to those who have become My friends in the way
mentioned above, and is known through a sentiment of the
soul, by which they taste, know, prove and feel it. This
second manifestation, however, is in men themselves ; they
manifesting Me, through the affection of their love. For
though I am no Acceptor of creatures, I am an Acceptor of
holy desires, and Myself in the soul in that precise degree
of perfection which she seeks in Me. Sometimes I mani
fest Myself (and this is also a part of the second manifesta
tion) by endowing men with the spirit of prophecy, showing
them the things of the future. This I do in many and
diverse ways, according as I see need in the soul herself
and in other creatures. At other times the third manifesta
tion takes place. I then form in the mind the presence of
the Truth, My only-begotten Son, in many ways, accord
ing to the will and the desire of the soul. Sometimes
she seeks Me in prayer, wishing to know My power, and I
satisfy her by causing her to taste and see My virtue.
Sometimes she seeks Me in the wisdom of My Son, and I
satisfy her by placing His wisdom before the eye of her
intellect, sometimes in the clemency of the Holy Spirit
and then My Goodness causes her to taste the fire of
Divine charity, and to conceive the true and royal virtues,
which are founded on the pure love of her neighbour."

CHAPTER LXII.

Why Christ did not say / will manifest My Father, but I will
manifest Myself.

11 THOU seest now how truly My Word spoke, when He
said : He who loves Me shall be one thing with Me!
Because, by following His doctrine with the affection of
love, you are united with Him, and, being united with
Him, you are united with Me, because We are one thing
together. And so it is that I manifest Myself to you,
because We are one and the same thing together.

i

130 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

Wherefore if My Truth said, I will manifest Myself to you,
He said the truth, because, in manifesting Himself, He
manifested Me, and, in manifesting Me, He manifested Him
self. But why did He not say, / will manifest My Father
to you 1 ? For three reasons in particular. First, because
He wished to show that He and I are not separate from
each other, on which account He also made the following
reply to S. Philip, when he said to Him, Show us the Father,
and it is enough for us. 1 My Word said, Who sees Me
sees the Father, and who sees the Father sees Me. 1 This
He said because He was one thing with Me, and that
which He had, He had from Me, I having nothing from
Him ; wherefore, again, He said to Judas, My doctrine is
not Mine, but My Father s who sent Me, because My Son
proceeds from Me, not I from Him, though I with Him and
He with Me are but one thing. For this reason He did not
say / will manifest the Father, but I will manifest Myself]
being one thing with the Father. The second reason was
because, in manifesting Himself to you, He did not present
to you anything He had not received from Me, the Father.
These words, then, mean, the Father has manifested Him
self to Me, because I am one thing with Him, and I will
manifest to you, by means of Myself, Me and Him. The
third reason was, because I, being invisible, could not be
seen by you, until you should be separated from your
bodies. Then, indeed, will you see Me, your GOD, and My
Son, the Word, face to face. From now until after the
general Resurrection, when your humanity will be conformed
with the humanity of the Eternal Word, according to what
I told thee in the treatise of the Resurrection, you can
see Me, with the eye of the intellect alone, for, as I am, you
cannot see Me now. Wherefore I veiled the Divine nature
with your humanity, so that you might see Me through
that medium. I, the Invisible, made Myself, as it were,
visible by sending you the Word, My Son, veiled in the
flesh of your humanity. He manifested Me to you. There
fore it was that He did not say / will manifest the Father
to you! but rather, I will manifest myself to you," as if He
should say, According as My Father manifests Himself

A TREATISE OF DISCRETION 131

to Me, will I manifest Myself to yoit, for, in this manifestation
of Himself^ He manifests Me. Now therefore thou under-
standest why He did not say / will manifest the Father to
you! Both, because such a vision is impossible for you,
while yet in the mortal body, and because He is one thing
with Me."

CHAPTER LXIII.

How the soul, after having mounted the first step of the
Bridge, should proceed to mount the second.

" THOU hast now seen how excellent is the state of him
who has attained to the love of a friend ; climbing with the
foot of affection, he has reached the secret of the Heart,
which is the second of the three steps figured in the Body
of My Son. I have told thee what was meant by the three
powers of the soul, and now I will show thee how they
signify the three states, through which the soul passes.
Before treating of the third state, I wish to show thee how
a man becomes a friend and how, from a friend, he grows
into a son, attaining to filial love, and how a man may
know if he has become a friend. And first of how a man
arrives at being a friend. In the beginning, a man serves
Me imperfectly through servile fear, but, by exercise and
perseverance, he arrives at the love of delight, finding his
own delight and profit in Me. This is a necessary stage,
by which he must pass, who would attain to perfect love,
to the love that is of friend and son. I call filial love
perfect, because thereby, a man receives his inheritance from
Me, the Eternal Father, and because a son s love includes
that of a friend, which is why I told thee that a friend
/grows into a son. What means does he take to arrive
thereat ? I will tell thee. Every perfection and every
virtue proceeds from charity, and charity is nourished by
humility, which results from the knowledge and holy hatred
of self, that is, sensuality. To arrive thereat, a man must
persevere, and remain in the cellar of self-knowledge in which

132 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

he will learn My mercy, in the Blood of My only-bego tten
Son, drawing to Himself, with this love, My divine charity,
exercising himself in the extirpation of his perverse self-
will, both spiritual and temporal, hiding himself in his own
house, as did Peter, who, after the sin of denying My
Son, began to weep. Yet his lamentations were imperfect
and remained so, until after the forty days, that is until
after the Ascension. But when My Truth returned to Me,
in His humanity, Peter and the others concealed themselves
in the house, awaiting the coming of the Holy Spirit, which
My Truth had promised them. They remained barred in
from fear, because the soul always fears until she arrives at
true love. But when they had persevered in fasting and in
humble and continual prayer, until they had received the
abundance of the Holy Spirit, they lost their fear, and
followed and preached Christ crucified. So also the soul,
who wishes to arrive at this perfection, after she has risen
from the guilt of mortal sin, recognising it for what it is,
begins to weep from fear of the penalty, whence she rises
to the consideration of My mercy, in which contemplation,
she finds her own pleasure and profit. This is an imperfect
state, and I, in order to develop perfection in the soul,
after the forty days, that is after these two states, withdraw
Myself from time to time, not in grace but in feeling. My
Truth showed you this when He said to the disciples f I
will go and will return to you.

" Everything that He said, was said primarily, and in
particular, to the disciples, but referred in general to the
whole present and future, to those, that is to say, who
should come after. He said / will go and will return to
you; 1 and so it was, for, when the Holy Spirit returned upon
the disciples, He also returned, as I told you above, for the
Holy Spirit did not return alone, but came with My power,
and the wisdom of the Son, Who is one thing with Me, and
with His own clemency, which proceeds from Me the
Father, and from the Son. Now, as I told thee, in order to
raise the soul from imperfection, I withdraw Myself from
her sentiment, depriving her of former consolations. When
she was in the guilt of mortal sin, she had separated herself

A TREATISE OF DISCRETION 133

from Me, and I deprived her of grace through her own guilt,
because that guilt had barred the door of her desires.
Wherefore the sun of grace did not shine, not through its
own defect, but through the defect of the creature, who bars
the door of desire. When she knows herself and her
darkness, she opens the window and vomits her filth, by
holy confession. Then I, having returned to the soul by
grace, withdraw Myself from her by sentiment, which I do
in order to humiliate her, and cause her to seek Me in truth,
and to prove her in the light of faith, so that she come to
prudence. Then, if she love Me without thought of self,
and with lively faith and with hatred of her own sensuality,
she rejoices in the time of trouble, deeming herself un
worthy of peace and quietness of mind. Now comes the
second of the three things of which I told thee, that is to
say : how the soul arrives at perfection, and what she does
when she is perfect. This is what she does. Though she
perceives that I have withdrawn Myself, she does not, on
that account, look back, but perseveres with humility in her
exercises, remaining barred in the house of self-knowledge,
and, continuing to dwell therein, awaits, with lively faith,
the coming of the Holy Spirit, that is of Me, Who am the
fire of charity. How does she await me ? Not in idleness,
but in watching and continued prayer, and not only with
physical, but also with intellectual watching, that is, with
the eye of her mind alert, and, watching with the light of
faith, she extirpates, with hatred, the wandering thoughts
of her heart, looking for the affection of My charity, and
knowing that I desire nothing but her sanctification, which
is certified to her in the Blood of My Son. As long as her
eye thus watches, illumined by the knowledge of Me and of
herself, she continues to pray with the prayer of holy desire,
which is a continued prayer, and also with actual prayer,
which she practises at the appointed times, according to the
orders of Holy Church. This is what the soul does in
order to rise from imperfection and arrive at perfection, and
it is to this end, namely that she may arrive at perfection,
that I withdraw from her, not by grace but by sentiment.
Once more do I leave her, so that she may see and know

i 3 4 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

her defects, so that, feeling herself deprived of consolation
and afflicted by pain, she may recognise her own weakness,
and learn how incapable she is of stability or perseverance,
thus cutting down to the very root of spiritual self-love, for
this should be the end and purpose of all her self-knowledge,
to rise above herself, mounting the throne of conscience,
and not permitting the sentiment of imperfect love to turn
again in its death-struggle, but, with correction and reproof,
digging up the root of self-love, with the knife of self-hatred
and the love of virtue."

CHAPTER LXIV.

How an imperfect lover of GOD loves his neighbour also
imperfectly, and of the signs of this imperfect love.

" AND I would have thee know that just as every imperfection
and perfection is acquired from Me, so is it manifested by
means of the neighbour. And simple souls, who often love
creatures with spiritual love, know this well, for, if they have
received My love sincerely without any self-regarding
considerations, they satisfy the thirst of their love for their
neighbour equally sincerely. If a man carry away the
vessel which he has filled at the fountain and then drink
of it, the vessel becomes empty, but if he keep his vessel
standing in the fountain, while he drinks, it always remains
full. So the love of the neighbour, whether spiritual or
temporal, should be drunk in Me, without any self-regarding
considerations. I require that you should love Me with
the same love with which I love you. This indeed you
cannot do, because I loved you without being loved. All
the love which you have for Me you owe to Me, so that it
is not of grace that you love Me, but because you ought to
do so. While I love you of grace, and not because I owe
you My love. Therefore to Me, in person, you cannot repay
the love which I require of you, and I have placed you
in the midst of your fellows, that you may do to them

A TREATISE OF DISCRETION 135

that which you cannot do to Me, that is to say, that you
may love your neighbour of free grace, without expecting
any return from him, and what you do to him, I count as
done to Me, which My Truth showed forth when He said to
Paul, My persecutor, Saul, Saul, why persecutes} thou
Me ? This He said, judging that Paul persecuted Him in
His faithful. This love must be sincere, because it is with
the same love with which you love Me, that you must love
your neighbour. Dost thou know how the imperfection of
spiritual love for the creature is shown ? It is shown when
the lover feels pain if it appear to him that the object of his
love does not satisfy or return his love, or when he sees
the beloved one s conversation turned aside from him, or
himself deprived of consolation, or another loved more than
he. In these and in many other ways can it be seen that
his neighbourly love is still imperfect, and that, though his
love was originally drawn from Me, the Fountain of all love,
he took the vessel out of the water, in order to drink from
it. It is because his love for Me is still imperfect, that his
neighbourly love is so weak, and because the root of self-
love has not been properly dug out. Wherefore I often
permit such a love to exist, so that the soul may in this
way come to the knowledge of her own imperfection, and
for the same reason do I withdraw myself from the soul by
sentiment, that she may be thus led to enclose herself in the
house of self-knowledge, where is acquired every perfection.
After which I return into her with more light and with
more knowledge of My Truth, in proportion to the degree
in which she refers to grace the power of slaying her own
will. And she never ceases to cultivate the vine of her
soul, and to root out the thorns of evil thoughts, replacing
them with the stones of virtues, cemented together in the
Blood of Christ crucified, Which she has found on her
journey across the Bridge of Christ, My only-begotten Son.
For I told thee, if thou remember, that upon the Bridge, that
is, upon the doctrine of My Truth, were built up the stones,
based upon the virtue of His Blood, for it is in virtue of
this Blood that the virtues give life."

136 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

CHAPTER LXV.
A TREATISE OF PRAYER

Of the means which the soul takes to arrive at pure and generous
love ; and here begins the Treatise of Prayer.

11 WHEN the soul has passed through the doctrine of Christ
crucified, with true love of virtue and hatred of vice, and
has arrived at the house of self-knowledge and entered
therein, she remains, with her door barred, in watching and
constant prayer, separated entirely from the consolations of
the world. Why does she thus shut herself in ? She does
so from fear, knowing her own imperfections, and also from
the desire, which she has, of arriving at pure and generous
love. And because she sees and knows well that in no
other way can she arrive thereat, she waits, with a lively
faith for My arrival, through increase of grace in her. How
is a lively faith to be recognised ? By perseverance in
virtue, and by the fact that the soul never turns back for
anything, whatever it be, nor rises from holy prayer, for any
reason except (note well) for obedience or charity s sake.
For no other reason ought she to leave off prayer, for,
during the time ordained for prayer, the Devil is wont to
arrive in the soul, causing much more conflict and trouble
than when the soul is not occupied in prayer. This he
does in order that holy prayer may become tedious to the
soul, tempting her often with these words : This prayer
avails thee nothing, for thou needest attend to nothing except thy
vocal prayers? He acts thus in order that, becoming
wearied and confused in mind, she may abandon the exercise
of prayer, which is a weapon with which the soul can
defend herself from every adversary, if grasped with the
hand of love, by the arm of free choice in the light of the
Holy Faith."

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 137

CHAPTER LXVI.

Here, touching something concerning the Sacrament of the Body of
Christ, the complete doctrine is given ; and how the soul proceeds
from vocal to mental prayer, and a vision is related which this
devout soul once received.

11 KNOW, dearest daughter, how, by humble, continual and
faithful prayer, the soul acquires, with time and perseverance,
every virtue. Wherefore should she persevere and never
abandon prayer, either through the illusion of the Devil or
her own fragility, that is to say, either on account of any
thought or movement coming from her own body, or of
the words of any creature. The Devil often places himself
upon the tongues of creatures, causing them to chatter
nonsensically, with the purpose of preventing the prayer of
the soul. All of this she should pass by, by means of the
virtue of perseverance. Oh, how sweet and pleasant to that
soul and to Me is holy prayer, made in the house of know
ledge of self and of Me, opening the eye of the intellect to
the light of faith, and the affections to the abundance of My
charity, which was made visible to you, through My visible
only-begotten Son, who showed it to you with His Blood !
Which Blood inebriates the soul and clothes her with the
fire of divine charity, giving her the food of the Sacrament
[which is placed in the tavern of the mystical body of the
Holy Church] that is to say, the food of the Body and Blood
of My Son, wholly God and wholly man, administered to
you by the hand of My vicar, who holds the key of the
Blood. This is that tavern, which I mentioned to thee,
standing on the Bridge, to provide food and comfort for the
travellers and the pilgrims, who pass by the way of the
doctrine of My Truth, lest they should faint through weak
ness. This food strengthens little or much, according to
the desire of the recipient, whether he receives sacrament-
ally or virtually. He receives sacramentally when he actually
communicates with the Blessed Sacrament. He receives
virtually when he communicates, both by desire of com-

138 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

munion, and by contemplation of the Blood of Christ cruci
fied, communicating, as it were, sacramentally, with the
affection of love, which is to be tasted in the Blood Which,
as the soul sees, was shed through love. On seeing this
the soul becomes inebriated, and blazes with holy desire and
satisfies herself, becoming full of love for Me and for her
neighbour. Where can this be acquired ? In the house
of self-knowledge with holy prayer, where imperfections are
lost, even as Peter and the disciples, while they remained
in watching and prayer, lost their imperfection and acquired
perfection. By what means is this acquired ? By perse
verance seasoned with the most holy faith.

" But do not think that the soul receives such ardour and
nourishment from prayer, if she pray only vocally, as do
many souls whose prayers are rather words than love.
Such as these give heed to nothing except to completing
Psalms and saying many paternosters. And when they
have once completed their appointed tale, they do not
appear to think of anything further, but seem to place
devout attention and love in merely vocal recitation, which
the soul is not required to do, for, in doing only this, she
bears but little fruit, which pleases Me but little. But if
thou askest Me, whether the soul should abandon vocal
prayer, since it does not seem to all that they are called to
mental prayer, I should reply No. The soul should
advance by degrees, and I know well that, just as the soul
is at first imperfect and afterwards perfect, so also is it.
with her prayer. She should nevertheless continue in vocal
prayer, while she is yet imperfect, so as not to fall into
idleness. But she should not say her vocal prayers with
out joining them to mental prayer, that is to say, that,
while she is reciting, she should endeavour to elevate her
mind in My love, with the consideration of her own defects
and of the Blood of My only-begotten Son, wherein she
finds the breadth of My charity and the remission of her
sins. And this she should do, so that self-knowledge and
the consideration of her own defects should make her
recognise My goodness in herself and continue her exer
cises with true humility. I do not wish defects to be con-

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 139

sidered in particular, but in general, so that the mind may
not be contaminated by the remembrance of particular and
hideous sins. But, as I said, I do not wish the soul to
consider her sins, either in general or in particular, without
also remembering the Blood and the broadness of My
mercy, for fear that otherwise she should be brought to
confusion. And together with confusion would come the
Devil, who has caused it, under colour of contrition and
displeasure of sin, and so she would arrive at eternal
damnation, not only on account of her confusion, but also
through the despair which would come to her, because she
did not seize the arm of My mercy. This is one of the
subtle devices with which the Devil deludes My servants,
and, in order to escape from his deceit, and to be pleasing
to Me, you must enlarge your hearts and affections in My
boundless mercy, with true humility. Thou knowest that
the pride of the Devil cannot resist the humble mind, nor
can any confusion of spirit be greater than the broadness
of My good mercy, if the soul will only truly hope therein.
Wherefore it was, if thou remember rightly, that, once,
when the Devil wished to overthrow thee, by confusion,
wishing to prove to thee that thy life had been deluded,
and that thou hadst not followed My will, thou didst that
which was thy duty, which My goodness (which is never
withheld from him who will receive it) gave thee strength
to do, that is thou didst rise, humbly trusting in My
mercy, and saying : / confess to my Creator that my life
has indeed been passed in darkness , but I will hide myself in
the Wounds of Christ crucified, and bathe myself in His
Blood and so shall my iniquities be consumed, and with desire
will I rejoice in my Creator! Thou rememberest that then
the Devil fled, and, turning round to the opposite side, he
endeavoured to inflate thee with pride, saying : Thou art
perfect and pleasing to God, and there is no more need for
thee to afflict thyself or to lament thy sins. And once more
I gave thee the light to see thy true path, namely, humi
liation of thyself, and thou didst answer the Devil with
these words : * Wretch that I am, John the Baptist never
sinned and was sanctified in his mother s womb. And I

140 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

have committed so many sins, and have hardly begun to know
them with grief and true contrition, seeing Who God is. Who
is offended by me, and who I am, who offend Him. Then,
the Devil, not being able to resist thy humble hope in My
goodness, said to thee : Cursed that thou art, for I can
find no way to take thee. If I put thee down through confusion ,
thou risest to Heaven on the wings of mercy, and if I raise
thee on high, thou humblest thyself down to Hell, and when I
go into Hell thou persecutes^ me, so that I will return to thee no
more, because thou strikest me with the stick of charity. The
soul, therefore, should season the knowledge of herself with
the knowledge of My goodness, and then vocal prayer will
be of use to the soul who makes it, and pleasing to Me,
and she will arrive, from the vocal imperfect prayer, exer
cised with perseverance, at perfect mental prayer ; but if
she simply aims at completing her tale, and, for vocal,
abandons mental prayer, she will never arrive at it. Some
times the soul will be so ignorant that, having resolved to
say so many prayers vocally, and I, visiting her mind,
sometimes in one way, and sometimes in another, in a flash of
self-knowledge or of contrition for sin, sometimes in the broad
ness of My charity, and sometimes by placing before her mind,
in diverse ways, according to My pleasure and the desire of
the soul, the presence of My Truth, she (the soul), in order
to complete her tale, will abandon My visitation, that she
feels, as it were, by conscience, rather than abandon that
which she had begun. She should not do so, for, in so
doing, she yields to a deception of the Devil. The moment
she feels her mind disposed by My visitation, in the many
ways I have told thee, she should abandon vocal prayer ;
then, My visitation past, if there be time, she can resume
the vocal prayers which she had resolved to say, but if she
has not time to complete them, she ought not on that
account to be troubled or suffer annoyance and confusion of
mind ; of course provided that it were not the Divine office
which clerics and religious are bound and obliged to say
under penalty of offending Me, for, they must, until death,
say their office. But if they, at the hour appointed for
saying it, should feel their minds drawn and raised by
desire, they should so arrange as to say it before or after

A TREATISE OF PRAYER i 4 p

My visitation, so that the debt of rendering the office be
not omitted. But, in any other case, vocal prayer should be
immediately abandoned for the said cause. Vocal prayer,
made in the way that I have told thee, will enable the
soul to arrive at perfection, and therefore she should not
abandon it, but use it in the way that I have told thee.

And so, with exercise in perseverance, she will taste prayer
in truth, and the food of the Blood of My only-begotten
Son, and therefore I told thee that some communicated
virtually with the Body and Blood of Christ, although not
sacramentally ; that is, they communicate in the affection of
charity, which they taste by means of holy prayer, little or
much, according to the affection with which they pray.
They who proceed with little prudence and without method,
taste little, and they who proceed with much, taste much.
For the more the soul tries to loosen her affection from her
self, and fasten it in Me with the light of the intellect, the
more she knows ; and the more she knows, the more she
loves, and, loving much, she tastes much. Thou seest then,
that perfect prayer is not attained to through many words,
but through affection of desire, the soul raising herself to Me,
with knowledge of herself and of My mercy, seasoned the
one with the other. Thus she will exercise together mental
and vocal prayer, for, even as the active and contemplative
life is one, so are they. Although vocal or mental prayer
can be understood in many and diverse ways, for I have
told thee that a holy desire is a continual prayer, in this-
sense that a good and holy will disposes itself with desire
to the occasion actually appointed for prayer in addition
to the continual prayer of holy desire, wherefore vocal
prayer will be made at the appointed time by the soul who
remains firm in a habitual holy will, and will sometimes be
continued beyond the appointed time, according as charity
commands for the salvation of the neighbour, if the soul see
him to be in need, and also her own necessities according
to the state in which I have placed her. Each one, according
to his condition, ought to exert himself for the salvation of
souls, for this exercise lies at the root of a holy will, and
whatever he may contribute, by words or deeds, towards the
salvation of his neighbour, is virtually a prayer, although it

M2 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

does not replace a prayer which one should make oneself
at the appointed season, as My glorious standard-bearer
Paul said, in the words, He who ceases not to work ceases
not to pray? It was for this reason that I told thee that
prayer was made in many ways, that is, that actual prayer
may be united with mental prayer if made with the affection
of charity, which charity is itself continual prayer. I have
now told thee how mental prayer is reached by exercise and
perseverance, and by leaving vocal prayer for mental when
I visit the soul. I have also spoken to thee of common
prayer, that is, of vocal prayer in general, made outside of
ordained times, and of the prayers of good-will, and how
every exercise, whether performed, in oneself or in one s
neighbour, with good- will, is prayer. The enclosed soul
should therefore spur herself on with prayer, and when she
has arrived at friendly and filial love she does so. Unless
the soul keep to this path, she will always remain tepid and
imperfect, and will only love Me and her neighbour in pro
portion to the pleasure which she finds in My service."

CHAPTER LXVII.

Of the mistake which worldly men make who desire to serve God
for their own consolation and delight.

" I WISH to tell thee somewhat of imperfect love, and not
.conceal from thee one snare, which those who love Me for
their own consolation alone, may fall into. I would have
thee know that My servant, who loves Me imperfectly, seeks
rather the consolation, on account of which he loves Me, than
Myself, and it is to be observed that, when he fails to
obtain either spiritual or temporal consolation, he is troubled.
This often shows itself in regard to temporal consolation in
men of the world, who practise every act of virtue as long
as they live prosperously. But when tribulation comes
upon them, which I send them for their good, they are
disturbed, and do no longer that little good which they
once did ; and if one should ask them, " Why are you
disturbed ? " they reply, " Because we have received tribula-

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 143

tion, and that little good which we did seems to be almost
lost, because we no longer do it with that heart and
courage which we used to possess, on account of the
tribulations which we have received, for it seems to us
that we exerted ourselves more when our hearts were
at rest than we do now." Such as these are deceived
by their own delight, for it is not true that tribulation
causes them to love and work less. The works which
they do in the time of tribulation are worth as much
in themselves as those which they did before in the time of
consolation ; they might indeed be worth more if the
murmurers had patience. But this comes to them because
they delighted in their own prosperity, while they loved Me
with but slight virtue, in order to pacify their conscience.
Being deprived of that on which they really rested, it seems
to them that the repose, in which they exerted themselves,
is taken away from them, but it is not so, for it happens to
them as to a man in a garden who, because he takes
pleasure in the garden, finds peace of mind and repose in
working in it ; that is to say, that it seems to him that he
finds repose in his labours, but he is really all the time
reposing in the delight caused him by the garden. He
takes more delight in the garden than in his labours,
because when the garden is taken away from him he feels
himself deprived of the pleasure, for had his principal
pleasure been placed in his labours he would not have lost
it, but would have it still with him. For the exercise of
working well cannot be lost unless a man be willing to lose
it. From such as these the delight of prosperity, the
garden, as it were, in which they worked, has been taken
away, so that they have deceived themselves. Therefore
they deceive themselves in working for their own pleasure,
and acquire the habit of saying, " I know that I did better
and had more consolation before I was troubled than now,
and I rejoiced in doing good, but now I take no delight
therein." Their sight and their speech is false, because, if
they had had delight in doing good for love of virtue, they
would not have lost it, neither would it have failed, but
rather increased. But it fails because their good works

144 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

were founded upon love of their own consolation. In this
way are people in general deceived in all their good works,
that is, through love of their own consolation and of the
delight which they find in Me.

CHAPTER LXVIII.

How the servants of God are deceived who go on loving God
in the aforesaid way.

" BUT My servants, who are still in the imperfect love, seek
and love Me because of the affection they have towards the
consolation and delight they find in Me, and because I am
the Rewarder of every good which is done, great or small,
according to the measure of the love of him who receives the
reward. For this reason I give mental consolation during
the time of prayer, sometimes in one way and sometimes in
another. I do not this in order that the soul ignorantly
receive the consolation, that is, that she regard more the
consolation than Me Who give it, but in order that she
may regard the affection of My charity with which I give
it, and the unworthiness with which she receives it, more
than the delight of her own consolation. But if, ignorantly,
she takes hold of the delight alone, without regarding My
affection, she will receive damage from it and fall into
snares of which I will tell thee ; one being that, deceived
by her own consolation, she seeks this consolation and
therein delights herself, and moreover, having at some
former time experienced the consolation of My visitation in
one way or another, she will endeavour to go back by the
way which she has come, in order again to experience
the same consolation. But I do not grant the consolation
of My visitations in one way alone, which would appear as
if I had but one way in which to do so, but I grant it in
diverse ways, according as pleases My goodness, and
according to the need and the necessity of the soul. But
the soul, in her ignorance, will, nevertheless, seek My con
solations in that way alone which she has experienced,
thereby, as it were, imposing laws on the Holy Spirit.

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 145

She should not do so, but should pass on manfully by the
doctrine of Christ crucified, receiving what it pleases My
Goodness to give her, and in the manner, time and place
that I choose. And if, nevertheless, I give not, it is
through love and not through hatred, and that she may
seek and love Me in truth, and not for her own delight,
receiving My charity with humility. If she still goes on
delighting in her own way and not in mine, when the
object upon which she has fixed the eye of her intellect
and in which alone she delights is taken from her, she will
experience pain and intolerable confusion.

" Such as these, of whom I have spoken, desire to choose
their own consolations in their own way, and so to go
through life, and their ignorance is at times so great that,
having imagined a particular consolation, and I, visiting
them in any way except that of their imagination, they will
resist Me and will not receive Me. A soul who would act
thus is deceived by her own pleasure and spiritual delight,
for it would be impossible to remain always in one state.
She must either go forward to the virtues or turn right
backwards. And neither could the mind remain stationary
in the enjoyment of one delight alone without My Goodness
increasing that delight. Many are the kinds of delights
that I give to the soul sometimes the delight of a mental
joyousness, sometimes of contrition and displeasure of self,
and, at times, I may be in the soul and she will not feel Me ;
or I may form My Will, that is, My Incarnate Word, before
the eye of the intellect, and it will not seem to her that she
experiences that heat and delight in the sentiment of her
soul at such a vision. At other times she will feel without any
mental vision the greatest delight. These various methods
I use through love to preserve her and to increase, in her,
humility and perseverance, and to show her that she need
place no rules for me, nor seek her end in consolation, but
only in virtue founded in Me, and to teach her with
humility to receive what I choose to give her in My own
time and manner, and to believe, with lively faith, that I
give her what I give, either for her own salvation or to
bring her to great perfection.

146 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

" She should then remain humble, making her beginning
and end to be in My charity, and taking delight in this
charity alone, according to My will and not according to
hers. The only way not to be deceived is to receive
everything through love of Me, being rooted and grounded
in My sweet Will."

CHAPTER LXIX.

Of those who, in order not to lose their own peace of mind and
consolations, do not succour their neighbour in his necessities.

" I HAVE told thee how they are deceived who desire to taste
and receive Me mentally in their own way, and now I wish
to tell thee of the second mistake they make, who have placed
all their delight in the receiving of mental consolation. They
will ofttimes see their neighbour in necessity, spiritual or
temporal, and they will not succour him, under pretence of
virtue, saying, If I do so I shall lose my peace and quiet of
mind, or I shall not be able to say my Hours at the right time
For they think that if they receive no consolation, I am
thereby offended, but they are deceived by their own mental
and spiritual delight, for they offend Me more by not relieving
their neighbour s necessity, than if they had abandoned all
those things whereby they receive consolation ; for all vocal
and mental exercise is ordained by Me to bring the soul to
perfect love of Me, and of the neighbour, and to preserve
her in this love. Therefore, in failing in love to his neigh
bour, a man offends Me more than if he had abandoned his
ordinary exercise and lost his peace of mind ; and, moreover,
he would truly find Me in exercising love towards his neigh
bour, whereas, in seeking delight in his own consolation, he
is deprived of Me, for by not succouring his neighbour
immediately, his love for, him diminishes, and his love for
his neighbour diminishing, My affection towards him also
diminishes, and thus is his consolation diminished too. So
that, thinking to gain, he loses, and where he would think
to lose, he gains. That is, being willing to lose his own

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 147

consolation for his neighbour s salvation, he receives and
gains Me, and the neighbour too, succouring him and
serving him charitably, and tasting each time he does so,
the sweetness of My love. But, not doing so, he suffers
pain, for it sometimes happens that he will be obliged, either
through love or force of circumstances, to help his neighbour
either for some spiritual or corporal infirmity, and, doing it
in this way, he does it with mental tedium, being pricked
by conscience, and becomes insupportable to himself and to
others. And should any one ask him : Why dost thou
feel this pain ? He would reply : / seem to have lost all
peace and quiet of mind, and many things that I used to do
I have left off, and I think that thereby I have offended God.
But he is mistaken. He has placed the vision of the eye of
his intellect on his own delight alone, and therefore he dis
cerns not, nor knows where his offence truly lies. Because,
could he discern, he would see that his offence does not con
sist in not having his customary mental consolation, or in
having abandoned the exercise of prayer in the time of his
neighbour s need, but in having been found without true
love for his neighbour, whom he should love and serve
through love of Me.

" So that thou seest how spiritual self-love alone is capable
of deceiving the soul."

CHAPTER LXX.

Of the deception, which those fall into, who have placed all their
affections in consolations and mental visions.

" SOMETIMES, through such love as this, the soul receives even
more damage than if her affection is altogether placed in
consolations and visions which I often give to My servants,
for, when she feels herself deprived of them, she falls into
bitterness and tedium of mind, for it seems to her that she
is deprived of grace, though I have only withdrawn Myself
from her mind by sentiment, and not by grace, as I have
told thee that I often do, in order to bring the soul to per-

148 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

fection. So she falls into bitterness, and seems to herself to
have entered into Hell, feeling no delight, but the molesta
tion of many temptations. She should not be so ignorant,
nor allow herself to be so deceived by spiritual self-love ;
but she does not know Me truly in herself, Who am her
Supreme Good, preserving to her My goodwill in the time
of battle, though she does not hasten to the warfare with
delight. She should rather humiliate herself, deeming her
self unworthy of peace and quiet of mind. For this purpose
do I withdraw from her, so that she may humiliate herself
and learn My charity in her, seeing the goodwill which I
preserve to her in the time of battle, and also that she may
not only receive the milk of sweetness sprinkled by Me on
the face of her soul, but that, clinging to the breast of My
Truth, she may receive milk together with meat, that is,
may draw to herself the milk of My charity, by means of
the Flesh of Christ crucified; which is the Doctrine of which
I have made for you a Bridge, by crossing which you arrive
at Me, Who have withdrawn Myself from you for this pur
pose. Wherefore, to souls who act with prudence, not
ignorantly receiving the milk alone, I return with more
delight and strength, with more light and ardour of charity.
But if, on the other hand, they endure with tedium and sad -
ness and confusion of mind, the suffering caused them by
the loss of mental sweetness, they gain but little, and remain
in their tepidity."

CHAPTER LXXI.

How it is possible for the aforesaid souls, who take delight in
consolations and mental visions, to be deceived by the Devil in a
form of light ; and how to know when a vision is from GOD, and
when from the Devil.

" ANOTHER delusion that the Devil often practises upon such
souls is, that he transforms himself into a form of light.
For, seeing the soul to be disposed to desire and receive
such a form, her mind being absorbed, and her desires placed

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 149

in consolations and mental visions alone, (which should not
be so, for the soul should place her desires in virtue alone,
deeming herself unworthy of consolation), he transforms him
self into a form of light in diverse ways, sometimes as an
angel, and sometimes as My Truth, or as one of My saints,
doing so in order to catch that soul with the hook of her
own spiritual delight, which consists in visions and mental
pleasure. And if this soul does not rise above herself with
true humility, despising every delight, she will remain, caught
by the hook, in the hands of the Devil ; but if she, with
humility, disdaining the bait of delight, will bind her affec
tions fast to Me, Who am the Giver, and not to the gift, she
will be released, for the Devil, on account of his pride,
cannot bear a humble mind.

" If thou askest Me how it is to be known whether a
visitation is from Me or from the Devil, I reply to thee
that this is the sign. If it is the Devil who has come into
thy mind in a form of light, as has been said, to visit it,
thou wilt suddenly feel in his coming great joyousness, but
as he stays thou wilt gradually lose joyousness, and thy
mind will be left in tedium or excitement, darkening thee
within. But if the soul is in truth visited by Me, Eternal
Truth, she will, in the first sensation, experience holy fear,
and with this fear joy and security, with a sweet prudence,
that in doubting does not doubt, the soul, deeming herself
unworthy, saying, / am not worthy to receive Thy visita
tion, and, not being worthy, how can such a thing be ?
But she will then turn to the broadness of My charity,
knowing and seeing that it is possible for Me to give, and
that I do not regard her unworthiness, but rather My
worthiness, which makes her worthy to receive Me,
through grace, in sentiment ; and she will see that I do not
despise her desire when she calls to Me, and she will
humbly receive Me, saying, Behold thine handmaid. Thy
will be done in Me. And she will arise from her prayer
and My visitation with joyousness, and will humbly
rejoice in mind, deeming herself unworthy, but, recognising
with love her joyousness as coming from Me.

" This, then, that I have told thee, is the sign by which

150 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

the soul may know whether her visitation is of Me or of
the Devil. If it be of Me, her first sensation will be one
of holy fear, her second, joyousness, and at the end she
will feel joy and hunger for the virtues. And if it be of
the Devil, the first sensation is joyousness, but the mind is
left in confusion and darkness.

" I have thus shown thee a means by which the soul, if
she will go humbly and with prudence, cannot be deceived,
which she will be if she tries to navigate herself by means
of her own imperfect love of consolations, rather than by
love of Me, as I have told thee."

CHAPTER LXXII.

How the soul who truly knows herself, wisely guards against
all the aforesaid deceptions.

" I HAVE not wanted to conceal from thee the deception
that common folk receive through sensitive love, through
the small good which they practise, that is to say, through
that little virtue which they exercise in times of spiritual
consolation, or the spiritual self-love which My servants
have in their own consolations, and how they deceive them
selves with the self-love of delight, which does not let them
know the truth of My affection, nor discern their own
guilt, and the deception which the Devil practises on them,
through their own fault, if they keep not the way which I
have told thee. And all these things I have told thee, so
that thou and My servants may walk in virtue, through
love of Me, and nothing else. But they who love Me with
imperfect love, that is, who love Me for My gifts and not
for Myself, Who am the Giver, fall into all these perils and
deceptions. But the soul who has in truth entered the
House of Self-Knowledge, and, by the exercise of perfect
prayer, has raised herself from the imperfect love of
imperfect prayer, by the means of which I speak to thee in
this Treatise on Prayer, receives Me, through affection of

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 151

love, seeking to draw to herself the milk of My sweetness
from the breast of the doctrine of Christ crucified. And
when these souls have attained to the third state, that is, to
friendly and filial love, they have no longer any mercenary
love, but they act as do very dear friends. For, as the eye
of one, on being given a present by his friend, does not
turn to the gift alone but also to the heart of the giver,
receiving and keeping the present for the sake of the
affection which gave it, so the soul, who has attained to
the third state of perfect love, when she receives My gifts
and graces, looks not only at the gifts, but, with the eye
of her intellect, looks at the affection of charity of Me,
the Giver. And, in order that she may have no excuse for
not doing so, in My Providence I have united the Gift
with the Giver, that is, the Divine nature with the human
nature, when I gave you the Word of My only- begotten
Son, Who is one thing with Me and I with Him. So that,
by this union, you cannot look at the Gift without looking
at Me, the Giver. Thou seest then with how great affec
tion thou shouldest love and desire both Gift and Giver.
Doing thus your love will be pure and not mercenary, as
is the love of those who remain barred up in the House of
Self-Knowledge."

CHAPTER LXXIII.

Of the method by which the soul separates herself from imperfect
love, and attains to perfect love, friendly and filial.

" HITHERTO I have shown thee in many ways how the soul
raises herself from imperfection and attains to perfection,
which she does after she has attained to friendly and filial
love. I tell thee that she arrives at perfect love by means
of perseverance, barring herself into the House of Self-
Knowledge, which knowledge of self requires to be seasoned
with knowledge of Me, lest it bring the soul to confusion,
for it would cause the soul to hate her own sensitive
pleasure and the delight of her own consolations. But

iS2 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

from this hatred, founded in humility, she will draw patience,
with which she will become strong against the attacks of
the Devil, against the persecutions of man, and towards
Me, when, for her good, I withdraw delight from her mind.
And if her sensuality, through malevolence, should lift its
head against reason, the judgment of conscience should rise
against it, and, with hatred of it, hold out reason against it,
not allowing such evil emotions to get by it. Though
y sometimes the soul who lives in holy hatred corrects and
reproves herself, not only for those things that are against
reason, but also for things that in reality come from Me,
which is what My sweet servant S. Gregory meant, when
he said that a holy and pure conscience made sin where
there was no sin, that is, that through purity of conscience,
it saw sin where there was no sin.

"Now the soul who wishes to rise above imperfection
should await My Providence in the House of Self-Know
ledge, with the light of faith, as did the disciples, who
remained in the house in perseverance and in watching,
and in humble and continual prayer, awaiting the coming
of the Holy Spirit. She should remain fasting and watch
ing, the eye of her intellect fastened on the doctrine of
My Truth, and she will become humble because she will
know herself in humble and continual prayer and holy and
true desire."

CHAPTER LXXIV.

Of the signs by which the soul knows she has arrived
at perfect love.

" IT now remains to be told thee how it can be seen that
souls have arrived at perfect love. This is seen by the
same sign that was given to the holy disciples after they
had received the Holy Spirit, when they came forth from the
house, and fearlessly announced the doctrine of My Word,
My only-begotten Son, not fearing pain, but rather glory
ing therein. They did not mind going before the tyrants of

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 153

the world, to announce to them the truth, for the glory and
praise of My Name. So the soul, who has awaited Me in
self-knowledge as I have told thee, receives Me, on My
return to her, with the fire of charity, in which charity,
while still remaining in the house with perseverance, she
conceives the virtues by affection of love, participating in My
power ; with which power and virtues she overrules and
conquers her own sensitive passions, and through which
charity she participates in the wisdom of My Son, in which
she sees and knows, with the eye of her intellect, My Truth
and the deceptions of spiritual self-love, that is, the imperfect
love of her own consolations, as has been said, and she
knows also the malice and deceit of the devil, which he
practises on those souls who are bound by that imperfect
love. She therefore arises, with hatred of that imperfection
and with love of perfection, and, through this charity, which
is of the Holy Spirit, she participates in His will, fortifying
her own to be willing to suffer pain, and, coming out of the
house through My Name, she brings forth the virtues on
her neighbour. Not that by coming out to bring forth the
virtues, I mean that she issues out of the House of Self-
Knowledge, but that, in^the time of the neighbour s necessity
she loses that fear of being deprived of her own consolations,
and so issues forth to give birth to those virtues which she
has conceived through affection of love. The souls, who
have thus come forth, have reached the fourth state, that is,
from the third state, which is a perfect state, in which they
taste charity and give birth to it on their neighbours, they
have arrived at the fourth state, which is one of perfect
union with Me. The two last-mentioned states are
united, that is to say, one cannot be without the other, for
there cannot be love of Me, without love of the neighbour,
nor love of the neighbour without love of Me."

154 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

CHAPTER LXXV.

How they who are imperfect desire to follow the Father alone, but
they who are perfect desire to follow the Son. And of a vision,
which this holy soul had, concerning diverse baptisms, and of
many other beautiful and useful things.

" As I have told thee, these latter have issued forth from
the house, which is a sign that they have arisen from
imperfection and arrived at perfection. Open the eye of
thy intellect and see them running by the Bridge of the
doctrine of Christ crucified, which was their rule, way and
doctrine. They place none other before the eye of their
intellect than Christ crucified, not the Father, as they do
who are in imperfect love and do not wish to suffer pain,
but only to have the delight which they find in Me. But
they, as if drunken with love and burning with it, have
gathered together and ascended the three steps, which I
figured to thee as the three powers of the soul, and also the
three actual steps, figured to thee as in the Body of My
only Son, Christ crucified, by which steps the soul, as I
told thee, ascended, first climbing to the Feet, with the feet of
the soul s affection, from thence arriving at the Side, where
she found the secret of the Heart and knew the baptism
of water, which has virtue through the Blood, and where I
dispose the soul to receive grace, uniting and kneading her
together in the Blood. Where did the soul know of this
her dignity, in being kneaded and united with the Blood of
the Lamb, receiving the grace in Holy Baptism, in virtue of
the Blood ? In the Side, where she knew the fire of divine
Charity, and so, if thou remember well, My Truth mani
fested to thee, when thou askedst, saying : Sweet and
Immaculate Lamb, Thou wen dead when Thy side was
opened. Why then didst Thou want to be struck and have
Thy heart divided ? And He replied to thee, telling thee
that there was occasion enough for it ; but the principal
part of what He said I will tell thee. He said : Because
My desire towards the human generation was ended, and I

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 155

had finished the actual work of bearing pain and torment,
and yet I had not been able to show, by finite things,
because My love was infinite, how much more love I had,
I wished thee to see the secret of the Heart, showing it to
thee open, so that thou mightest see how much more I loved
than I could show thee by finite pain. I poured from it Blood
and Water, to show thee the baptism of water, which is
received in virtue of the Blood. I also showed the baptism
of love in two ways, first in those who are baptised in their
blood, shed for Me, which has virtue through My Blood,
even if they have not been able to have Holy Baptism,
and also in those who are baptised in fire, not being
able to have Holy Baptism, but desiring it with the affec
tion of love. There is no baptism of fire without the
Blood, because the Blood is steeped in and kneaded with
the fire of Divine charity, because, through love was It
shed. There is yet another way by which the soul receives
the baptism of Blood, speaking, as it were, under a figure,
and this way the Divine charity provided, knowing the
infirmity and fragility of man, through which he offends,
not that he is obliged, through his fragility and infirmity, to
commit sin unless he wish to do so ; but, falling, as he will,
into the guilt of mortal sin, by which he loses the grace
which he drew from Holy Baptism in virtue of the Blood, it
was necessary to leave a continual baptism of Blood. This
the Divine charity provided in the Sacrament of Holy
Confession, the soul receiving the Baptism of Blood, with
contrition of heart, confessing, when able, to My ministers,
who hold the keys of the Blood, sprinkling It, in absolu
tion, upon the face of the soul. But, if the soul be unable
to confess, contrition of heart is sufficient for this baptism,
the hand of My clemency giving you the fruit of this
precious Blood. But if you are able to confess, I wish you
to do so, and if you are able to, and do not, you will be
deprived of the fruit of the Blood. It is true that, in the
last extremity, a man, desiring to confess and not being
able to, will receive the fruit of this baptism, of which I
have been speaking. But let no one be so mad as so to
arrange his deeds, that, in the hope of receiving it, he puts

156 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

off confessing until the last extremity of death, when he may
not be able to do so. In which case, it is not at all certain
that I shall not say to him, in My Divine Justice : Thou
didst not remember Me in the time of thy life, when thou
couldest, now will I not remember thee in thy death. 1

" Thou seest then that these Baptisms, which you should
all receive until the last moment, are continual, and though
My works, that is the pains of the Cross were finite, the
fruit of them which you receive in Baptism, through Me,
are infinite. This is in virtue of the infinite Divine nature,
united with the finite human nature, which human nature
endures pain in Me, the Word, clothed with your humanity.
But because the one nature is steeped in and united with
the other, the Eternal Deity drew to Himself the pain,
which I suffered with so much fire and love. And therefore
can this operation be called infinite, not that My pain,
neither the actuality of the body be infinite, nor the pain of
the desire that I had to complete your redemption, because
it was terminated and finished on the Cross, when the Soul
was separated from the Body ; but the fruit, which came out
of the pain and desire for your salvation, is infinite, and
therefore you receive it infinitely. Had it not been infinite,
the whole human generation could not have been restored
to grace, neither the past, the present, nor the future.
This I manifested in the opening of My Side, where is
found the secret of the Heart, showing that I loved more
than I could show, with finite pain. I showed to thee that
My love was infinite. How*? By the Baptism of Blood,
united with the fire of My charity, and by the general
baptism, given to Christians, and to whomsoever will
receive it, and by the baptism of water, united with the
Blood and the fire, wherein the soul is steeped. And, in
order to show this, it was necessary for the Blood to come
out of My Side. Now I have shown thee (said My Truth
to thee) what thou askedst of Me."

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 157

CHAPTER LXXVI.

How the soul, having mounted the third step of the holy Bridge,
that is, having arrived at the Mouth, at once makes use of it
and how the death of self-will is the true sign that the soul has
arrived there.

" Now I say to thee, that all this, which I have just narrated
to thee, as thou knowest, in the person of My Truth, was nar
rated to thee, so that thou mightest know the excellence of the
state of that soul, who has ascended the second step, where
she learns and acquires so much fire of love, and from
whence she immediately runs to the third, that is, to the
Mouth, which proves her to have arrived at the perfect state.
Through what did she pass ? Through the midst of the
Heart, that is the Blood, wherein she was re-baptised,
leaving imperfect love, through the knowledge that she
drew from the cordial love, seeing, tasting and proving the
fire of My chanty.

" Such, then, have arrived at the Mouth, and they show
it by taking the office of the mouth. The mouth speaks by
means of the tongue, which is in the mouth, and tastes by
means of the palate, giving to the stomach what the mouth
retains and which has been chewed by the teeth to make it
fit to be swallowed. The soul does likewise. First she
speaks to me, with the tongue, which is in the mouth of holy
desire, that is to say, the tongue of holy and continual
prayer. This tongue speaks actually and mentally, mentally
offering to Me sweet and amorous desires for the salvation
of souls, and actually announcing the doctrine of My Truth,
admonishing, counselling, confessing without fear of any
pain which the world may cause her. I say that she eats,
taking the food of souls, for My honour, on the table of
the Cross, and on no other table and in no other way
could she eat perfectly and in truth. She then chews with
the teeth of hatred and love ; that is, hatred of vice and love
of virtue, which are the two rows of teeth in the mouth of
holy desire, for otherwise she would not be able to swallow
the food of souls.

158 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

She chews, I say, for the sake of the salvation of souls,
insults, villainies, reproofs and persecutions, enduring
hunger and thirst, cold and heat, painful desires and tears
and sweat, and she chews them all for My honour, bearing
and supporting her neighbour. She then tastes the relish
of the fruit of toil and the delight of the food of souls, in
fire of My love and that of her neighbour. The food then
reaches the stomach, that is, the stomach of the heart,
which, by desire and the soul s hunger, is disposed to receive
it, with cordial love and delight and affection for the neigh
bour. Delighting in the food, the stomach of the heart
heaps it up by the aforesaid process, and loses corporal
hunger, becoming able to take the food of the table of the
doctrine of Christ crucified. The soul fattens on the
royal and true virtues, and swells so greatly through the
abundance of her food that her clothing of sensuality, that
is to say her body, which covers the soul, bursts, and the body
that bursts is dead; thus is the sensitive will of the soul dead,
but the spiritual will is living, clothed in My eternal Will.

Now this death of the sensitive will, after the soul had
eaten of the affection of My charity, is the sign, by which
it is known, in truth, that the soul has arrived at the third
step, that is the Mouth. And in the Mouth she found
peace and quiet, and nothing can disturb her peace and quiet,
because her sensitive will is dead. They who have arrived
at this step, bring forth the virtues upon their neighbour
without pain, not because pain is no longer painful to them,
but because, their sensitive will being dead, they voluntarily
bear pain for My sake. They run without negligence, by
the doctrine of Christ crucified, and slacken not their pace
on account of the persecutions, injuries or pleasures of
the world. They pass by all these things, with fortitude and
perseverance, their affection, clothed in the affection of
charity, and eating the food of souls with true and perfect
patience, which patience is a sign that the soul is in
perfect love, loving without any consideration of self.
For did she love Me and her neighbour for her own profit,
she would, in impatience, slacken her steps, but, loving
Me, Who am the Supreme Being and worthy to be loved, she

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 159

loves herself and her neighbour through Me alone, caring
only for the glory and praise of My name, which causes
her to be patient and strong to suffer, and persevering."

CHAPTER LXXVII.

Of the works of the soul after she has ascended the
aforesaid holy step.

" THE three glorious virtues which crown the soul who,
with the light of the most holy faith, has attained to the
summit of this charity, are Patience, Fortitude, and Perse
verance, and, in the light of the most holy faith, she now
runs the way of the truth without darkness, and is so raised
on high by holy desire, that no one can offend her, neither
the devil, with his temptations, because he fears the soul
burning in the furnace of holy charity, nor men with their
injuries and detractions, for, though the world may persecute
her, it fears her, and such trials as the devil or the world
may cause her, I permit in My Goodness, and, because she
makes herself small through humility, I fortify her and
make her great before the world. As thou hast seen well
in My saints, who, for My sake, made themselves small, and
I have made them great in eternal life and in the mystic
body of My Holy Church, where mention is always made
of them, because their names are written in the Book of
Life, and the world holds them in reverence, because they
despised it. Such as they hide not their virtue through
fear, but through humility, and, if their neighbour needs
their service, they do not hide themselves for fear of
trouble or of losing their own consolation, but they serve
him manfully not caring what they lose thereby themselves.
And in whatever way they use their life and time in My
honour, they rejoice, finding for themselves peace and quiet
of mind. Why is it thus with them ? Because they do
not choose to serve Me in their way, but in My way, and,
for that reason, times of consolation appear to them as heavy

i6o THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

as times of tribulation, and the time of prosperity as that of
adversity. The one seems to them the same as the other,
because in everything they see My will, and they think of
nothing except of conforming themselves in every time and
place to My will. They have seen that nothing is made
without Me, and that all, except sin, is made with mystery
and Divine Providence, therefore, except sin which they
hate, they hold everything in reverence. Their will is
therefore firm and stable, and they go on by the way of
truth, and do not slacken their pace, helping their neighbour,
without regarding his ignorance and ingratitude, and caring
not for the injuries and reproofs of the vicious, but rather
crying before My Face in prayer for them, grieving more
for the injury they do Me, and the damnation of their soul,
than for their own annoyance. They say with glorious Paul,
My standard bearer : The world curses us and we bless, it
persecutes us and we return thanks, we are swept away as the
dirt and refuse of the world and we endure patiently? So,
most delightful daughter, thou seest the sweet signs, and
above all other signs, the virtue of patience, by which the
soul shows herself in truth, to have arisen from imperfection
and attained to perfect love, following the sweet and im
maculate Lamb, My only-begotten Son, Who, being on the
Cross, held by the nails of love, did not draw back on
account of the taunts of the Jews who said : ( Descend from
the Cross and we will believe Thee} and neither did He draw
back for your ingratitude, and not persevere in the obedience
which I had imposed upon Him, but He endured with so
much patience, that no cry of murmuring was heard from
Him.

" In a like way do my most delightful sons, and faithful
servants, follow the doctrine and example of My Truth, and
they do not turn back from following the plough, because
the world would withdraw them by flattery or threats, but
they fix their eyes on My Truth alone. Such as they would
not want to leave the field of battle in order to don the
garment of peace and remain at home, but would rather
want to flee creatures and pleasures than Me, their Creator.
They will stand with delight in the field of battle, drunk

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 161

and inebriated with the Blood of Christ crucified, which is
placed in the tavern of the church of My charity, to give
life to those who would be true knights, and fight against
their own sensuality and fragile flesh, against the world and
the devil, with the knife of hatred of vice and the knife of
the love of virtue, which knife of love is a weapon that
parries all sin, and which the enemy cannot take from them,
unless they voluntarily take off their armour, surrendering
the knife of the said love into the enemy s hand. They who
are inebriated with the Blood would not do thus, but they
would rather manfully persevere until death, when all their
enemies will be discomfited.

" O glorious virtues ! how pleasing they are to Me, and
how, in the world, they shine in the darkened eyes of the
ignorant, who cannot participate in the light of My servants !
In the hatred of those who persecute My servants, shines
the clemency which the persecuted ones have for the
salvation of their tormentors ; in their envy shines the
broadness of charity, and in their cruelty, pity for they
are cruel to themselves ; in injury shines Queen Patience,
who is supreme over all the virtues, because she is the
mirror of charity. She shows up in review the virtues of
the soul, and shows whether they are founded by Me, in
truth or not. She conquers and is never conquered. She
is accompanied by Perseverance and Fortitude, as I have
told thee, and when she comes out of the battle-field and
returns with victory to the house, to Me, Eternal Father,
the Rewarder of every toil, she receives the Crown of
Glory."

CHAPTER LXXVIII.

Of the fourth state, which is, nevertheless, not separated from the
third, and of the works of the soul who has arrived at this state,
and how she is never left by GOD, Who remains with her in
continual sentiment.

41 Now I have told thee how it is to be seen that souls
have arrived at the perfection of love, friendly and filial

162 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

Now I do not want to conceal from thee how great is the
delight with which they taste Me, though they are still in
the mortal body. This is because, having arrived at the
third state, they acquire the fourth, which, however, is not
separated from the third, but is united with it, and the one
cannot be without the other, except in the same way as love
of Me can be without love of the neighbour. A fruit that
arises from this third condition of the soul s perfect union
with Me, wherein she acquires fortitude, is that, not only does
she bear with patience, but she anxiously desires to suffer
pain for the glory and praise of My Name. Such as these
glory in the shame of My only-begotten Son, as said Paul,
My standard-bearer: I glory in tribulations, and in the
shame of Christ crucified and in another place God
forbid that I should glory save in Christ crucified and
again / bear in My body the stigmata of Christ crucified}
Such as these, I say, as if enamoured of My honour, and
famished for the food of souls, run to the table of the Most
Holy Cross, willing to suffer pain and endure much for the
service of the neighbour, and desiring to preserve and
acquire the virtues, bearing in their body the stigmata of
Christ crucified, causing the crucified love which is theirs
to shine, being visible through self-contempt and delighted
endurance of the shames and vexations on every side. To
these, My most dear sons, trouble is a pleasure, and
pleasure and every consolation that the world would offer
them, are a toil, and not only the consolation that the ser
vants of the world, by My dispensation, are constrained to
give them, in reverence and in compassion of their corporal
necessities, out also the mental consolation which they
receive from Me, the Eternal Father. Even this they
despise through humility and self-hatred. They do not
despise consolation itself, which is my gift and grace, but
only the pleasure which the soul s appetite finds therein.
And this they do through the virtue of true humility,
obtained through holy self- hatred, which is the nurse and
nourisher of love, and has been acquired through true
knowledge of themselves and of Me. Wherefore, as thou
seest, the virtues and wounds of Christ crucified shine in

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 163

their bodies and souls. Such as these do not feel any
separation from Me, as happens in the case of others, of
whom I have told thee, namely, that I would leave them,
not by grace, but by feeling, afterwards returning to them
again. I do not act thus to these most perfect ones who
have arrived at the great perfection, and are entirely dead
to their own will, but I remain continually both by grace
and feeling in their souls, so that at any time that they
wish they can unite their minds to Me, through love. They
can in no way be separated from My love, for, by love, they
have arrived at so close a union. Every place is to them
an oratory, every moment a time for prayer their conver
sation has ascended from earth to heaven that is to say,
they have cut off from themselves every form of earthly
affection and sensual self-love, and have risen alone them
selves into the very height of heaven, having climbed the
staircase of the virtues and mounted the three Steps which
I figured to thee, in the Body of My Son. On the first
step the feet of their affection are divested of the love
of vice ; on the second they taste the secret love of the
Heart, where they can see desire of virtue; on the third,
the step of purity and peace of mind, they find in them
selves the virtues, and, rising above imperfect love, they
attain the great perfection. For they have found rest to
their souls in the doctrine of My Truth, having found both
Table and Food and Server, which Food they taste, through
the doctrine of Christ crucified, My only- begotten Son. I
am their Bed and Board, and My sweet and amorous
Word is their Food, for they eat the Bread of souls in the
person of this glorious Word, for I give Him to you, that
is His Flesh and Blood, wholly GOD and wholly man, in
the Sacrament of the Altar, by My Goodness, while you
are still pilgrims and wayfarers, so that you may not slacken
your pace through faintness, or lose the memory of the
benefits of the Blood, shed for you with so much fire of
love, and may always be able to comfort and delight your
selves while on your journey. The Holy Spirit serves
these souls, for He is the affection of My charity which
ministers to them both gifts and graces. This sweet

164 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

Servant both fetches and carries, to Me their painful but
sweetly amorous desires, and to them the fruit of the
Divine Love, and of their labours, so that they feed on the
sweetness of My charity, so that, as thou seest, I am the
Table, and My Son is the Food, and the Holy Spirit pro
ceeding from Me, the Father, and from Him, the Son, is the
Server. Thou seest, then, that they always feel Me in
their minds, by sentiment as well as by grace ; and the
more they have despised trouble, taking pleasure in it and
desiring it, the more completely have they passed beyond it
and acquired delight, because their ardent souls are enflamed
with My love, wherein their will is consumed. The devil
fears the rod of their charity, and the world strikes the
outside of their bodies to hurt them, but to its own injury,
because the arrow, which cannot find a place to enter, returns
against him who sent it. For when the world hurls the darts
of injuries, persecutions and murmurings against My most
perfect servants, there is no joint in their harness for them
to enter by, the garden of their soul being walled up, so
that the dart returns against him who hurled it, poisoning
him with the venom of his own sin. Thou seest, then,
that the soul can in no way be attacked through the body,
but remains both blessed and sorrowful. Sorrowful for
the sake of her neighbour s sin, and blessed through the
union of love with Me which she enjoys in herself. Such
as these follow the Immaculate Lamb, My only-begotten
Son, Who was both blessed and sorrowful on the Cross.
He was sorrowful in that He bore the cross of the Body,
suffering pain and the cross of desire, in order to satisfy
for the guilt of the human race, and He was blessed, be
cause the Divine nature, though united with the human,
could suffer no pain, but always kept His Soul in a state
of blessedness, being revealed without a veil to her, so
that He was both blessed and sorrowful, for, while the
flesh endured, neither the Deity nor the superior part of
the soul, which is above the intellect, could suffer.

" So these, My sons of delight, who have arrived at the
third and fourth states, are sorrowful, for they carry both a
physical and a mental Cross that is to say, they bear

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 165

pain in their bodies according to My permission, and in
their mind, the cross of desire, for they are tortured by
sorrow at the offence done to Me, and the loss of their
neighbour. Yet I say to thee that they are blessed, be
cause the delight of charity which makes them so, cannot be
taken away from them. Their grief, then, cannot be called
afflicting sorrow, but rather fattening, for the soul is fattened
by her love, and virtues are augmented and fortified by
trouble. Their trouble fattens them and does not afflict
them, because no trouble can draw them out of the fire of
My love. These souls, thrown into the furnace of My
charity, no part of their will remaining outside, but the
whole of them being enflamed in Me, are like a brand, wholly
consumed in the furnace, so that no one can take hold of it
to extinguish it, because it has become fire. In the same
way, no one can seize these souls or draw them outside of
Me, because they are made one thing with Me through
grace, and I never withdraw Myself from them by sentiment,
as in the case of those who I am leading on to perfection.
For, with souls who have arrived at perfection, I play no
more the Game of Love, which consists in leaving and
returning again to the soul, though thou must understand
that it is not, properly speaking, I, the immoveable GOD,
Who thus illude them, but rather the sentiment that My
charity gives them of Me."

CHAPTER LXXIX.

How GOD does not withdraw Himself from the aforesaid perfect
ones by sentiment or by grace, but how He withdraws the union
of Himself from them.

" I HAVE said, that, from these pertect ones, I never with
draw by sentiment. But, in another way, I depart from
them, for the soul, being bound in the body, is not sufficient
continually to receive that union which I make with her.
And because she is not sufficient, I withdraw Myself, not
by sentiment or by grace, but by that union which I

166 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

make with her. For souls, arising with anxious desire,
run, with virtue, by the Bridge of the doctrine of Christ
crucified, and arrive at the gate, lifting up their minds in
Me, and in the Blood, and burning with the fire of love
they taste in Me, the Eternal Deity, Who am to them a
Sea Pacific, with Whom the soul has made so great union,
that she has no movement except in Me. And, being yet
mortal, they taste the good of the immortals, and having
yet the weight of the body, they receive the joy of the
spirit. Wherefore oftentimes, through the perfect union
which the soul has made with Me, she is raised from
the earth almost as if the heavy body became light.
But this does not mean that the heaviness of the
body is taken away, but that the union of the soul with
Me is more perfect than the union of the body with the
soul ; wherefore the strength of the spirit, united with Me,
raises the weight of the body from the earth, leaving it as
if immovable and all pulled to pieces in the affection of the
soul. Thou rememberest to have heard it said of some
creatures, that were it not for My Goodness, in seeking
strength for them, they would not be able to live, and I
would tellthee, that, in the fact that the souls of some do not
leave their bodies, is to be seen a greater miracle, than in
the fact that some have arisen from the dead, so great is
the union which they have with Me. I, therefore, sometimes
for a space, withdraw from the union, making the soul return
to the vessel of her body, that is, to the sentiment of the
body, from which she was separated though the affection
of love. From the body she did not depart, because that
cannot be, except in death, the bodily powers alone departed,
becoming united to Me, through affection of love. The
memory is full of nothing but Me, the intellect, elevated,
gazes upon the object of My Truth ; the affection, which
follows the intellect, loves and becomes united with that which
the intellect sees. These powers, being united and gathered
together and immersed and inflamed in Me, the body loses
its feeling, so that the seeing eye sees not, and the hearing
ear hears not, and the tongue does not speak, except as the
abundance of the heart will sometimes permit it for the

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 167

alleviation of the heart and the praise and glory of My
Name.

"The hand does not touch and the feet walk not, because
the members are bound with the sentiment of love, and as,
it were, contrary to all their natural functions, cry to Me the
Eternal Father for the separation of the soul from the body,
as did My glorious Paul, saying, Oh wretched man that lam,
who will separate Me from this body ? for I feel within Me a
perverse law which wars against the Spirit. Paul was not
referring to the warring of senses against the Spirit, from
which he knew he was secured by My words : My grace is
sufficient for thee. Why then, did he utter those words ?
Because he found himself bound in the vessel of the body,
which for a space of time impeded his vision of Me, that
is to say, that, until death, his eyes were bound so as not
to be able to see Me, the Eternal Trinity, Who am in
the sight of the Blessed Immortals, who render praise and
glory to My name. Whereas he found himself in the
midst of mortals who always offend Me, deprived of the
sight of Me, that is of Me in My Essence. Not that he
and My other servants see Me not in the virtue of Charity
in diverse ways, according as pleases My Goodness, but
they see Me not in Essence. But every vision, which the
soul, while it is in the mortal body, receives of Me is a
darkness compared to that sight which the soul has who
is separated from the body. So that it seemed to Paul
that the bodily vision warred against the vision of the
Spirit, and that the feeling of the grossness of the human
body impeded the intellectual eye, not allowing him to see
Me face to face, and it seemed to him that his will was so
bound that he could not love as he wanted to love, for
every love in this life, until it reaches its perfection, is
imperfect. Not that the love of Paul and of My other
servants was imperfect in grace and in charity, because it
was perfect, but it was imperfect in that it had not satis
faction, which gave him pain, for, had his desire been filled
with that which he loved, he would have felt no pain. But the
soul, who is separated from the body, has her desire filled,
and has therefore no pain. She is satisfied, the tedium of

i68 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

satiety, being far from her, and the pain of hunger. Her
vessel is filled, and she is firm and stable in Me, the Truth,
so that she can desire nothing which she has not. Desiring
Me, she sees Me face to face, desiring to see the glory and
praise of My Name in My saints, she sees them in the
angelic as well as in the human nature."

CHAPTER LXXX.

How worldly people render glory and praise to GOD, whether
they will or no.

" AND so perfect is her vision that she sees the glory and
praise of My Name, not so much in the angelic nature as
in the human, for, whether worldly people will or no, they
render glory and praise to My Name, not that they do so in
the way they should, loving Me above everything, but that
My mercy shines in them, in that, in the abundance of My
charity, I give them time, and do not order the earth to
open and swallow them up on account of their sins. I even
wait for them, and command the earth to give them of her
fruits, the sun to give them light and warmth, and the sky
to move above them. And in all things created and made
for them, I use My charity and mercy, withdrawing neither
on account of their sins. I even give equally to the sinner
and the righteous man, and often more to the sinner than
to the righteous man, because the righteous man is able to-
endure privation, and I take from him the goods of the
world that he may the more abundantly enjoy the goods of
heaven. So that in worldly men My mercy and charity
shine, and they render praise and glory to My Name, even
when they persecute My servants ; for they prove in them
the virtues of patience and charity, causing them to suffer
humbly and offer to Me their persecutions and injuries, thus
turning them into My praise and glory.

"So that, whether they will or no, worldly people render
to My Name praise and glory, even when they intend to
do Me infamy and wrong."

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 169

CHAPTER LXXXI.
How even the devils render glory and praise to GOD.

" SINNERS, such as those of whom I have just spoken, are
placed in this life in order to augment virtues in My servants,
as the devils are in Hell as My justitiars and augmentors
of My Glory ; that is, my instruments of justice towards
the damned, and the augmentors of My Glory in My
creatures, who are wayfarers and pilgrims on their
journey to reach Me, their End. They augment in them
the virtues in diverse ways, exercising them with many
temptations and vexations, causing them to injure one
another and take one another s property, and not for the
motive of making them receive injury or be deprived of
their property, but only to deprive them of charity. But
in thinking to deprive My servants, they fortify them, prov
ing in them the virtues of patience, fortitude, and perse
verance. Thus they render praise and glory to My Name,
and My Truth is fulfilled in them, which Truth created them
for the praise and glory of Me, Eternal Father, and that they
might participate in My beauty. But, rebelling against Me
in their pride, they fell and lost their vision of Me, where
fore they rendered not to Me glory through the affection of
love, and I, Eternal Truth, have placed them as instruments
to exercise My servants in virtue in this life and as justitiars
to those who go, for their sins, to the pains of Purgatory.
So thou seest that My Truth is fulfilled in them, that is, that
they render Me glory, not as citizens of life eternal, of which
they are deprived by their sins, but as My justitiars, mani
festing justice upon the damned, and upon those in Purga
tory."

170 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

CHAPTER LXXXII.

How the soul, after she has passed through this life, sees fully the
praise and glory of My Name in everything, and, though, in her
the pain of desire is ended, the desire is not.

41 THUS in all things created, in all rational creatures, and in
the devils is seen the glory and praise of My Name. Who
can see it ? The soul who is denuded of the body and
has reached Me, her End, sees it clearly, and, in seeing,
knows the truth. Seeing Me, the Eternal Father, she loves,
and loving, she is satisfied. Satisfied, she knows the Truth,
and her will is stayed in My Will, bound and made stable,
so that in nothing can it suffer pain, because it has that
which it desired to have, before the soul saw Me, namely,
the glory and praise of My Name. She now, in truth, sees
it completely in My saints, in the blessed spirits, and in all
creatures and things, even in the devils, as I told thee. And
although she also sees the injury done to Me, which before
caused her sorrow, it no longer now can give her pain, but
only compassion, because she loves without pain, and prays
to Me continually with affection of love, that I will have
mercy on the world. Pain in her is ended, but not love, as
the tortured desire, which My Word, the Son, had borne
from the beginning when I sent Him into the world, termi
nated on the Cross in His painful death, but His love no.
For had the affection of My charity, which I shewed you
by means of Him, been terminated and ended then, you
would not be, because by love you are made, and had My
love been drawn back, that is, had I not loved your being,
you could not be, but My love created you, and My love
possesses you, because I am one thing with My Truth, and
He, the Word Incarnate with Me. Thou seest then, that
the saints and every soul in Eternal Life have desire for the
salvation of souls without pain, because pain ended in their
death, but not so the affection of love.

" Thus, as if drunk with the Blood of the Immaculate
Lamb, and clothed in the love of the neighbour, they pass

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 171

through the Narrow Gate, bathed in the Blood of Christ
crucified, and they find themselves in Me, the Sea Pacific,
raised from imperfection, far from satiety, and arrived at per
fection, satisfied by every good."

CHAPTER LXXXIII.

How after Saint Paul was drawn to the glory of the blessed, he
desired to be loosened from the body, as they do, who have
reached the aforesaid third and fourth states.

" PAUL, then, had seen and tasted this good, when I drew
him up into the third heaven, that is into the height of the
Trinity, where he tasted and knew My Truth, receiving fully
the Holy Spirit, and learning the doctrine of My Truth,
the Word Incarnate. The soul of Paul was clothed, through
feeling and union, in Me, Eternal Father, like the blessed
ones in Eternal Life, except that his soul was not separated
from his body, except through this feeling and union. But it
being pleasing to My Goodness to make of him a vessel of
election in the abyss of Me, Eternal Trinity, I dispossessed
him of Myself, because on Me can no pain fall, and I wished
him to suffer for My name ; therefore I placed before him,
as an object for the eyes of his intellect, Christ crucified,
clothing him with the garment of His doctrine, binding and
fettering him with the clemency of the Holy Spirit and
enflaming him with the fire of charity. He became a
vessel, disposed and reformed by My Goodness, and, on
being struck, made no resistance, but said : My Lord, what
dost Thou wish me to do ? Show me that which it is thy
pleasure for me to do, and I will do it} Which I answered
when I placed before him Christ crucified, clothing him
with the doctrine of My chanty. I illuminated him perfectly
with the light of true contrition, by which he extirpated his
defects, and founded him in My charity."

172 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

CHAPTER LXXXIV.

How the soul who finds herself in the unitive state desires
infinitely to leave the barren earthly state and unite herself to
GOD.

"AND when I depart from the soul in the aforesaid way
that the body may return a little to its corporal sentiment,
the soul, on account of the union which she had made with
Me, is impatient in her life, being deprived of union with
Me, and the conversation of the Immortals, who render
glory to Me, and finding herself, amid the conversation of
mortals, and seeing them so miserably offending Me. This
vision of My offence is the torture which such souls
always have, and which, with the desire to see Me, renders
their life insupportable to them. Nevertheless, as their
will is not their own, but becomes one with Mine, they
cannot desire other than what I desire, and though they
desire to come and be with Me, they are contented to
remain, if I desire them to remain, with their pain, for the
greater praise and glory of My Name and the salvation of
souls. So that in nothing are they in discord with My
Will ; but they run their course with ecstatic desire, clothed
in Christ crucified, and keeping by the Bridge of His
doctrine, glorying in His shame and pains. Inasmuch
as they appear to be suffering they are rejoicing, because
the enduring of many tribulations is to them a relief in the
desire which they have for death, for oftentimes the desire
and the will to suffer pain mitigates the pain caused them
by their desire to quit the body. These not only endure
with patience, as I told thee they did, who are in the third
state, but they glory, through My Name, in bearing much
tribulation. In bearing tribulation they find pleasure, and
not having it they suffer pain, fearing that I reward not
their well-doing or that the sacrifice of their desires is not
pleasing to Me ; but when I permit to them many tribula
tions they rejoice, seeing themselves clothed with the suffer
ing and shame of Christ crucified. Wherefore were it

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 173

possible for them to have virtue without toil they would
not want it. They would rather delight in the Cross, with
Christ, acquiring it with pain, than in any other way obtain
Eternal Life. Why ? Because they are inflamed and
steeped in the Blood, where they find the blaze of My
charity, which charity is a fire proceeding from Me,
ravishing their heart and mind and making their sacrifices
acceptable. Wherefore, the eye of the intellect is lifted up
and gazes into My Deity, when the affection behind the
intellect is nourished and united with Me. This is a sight
which I grant to the soul, infused with grace, who, in truth,
loves and serves Me."

CHAPTER LXXXV.

How they, who are arrived at the aforesaid unitive state, have the
eye of their intellect illuminated by supernatural light infused
by grace. And how it is better to go for counsel for the salvation
of the soul, to a humble and holy conscience than to a proud
lettered man.

" WITH this light that is given to the eye of the intellect,
Thomas Aquinas saw Me, wherefore he acquired the light
of much science ; also Augustine, Jerome, and the doctors,
and my saints. They were illuminated by My Truth to
know and understand My Truth in darkness. By
My Truth I mean the Holy Scripture, which seemed dark
because it was not understood ; not through any defect of
the Scriptures, but of them who heard them, and did not
understand them. Wherefore I sent this light to illuminate
the blind and coarse understanding, uplifting the eye of the
intellect to know the Truth. And I, Fire, Acceptor of
sacrifices, ravishing away from them their darkness, give
the light ; not a natural light, but a supernatural, so that,
though in darkness, they know the Truth. Wherefore
that, which at first appeared to be dark, now appears with
the most perfect light, to the gross or subtle mind ; and
every one receives according as he is capable or disposed

174 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

to know Me, for I do not despise dispositions. So thou
seest that the eye of the intellect has received supernatural
light, infused by grace, by which the doctors and saints
knew light in darkness, and of darkness made light. The
intellect was, before the Scriptures were formed, wherefore,
from the intellect came science, because in seeing they dis
cerned. It was thus that the holy prophets and fathers
understood, who prophesied of the coming and death of My
Son, and the Apostles, after the coming of the Holy Spirit,
which gave them that supernatural light. The evangelists,
doctors, confessors, virgins and martyrs were all likewise
illuminated by the aforesaid perfect light. And every one
has had the illumination of this light according as he
needed it for his salvation or that of others, or for the
exposition of the Scriptures. The doctors of the holy
science had it, expounding the doctrine of My Truth,
the preaching of the Apostles, and the Gospels of
the Evangelists. The martyrs had it, declaring in their
blood the Most Holy Faith, the fruit and the treasure of
the Blood of the Lamb. The virgins had it in the affec
tion of charity and purity. To the obedient ones is
declared, by it, the obedience of the Word, showing them
the perfection of obedience, which shines in My Truth,
Who for the obedience that I imposed upon Him, ran to
the opprobrious death of the Cross. This light is to be
seen in the Old and New Testament ; in the Old, by it,
were seen by the eye of the intellect, and known the
prophecies of the holy prophets. In the New Testament
of the evangelical life, how is the Gospel declared to the
faithful ? By this same light. And because the New
Testament proceeded from the same light, the new law did
not break the old law ; rather are the two laws bound
together, the imperfection of the old law, founded in fear
alone, being taken from it, by the coming of the Word of My
only-begotten Son, with the law of Love, completing the
old law by giving it love, and replacing the fear of penalty
by holy fear. And, therefore, said My Truth to the
disciples, to show that He was not a breaker of laws :
* / came not to dissolve the law, but to fulfil it? It is almost

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 175,

as if My Truth would say to them The Law is now
imperfect, but with My Blood I will make it perfect, and
I will fill it up with what it lacks, taking away the fear of
penalty, and founding it in love and holy fear. How was
this declared to be the Truth ? By this same supernatural
light, which was and is given by grace to all, who will
receive it ? Every light that comes from Holy Scripture
comes and came from this supernatural light. Ignorant
and proud men of science were blind notwithstanding this
light, because their pride and the cloud of self-love had
covered up and put out the light. Wherefore they under
stood the Holy Scripture rather literally than with under
standing, and taste only the letter of it, still desiring many
other books ; and they get not to the marrow of it, because
they have deprived themselves of the light, with which is
found and expounded the Scripture ; and they are annoyed
and murmur, because they find much in it that appears to
them gross and idiotic. And, nevertheless, they appear to
be much illuminated in their knowledge of Scripture,
as if they had studied it for long; and this is not remark
able, because they have of course the natural light from
whence proceeds science. But because they have lost the
supernatural light, infused by grace, they neither see nor
know My Goodness, nor the grace of My servants. Where
fore, I say to thee, that it is much better to go for counsel
for the salvation of the soul, to a holy and upright con
science, than to a proud lettered man, learned in much
science, because such a one can only offer what he has
himself, and, because of his darkness, it may appear to thee,
that, from what he says, the Scriptures offer darkness. The
contrary wilt thou find with My servants, because they
offer the light that is in them, with hunger and desire
for the soul s salvation. This I have told thee, my sweetest
daughter, that thou mightest know the perfection of this
unitive state, when the eye of the intellect is ravished by
the fire of My charity, in which charity it receives the
supernatural light. With this light the souls in the unitive
state love Me, because love follows the intellect, and the
more it knows the more can it love. Thus the one feeds

i;6 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

the other, and, with this light, they both arrive at the
Eternal Vision of Me, where they see and taste Me, in
Truth, the soul being separated from the body, as I told
thee when I spoke to thee of the blissfulness that the
soul received in Me. This state is most excellent, when
the soul, being yet in the mortal body, tastes bliss with the
immortals, and ofttimes she arrives at so great a union
that she scarcely knows whether she be in the body or out
of it ; and tastes the earnest-money of Eternal Life, both
because she is united with Me, and because her will is dead
in Christ, by which death her union was made with Me, and
in no other way could she perfectly have done so. There
fore do they taste life eternal, deprived of the hell of their
own will, which gives to man the earnest-money of damna
tion, if he yield to it."

CHAPTER LXXXVI.

A useful repetition of many things already said and how GOD leads
this devout soul to pray to Him for every creature, and for the
Holy Church.

"Now thou hast seen, with the eye of thy intellect, and heard,
with the ear of thy feeling, from Me, Eternal Truth, what
method thou must hold to make use of this doctrine for thy
self, and thy neighbour, and to know My Truth. As I told
thee in the beginning, a knowledge of Truth is arrived at
through a knowledge of self. Not a pure knowledge of
self, but a knowledge of self seasoned and united with a
knowledge of Me. Wherefore thou foundest humility and
hatred and displeasure of thyself and the fire of My
charity, through the knowledge that thou foundest of thyself
from whence thou earnest to love and take delight in thy
neighbour, bringing him to a holy and honest life, by
means of the doctrine. I have also shown thee the Bridge,
and the three general steps, placed there for the three
powers of the soul, and I have told thee how no one can
attain to the life of grace unless he has mounted all three

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 177

steps, that is, gathered together all the three powers of the
soul in My Name. I have also made known to thee, in
particular, the three states of the soul, figured in the Body
of My only-begotten Son, of Whom I told thee, that He
had made of His Body a staircase, showing it to thee in
His nailed Feet, and in the opening of His Side, and in His
Mouth, where the soul attains to peace and quiet, in the
way that I told thee. And I have shown thee the imper
fection of servile fear, and the imperfection of the love, that
is only for the sweetness found in Me, and I have shown
thee, the perfection of the third state, namely of those who
have arrived at the peace of the Mouth, having run, with
anxious desire, by the Bridge of Christ crucified, ascending
the three general steps, that is, gathering together in My
Name the three powers of the soul and all their functions,
as I explained to thee more clearly above, and thus have
ascended the three principal steps, that is, passed from the
imperfect state to the perfect. And so hast thou seen them
run in truth, and taste with satisfaction the perfection of the
soul, with the odour of the virtues. Thou hast also seen the
deceptions into which theyfall before they arrive at perfection,
if they do not exercise themselves in the knowledge of Me
and of themselves. I have also declared to thee the misery
of those who are drowned in the river, because they keep not
by the Bridge of the doctrine of Christ crucified, the which
I placed there that they might not be drowned. But they,
as if they were mad, would drown in the misery and filth of
the world. All these things have I declared to thee to increase
in thee the fire of holy desire, and compassion and sorrow for
the damnation of souls, and that thy sorrow and love might
constrain thee to urge Me, with tears and sweat and humble
and continual prayer, offered to Me with the fire of most
ardent desire, to have mercy on the world. And that not
only thou, but many others of my creatures and servants
who may hear these things, might be constrained to urge
Me to have mercy on the world and particularly on the
mystic body of the Holy Church. I have already told thee,
if thou remember well, that I would fulfil all thy desires,
giving thee refreshment in thy toil, and satisfying the pain

M

178 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

of thy desires, reforming the Church with holy and good
pastors. Not reforming her by war, or the knife or cruelty,
as I told thee, but by peace and quiet and by the tears and
sweat of My servants, whom I have placed as labourers for
souls in the mystic body of the Church, labouring for them
in virtue, in example and in doctrine, offering to Me, for
the Church and every creature, continual prayer, bringing
forth the virtues on their neighbour in the way I have told
thee, because every virtue and every fault is increased by
its relation to the neighbour. Wherefore I wish you all to
be of service to your neighbour, and thus to bear fruit. Cease
not to cast up before Me the incense of fragrant prayers
for the salvation of souls, because with those prayers,
tears and sweatings will I wash the face of My Spouse,
the Holy Church. I have already shown her to thee
under the form of a damsel, her face all befouled, as if
with leprosy. And this is on account of the sins of
My ministers and of the whole Christian people who feed
at the breast of this My Spouse, and of whose sins I will
speak to thee in another place."

CHAPTER LXXXVII.

How this devout soul seeks knowledge from God concerning the
state and fruit of tears.

THEN this soul, yearning with very great desire, and rising
as one intoxicated both by the union which she had had with
God, and by what she had heard and tasted of the Supreme
and Sweet Truth, yearned with grief over the ignorance
of creatures, in that they did not know their Benefactor, or
the affection of the love of God. And nevertheless she
had joy from the hope of the promise that the Truth of God
had made to her, teaching her the way she was to direct
her will (and the other servants of God as well as herself)
in order that He should do mercy to the world. And,
lifting up the eye of her intellect upon the sweet Truth, to

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 179

Whom she remained united, wishing to know somewhat of
the aforesaid states of the soul of which God had spoken to
her, and seeing that the soul passes through these states
with tears, she wished to learn from the Truth concerning
the different kinds of tears, and how they came to be, and
whence they proceeded, and the fruit that resulted from
weeping. Wishing then to know this from the Sweet,
Supreme and First Truth, as to the manner of being and
reason of the aforesaid tears, and inasmuch as the truth
cannot be learnt from any other than from the Truth Him
self, and nothing can be learnt in the Truth but what is
seen by the eye of the intellect, she made her request of
the Truth. For it is necessary for him who is lifted with
desire to learn the Truth with the light of faith.

Wherefore, knowing that she had not forgotten the teach
ing which the Truth, that is, God, had given her, that in
no other way could she learn about the different states and
fruits of tears, she rose out of herself, exceeding every limit
of her nature with the greatness of her desire. And, with
the light of a lively faith, she opened the eye of her intellect
upon the Eternal Truth, in Whom she saw and knew the
Truth, in the matter of her request, for God Himself mani
fested it to her, and condescending in His benignity^ to her
burning desire, fulfilled her petition.

CHAPTER LXXXVIII.

How there are five kinds of tears.

THEN said the Supreme and Sweet Truth of God, " Oh, be
loved and dearest daughter, thou beggest knowledge of the
reasons and fruits of tears, and I have not despised thy
desire. Open well the eye of thy intellect and I will show
thee, among the aforesaid states of the soul, of which I
have told thee, concerning the imperfect tears caused by
fear ; but first rather of the tears of wicked men of the
world. These are the tears of damnation. The former

i8o THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

are those of fear, and belong to men who abandon sin from
fear of punishment, and weep for fear. The third are the
tears of those who, having abandoned sin, are beginning to
serve and taste Me, and weep for very sweetness ; but
since their love is imperfect, so also is their weeping, as I
have told thee. The fourth are the tears of those who
have arrived at the perfect love of their neighbour, loving
Me without any regard whatsoever for themselves. These
weep and their weeping is perfect. The fifth are joined to
the fourth and are tears of sweetness let fall with great
peace, as I will explain to thee. I will tell thee also of the
tears of fire, without bodily tears of the eyes, which satisfy
those who often would desire to weep and cannot. And I
wish thee to know that all these various graces may exist
in one soul, who, rising from fear and imperfect love, reaches
perfect love in the unitive state. Now I will begin to tell
thee of these tears in the following way."

CHAPTER LXXXIX.

Of the difference of these tears, arising from the explanation of
the aforesaid states of the soul.

" I WISH thee to know that every tear proceeds from the
heart, for there is no member of the body that will satisfy
the heart so much as the eye. If the heart is in pain the
eye manifests it. And if the pain be sensual the eye drops
hearty tears which engender death, because proceeding
from the heart, they are caused by a disordinate love
distinct from the love of Me ; for such love, being disordi
nate and an offence to Me, receives the meed of mortal pain
and tears. It is true that their guilt and grief are more or
less heavy, according to the measure of their disordinate
love. And these form that first class, who have the tears
of death, of whom I have spoken to thee, and will speak
again. Now, begin to consider the tears which give the
commencement of life, the tears, that is, of those who,

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 181

knowing their guilt, set to weeping for fear of the penalty
they have incurred.

"These are both hearty and sensual tears, because the
soul, not having yet arrived at perfect hatred of its guilt on
account of the offence thereby done to Me, abandons it with
a hearty grief for the penalty which follows the sin
committed, while the eye weeps in order to satisfy the grief
of the heart.

"But the soul, exercising herself in virtue, begins to lose
her fear, knowing that fear alone is not sufficient to give
her eternal life, as I have already told thee when speaking
of the second stage of the soul. And so she proceeds, with
love, to know herself and My goodness in her, and begins to
take hope in My mercy in which her heart feels joy.
Sorrow for her grief, mingled with the joy of her hope in
My mercy, causes her eye to weep, which tears issue from
the very fountain of her heart.

"But, inasmuch as she has not yet arrived at great
perfection, she often drops sensual tears, and if thou askest
Me why, I reply : Because the root of self-love is not
sensual love, for that has already been removed, as has f
been said, but it is a spiritual love with which the soul
desires spiritual consolations or loves some creature spirit
ually. (I have spoken to thee at length regarding the imper
fections of such souls.) Wherefore, when such a soul is
deprived of the thing she loves, that is, internal or external
consolation, the internal being the consolation received from
Me, the external being that which she had from the creature,
and when temptations and the persecutions of men come
on her, her heart is full of grief. And, as soon as the eye
feels the grief and suffering of the heart, she begins to weep
with a tender and compassionate sorrow, pitying herself
with the spiritual compassion of self-love ; for her self-will
is not yet crushed and destroyed in everything, and in this
way she lets fall sensual tears tears, that is, of spiritual
passion. But, growing, and exercising herself in the light of
self-knowledge, she conceives displeasure at herself and
finally perfect self-hatred. From this she draws true
knowledge of My goodness with a fire of love, and she

182 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

begins to unite herself to Me, and to conform her will to Mine
and so to feel joy and compassion. Joy in herself through
the affection of love, and compassion for her neighbour, as
I told thee in speaking of the third stage. Immediately
her eye, wishing to satisfy the heart, cries with hearty love
for Me and for her neighbour, grieving solely for My
offence and her neighbour s loss, and not for any penalty or
loss due to herself; for she does not think of herself, but
only of rendering glory and praise to My Name, and, in an
ecstasy of desire, she joyfully takes the food prepared for
her on the table of the Holy Cross, thus conforming herself
to the humble, patient, and immaculate Lamb, My only-
begotten Son, of whom I made a Bridge, as I have said.
Having thus sweetly travelled by that Bridge, following the
doctrine of My sweet Truth, enduring with true and sweet
patience every pain and trouble which I have permitted to
be inflicted upon her for her salvation, having manfully
received them all, not choosing them according to her own
tastes, but accepting them according to Mine, and not only,
as I said, enduring them with patience, but sustaining them
with joy, she counts it glory to be persecuted for My Name s
sake in whatever she may have to suffer. Then the soul
arrives at such delight and tranquillity of mind that no
tongue can tell it. Having crossed the river by means of the
Eternal Word, that is, by the doctrine of My only-begotten
Son, and, having fixed the eye of her intellect on Me, the
Sweet Supreme Truth, having seen the Truth, knows it ; and
knowing it, loves it. Drawing her affection after her
intellect, she tastes My Eternal Deity, and she knows and
sees the Divine nature united to your humanity.

" Then she reposes in Me, the Sea Pacific, and her heart
is united to Me in love, as I told thee when speaking of the
fourth and unitive state. When she thus feels Me, the
Eternal Deity, her eyes let fall tears of sweetness, tears
indeed of milk, nourishing the soul in true patience ; an
odoriferous ointment are these tears, shedding odours of
great sweetness.

" Oh, best beloved daughter, how glorious is that soul who
has indeed been able to pass from the stormy ocean to Me,

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 183

the Sea Pacific, and in that Sea, Which is Myself, the
Supreme and Eternal Deity, to fill the pitcher of her heart.
And her eye, the conduit of her heart, endeavours to satisfy
her heart-pangs, and so sheds tears. This is the last stage
in which the soul is blessed and sorrowful.

" Blessed she is through the union which she feels herself
to have with Me, tasting the divine love ; sorrowful through
the offences which she sees done to My goodness and great
ness, for she has seen and tasted the bitterness of this in
her self-knowledge, by which self-knowledge, together with
her knowledge of Me, she arrived at the final stage. Yet
this sorrow is no impediment to the unitive state, which
produces tears of great sweetness through self-knowledge,
gained in love of the neighbour, in which exercise the soul
discovers the plaint of My divine mercy, and grief at the
offences caused to her neighbour, weeping with those who
weep, and rejoicing with those who rejoice that is, who
live in My love. Over these the soul rejoices, seeing glory
and praise rendered Me by My servants, so that the third
kind of grief does not prevent the fourth, that is, the final
grief belonging to the unitive state; they rather give savour
to each other, for, had not this last grief (in which the soul
finds such union with Me), developed from the grief be
longing to the third state of neighbourly love, it would not
be perfect. Therefore it is necessary that the one should
flavour the other, else the soul would come to a state of
presumption, induced by the subtle breeze of love of her
own reputation, and would fall at once, vomited from
the heights to the depths. Therefore it is necessary to
bear with others and practise continually love to one s
neighbour, together with true knowledge of oneself.

"In this way will she feel the fire of My love in herself,
because love of her neighbour is developed out of love of
Me that is, out of that learning which the soul obtained
by knowing herself and My goodness in her. When, there
fore, she sees herself to be ineffably loved by Me, she loves
every rational creature with the self-same love with which
she sees herself to be loved. And, for this reason, the soul
that knows Me immediately expands to the love of her

184 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

neighbour, because she sees that I love that neighbour
ineffably, and so, herself, loves the object which she sees Me
to have loved still more. She further knows that she can
be of no use to Me and can in no way repay Me that pure
love with which she feels herself to be loved by Me, and
therefore endeavours to repay it through the medium which
I have given her, namely, her neighbour, who is the
medium through which you can all serve Me. For, as 1
have said to thee, you can perform all virtues by means of
your neighbour, I having given you all creatures, in general
and in particular, according to the diverse graces each has
received from Me, to be ministered unto by you ; you should
therefore love them with the same pure love with which
I have loved you. That pure love cannot be returned
directly to Me, because I have loved you without being
Myself loved, and without any consideration of Myself
whatsoever, for I loved you without being loved by you
before you existed ; it was, indeed, love that moved Me to
create you to My own image and similitude. This love you
cannot repay to Me, but you can pay it to My rational
creature, loving your neighbour without being loved by
him and without consideration of your own advantage,
whether spiritual or temporal, but loving him solely for the
praise and glory of My Name, because he has been loved
by Me.

"Thus will you fulfil the commandment of the law,
to love Me above everything, and your neighbour as your
selves.

"True indeed is it that this height cannot be reached with
out passing through the second stage, namely the second
stage of union which becomes the third (and final) stage.
Nor can it be preserved when it has been reached if the
soul abandon the affection from which it has been developed,
the affection to which the second class of tears belongs. It
is therefore impossible to fulfil the law given by Me, the
Eternal God, without fulfilling that of your neighbour, for
these two laws are the feet of your affection by which the
precepts and counsels are observed, which were given you,
as I have told thee, by My Truth, Christ crucified. These

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 185

two states united nourish your soul in virtue, making her
to grow in the perfection of virtue and in the unitive state.
Not that the other state is changed because this further
state has been reached, for this further state does but increase
the riches of grace in new and various gifts and admirable
elevations of the mind, in the knowledge of the truth, as I
said to thee, which, though it is mortal, appears immortal
because the soul s perception of her own sensuality is
mortified and her will is dead through the union which she
has attained with Me.

" Oh, how sweet is the taste of this union to the soul, for, in
tasting it, she sees My secrets ! Wherefore she often receives
the spirit of prophecy, knowing the things of the future. This
is the effect of My Goodness, but the humble soul should
despise such things, not indeed in so far as they are given her
by My love, but in so far as she desires them by reason of
her appetite for consolation, considering herself unworthy of
peace and quiet of mind, in order to nourish virtue within
her soul. In such a case let her not remain in the second
stage, but return to the valley of self-knowledge. I give
her this light, My grace permitting, so that she may ever
grow in virtue. For the soul is never so perfect in this
life that she cannot attain to a higher perfection of love.
My only-begotten Son, your Captain, was the only One Who
could increase in no perfection, because He was one thing
with Me, and I with Him, wherefore His soul was blessed
through union with the Divine nature. But do ye, His
pilgrim-members, be ever ready to grow in greater perfection,
not indeed to another stage, for as I have said, ye have now
reached the last, but to that further grade of perfection in
the last stage, which may please you by means of My
Grace."

i86 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

CHAPTER XC.

A repetition of the preceding chapter : and how the Devil flees those
who have arrived at the fifth kind of tears, and how the assaults
of the Devil are the true means of reaching this stage.

"THOU hast now seen the various states of tears and the
difference between them, according as it has pleased My
Truth to satisfy thy desire. With regard to the first tears
of those who are in the state of death, in the guilt, namely,
of mortal sin, thou hast seen that their sorrow, proceeding
in general from their heart, on account of the conception of
the principle of the affection which causes tears, is corrupt
and miserable sorrow, and indeed their every work is
corrupt. The second stage is that of those who are begin
ning to learn their own evil through the penalty which
follows their guilt. This is a general beginning, generously
given by Me to the fragile, who ignorantly drown in the
river, loathing the doctrine of My Truth. But there are
many who know their evil without servile fear (fear, that is,
of the penalty due to their guilt), who abandon sin with a
great self-hatred, which makes them deem themselves worthy
of punishment, and who, in their simple goodness, devote
themselves to serving Me, their Creator, grieving over the
offence which they have done Me. It is true that he who
abandons sin with very great self-hatred is more apt for
perfection than the others (those actuated by servile fear),
yet both classes may arrive thereat by exercise, though
the former will arrive first.

" One of the latter class should take care not to remain in
servile fear, and one of the former should beware of tepidity,
that he does not grow cold within, through not exercising
his simple goodness. This is a common vocation.

"The third and fourth stages are of those who, having
arisen out of fear, have arrived at love and hope, tasting
My Divine mercy, receiving many gifts and consolations
from Me, on account of which the eye weeps in order to-
satisfy the feeling of the heart. But because this sorrow is.

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 187

imperfect and mingled with the sorrow of spiritual self-love,
as I have said, the soul must, by exercise in virtue, reach the
fourth stage, where, having grown by her desires, she unites
and conforms herself to My will to such a point, that she
can neither wish nor desire other than what I wish, in the
matter of love to her neighbour, from which she extracts
the grief of love in herself for the offences and losses
inflicted on her neighbour. This stage is united with the
fifth and ultimate perfection in which the soul unites herself
to the Truth, and the fire of holy desire is increased, from
which desire the Devil flees, for he can persecute the soul
no more, neither by injuring her, for she has grown patient
in the love of her neighbour, nor by spiritual or temporal
consolation, because through self-hatred and true humility
she despises both. True indeed it is that the Devil, for his
part, never sleeps, thus reading a lesson to you negligent
ones, who sleep through the time of merit. But all his
watching cannot hurt such as these, because he cannot
endure the heat of their love, nor the odour of the union
which they have made with Me, the Sea Pacific ; while a
soul thus united to Me cannot be deceived. So he avoids
such a soul, as a fly the boiling kettle, from fear of the fire.
The following however happens to the soul before she has
reached perfection. The Devil, seeing that she seems tepid,
enters into her with many and diverse temptations. But,
the soul, being in the Sea of Knowledge, heat, and hatred of
guilt, resists, binding the will, for fear it should consent, with
the bands of hatred of sin and love of virtue. Let every
soul that experiences many temptations rejoice, for through
them lies the road to this glorious and sweet state. For I have
already told thee, that by knowledge and hatred of yourselves
and knowledge of Me, ye could arrive at perfection. At no
time does the soul know so well whether I am in her or no,
as in the time of battle. Thou askest, in what way ? I
will tell thee. If she know well, seeing herself in battle,
that she cannot liberate herself, or resist the perverse will,
for she has nothing of her own with which to do so. (She
can indeed resist the perverse will, in the sense of not
consenting to it, but in no other sense.) And then she

188 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

learns that she herself is nothing, for were she anything in
her own power, she could cause this battle, which is against
her will, to cease. Thus she humbles herself with true
self-knowledge, and, with the light of the most Holy Faith,
runs to Me, the Eternal God, through Whose Goodness she
is able to preserve a good and holy will that does not
consent in the time of battle, or yield to the miseries with
which it is assailed. You are then quite right to comfort
yourselves with the doctrine of the sweet and amorous
Word, My only-begotten Son, in the time of your troubles
and adversities and temptations from men or devils, for
these increase your virtue and cause you to arrive at great
perfection."

CHAPTER XCI.

How those who desire the tears of the eyes and cannot have them,
have tears of fire ; and why God withdraws from them physical
tears.

" I HAVE spoken to thee of perfect and imperfect tears, and
how all of them issue from the heart. From this vessel
comes every kind of tear, whatever be the cause of it, they
may therefore all be called hearty tears. The sole differ
ence lies between ordinate and disordinate love, between
perfect and imperfect love, as I have said to thee above.
I have yet to tell thee, in order to satisfy the request thou
didst make to Me, of those who long for the perfection of
tears, but apparently cannot have it. Have they any
other way of weeping besides the tears of the eyes ? Yes,
they have the weeping of fire, namely, of true and holy
desire, by which they are consumed through the affection
of love and long to melt their life away in weeping, out of
self-hatred, and for the salvation of souls, and yet it
seems that they cannot. These, I say, have the tears of
fire, in which the Holy Spirit weeps before Me for them
and their neighbour. Thus, I say, does My Divine love
light up with its flame the soul who offers anxious desires

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 189

before Me, without bodily tears. These, I say, are the
tears of fire, and in this way does the Holy Spirit lament.
Not being able to do so with tears, He offers the will and
desires of weeping for love of Me. If thou openest the
eye of thy intellect, thou wilt see that the Holy Spirit
laments by means of every servant of Mine who sheds holy
desires and humble, continual prayers before Me. This, it
would seem, is what the glorious Apostle Paul meant when
he said that the Holy Spirit grieved before Me, the Father,
with unutterable groanings for you.

" Wherefore see that the tears of fire have no less fruit
than those of water, often indeed more, according to the
measure of the love from which they proceed. A soul,
then, who desires tears and cannot have them, should not
be put to confusion of mind, or think that she is deprived
of anything by Me. She should desire tears with a will
humbled, attuned to Mine, desiring them or not, according
as pleases My Divine Goodness. Sometimes I do not
permit the soul to shed tears physically, in order that she
may remain before Me humbled in continual prayer, inas
much as to grant her request would not be of the use to
her that she thinks. For she would remain content with
having received what she had asked for, and so her affec
tion would grow weak, together with the desire with which
she had been accustomed to ask for it. So, for the sake
of the growth, and not the turning back of souls, do I
reserve the right of not granting actual tears, but I some
times grant them mentally and of the heart only, full of the
fire of My Divine Love. In every state, therefore, and in
every time will My servants be pleasing to Me, if they
never let the eye of their intellect lose sight of the object
of My Eternal Truth in the light of faith, with the effect
of love. I am the Physician and you the patients, and I
give each of you what is necessary for his salvation, and
for the growth of perfection in his soul. This is the
truth and the explanation of the states of tears, which I,
the Eternal Truth, have given thee, My most sweet
daughter. Drown thyself then in the Blood of Christ
crucified, the humble and immaculate Lamb, marked with

190 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

the cross, growing continually in virtue, so that thou
mayest be nourished internally with the fire of My Divine
Love."

CHAPTER XCII.

How the four stages of the soul, to which belong the five aforesaid
states of tears, produce tears of infinite value : and how God
wishes to be served as the Infinite, and not as anything finite.

" THESE five states are like five principal canals which
are filled with abundant tears of infinite value, all of
which give life if they are disciplined in virtue, as I have
said to thee. Thou askest how their value can be
infinite. I do not say that in this life your tears can
become infinite, but I call them infinite, on account of the
infinite desire of your soul from which they proceed. I
have already told thee how tears come from the heart, and
how the heart distributes them to the eye, having gathered
them in its own fiery desire. As, when green wood is
on the fire, the moisture it contains groans on account
of the heat, because the wood is green, so does the heart,
made green again by the renovation of grace drawn into
itself among its self-love which dries up the soul, so that fiery
desire and tears are united. And inasmuch as desire is
never ended, it is never satisfied in this life, but the more
the soul loves the less she seems to herself to love. Thus
is holy desire, which is founded in love, exercised, and
with this desire the eye weeps. But when the soul is
separated from the body and has reached Me, her End,
she does not on that account abandon desire, so as to no
longer yearn for Me or love her neighbour, for love has
entered into her like a woman bearing the fruits of all
other virtues. It is true that suffering is over and ended,
as I have said to thee, for the soul that desires Me
possesses Me in very truth, without any fear of ever losing
that which she has so long desired ; but, in this way,
hunger is kept up, because those who are hungry are

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 191

satisfied, and as soon as they are satisfied hunger, again ;
in this way their satiety is without disgust, and their
hunger without suffering, for, in Me, no perfection is wanting.
" Thus is your desire infinite, otherwise it would be
worth nothing, nor would any virtue of yours have any life
if you served Me with anything finite. For I, Who am
the Infinite God, wish to be served by you with infinite
service, and the only infinite thing you possess is the
affection and desire of your souls. In this sense I said
that there were tears of infinite value, and this is true
as regards their mode, of which I have spoken, namely, of
the infinite desire which is united to the tears. When
the soul leaves the body the tears remain behind, but
the affection of love has drawn to itself the fruit of the
tears, and consumed it, as happens in the case of the water
in your furnace. The water has not really been taken
out of the furnace, but the heat of the fire has consumed it
and drawn it into itself. Thus the soul, having arrived at
tasting the fire of My divine charity, and having passed
from this life in a state of love towards Me and her
neighbour, having further possessed that unitive love
which caused her tears to fall, does not cease to offer Me
her blessed desires, tearful indeed, though without pain or
physical weeping, for physical tears have evaporated in
the furnace, becoming tears of fire of the Holy Spirit.
Thou seest then how tears are infinite, how, as regards
the tears shed in this life only, no tongue can tell what
different sorrows may cause them. I have now told thee
the difference between four of these states of tears."

CHAPTER XCIII.

Of the fruit of worldly men s tears.

4 IT remains for Me to tell thee of the fruit produced by
tears shed with desire, and received into the soul. But
;first will I speak to thee of that first class of men whom I

192 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

mentioned at the beginning of this My discourse ; those,
that is, who live miserably in the world, making a god of
created things and of their own sensuality, from which
comes damage to their body and soul. I said to thee that
every tear proceeded from the heart, and this is the truth,
for the heart grieves in proportion to the love it feels. So
worldly men weep when their heart feels pain, that is, when
they are deprived of something which they loved.

"But many and diverse are their complainings. Dost
thou know how many ? There are as many as there exist
different loves. And inasmuch as the root of self-love is
corrupt, everything that grows from it is corrupt also.
Self-love is a tree on which grow nothing but fruits of
death, putrid flowers, stained leaves, branches bowed down,
and struck by various winds. This is the tree of the soul.
For ye are all trees of love, and without love ye cannot live,
for ye have been made by Me for love. The soul who
lives virtuously, places the root of her tree in the valley of
true humility ; but those who live thus miserably are
planted on the mountain of pride, whence it follows that
since the root of the tree is badly planted, the tree can bear
no fruits of life but only of death. Their fruits are their
actions, which are all poisoned by many and diverse kinds
of sin, and if they should produce some good fruit among
their actions, even it will be spoilt by the foulness of its
root, for no good actions done by a soul in mortal sin are
of value for eternal life, for they are not done in grace. Let
not, however, such a soul abandon on this account its good
works, for every good deed is rewarded, and every evil-
deed punished. A good action performed out of a state of
grace is not sufficient to merit eternal life, as has been
said, but My Justice, My Divine Goodness, grants an in
complete reward, imperfect as the action which obtains it.
Often such a man is rewarded in temporal matters ; some
times I give him more time in which to repent, as I have
already said to thee in another place. This also will I
sometimes do, I grant him the life of grace by means of
My servants who are pleasing and acceptable to Me. I
acted in this way with My glorious apostle Paul, who-

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 193

abandoned his infidelity, and the persecutions he directed
against the Christians, at the prayer of St. Stephen. See
truly, therefore, that, in whatever state a man may be, he
should never stop doing good.

" I said to thee that the flowers of this tree were putrid, -f*
and so in truth they are. Its flowers are the stinking
thoughts of the heart, displeasing to Me, and full of hatred
and unkindness towards their neighbour. So if a man be
a thief, he robs Me of honour, and takes it himself. This
flower stinks less than that of false judgment, which is of
two kinds. The first with regard to Me, by which men
judge My secret judgments, gauging falsely all My mys
teries, that is, judging that which I did in love, to have
been done in hatred ; that which I did in truth to have
been done in falsehood ; that which I give them for life, to
have been given them for death. They condemn and judge
everything according to their weak intellect ; for they have
blinded the eye of their intellect with sensual self-love, and
hidden the pupil of the most holy Faith, which they will
not allow to see or know the Truth. The second kind of
false judgment is directed against a man s neighbour, from
which often come many evils, because the wretched man
wishes to set himself up as the judge of the affections and
heart of other rational creatures, when he does not yet
know himself. And, for an action which he may see, or
for a word he may hear, he will judge the affection of the
heart. My servants always judge well, because they are
founded on Me, the Supreme Good ; but such as these
always judge badly, for they are founded on evil. Such
critics as these cause hatreds, murders, unhappinesses of all
kinds to their neighbours, and remove themselves far away
from the love of My servants virtue.

" Truly these fruits follow the leaves, which are the
words which issue from their mouth in insult to Me and the
Blood of My only-begotten Son, and in hatred to their
neighbours. And they think of nothing else but cursing
and condemning My works, and blaspheming and saying
evil of every rational creature, according as their judgment
may suggest to them. The unfortunate creatures do not

N

194 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

remember that the tongue is made only to give honour to
Me, and to confess sins, and to be used in love of virtue,
and for the salvation of the neighbour. These are the
stained leaves of that most miserable fault, because the
heart from which they proceeded was not clean, but all
spotted with duplicity and misery. How much danger,
apart from the spiritual privation of grace to the soul, of
temporal loss may not occur ! For ye have all heard and
seen how, through words alone, have come revolutions of
states, and destructions of cities, and many homicides and
other evils, a word having entered the heart of the listener,
and having passed through a space not large enough for a
knife.

" I say that this tree has seven branches drooping to the
earth, on which grow the flowers and leaves in the way I
have told you. These branches are the seven mortal sins
which are full of many and diverse wickednesses, contained
in the roots and trunk of self-love and of pride, which first
made both branches and flowers of many thoughts, the leaves
of words, and the fruits of wicked deeds. They stand
drooping to the earth because the branches of mortal sin
can turn no other way than to the earth, the fragile dis-
ordinate substance of the world. Do not marvel, they can
turn no way but that in which they can be fed by the
^arth ; for their hunger is insatiable, and the earth is unable
to satisfy them. They are insatiable and unbearable to
themselves, and it is conformable to their state that they
should always be unquiet, longing and desiring that thing
which they have to satiety. This is the reason why such
satiety cannot content them, because they (who are infinite
in their being) are always desiring something finite ; because
their being will never end, though their life to grace ends
when they commit mortal sin.

" Man is placed above all creatures, and not beneath
them, and he cannot be satisfied or content except in some
thing greater than himself. Greater than himself there is
nothing but Myself, the Eternal God. Therefore I alone
can satisfy him, and, because he is deprived of this satisfac
tion by his guilt, he remains in continual torment and pain.

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 195

Weeping follows pain, and when he begins to weep the
wind strikes the tree of self-love, which he has made the
principle of all his being."

CHAPTER XCIV.

How the aforesaid worldly weepers are struck by four
different winds.

"THE tree is struck either by the wind of prosperity, or of
adversity, or of fear, or of conscience ; for these are the
four winds. The wind of prosperity matures pride and
great self-confidence and reviling of the neighbour. If this
wind be master, a man walks in great injustice and vanity
of heart, in impurity of body and mind, and self-esteem, and
many other things that proceed from these, which thy tongue
could not tell. Is this wind of prosperity corrupt in itself?
No, neither this nor any other wind ; it is the chief root
of the tree which is corrupt, and whence everything in the
tree is corrupted. I, Who send every gift, and give every
thing its being, am the Supreme Good, and this wind of
prosperity, which I send, is also good.

" The man weeps because his heart is not satisfied, because
he desires that which he cannot have, and, being unable to
have it, grieves, and grieving weeps, for the eye satisfies the
heart.

" After this comes a wind of servile fear, in which he is
afraid of his very shadow, fearing to lose either his own
life, or his children s, or other creatures ; or again, he fears
that he, or others, will lose their positions, honour, or
riches (fearing for these others through self-love). This
servile fear does not allow him to possess the object of his
love in peace, because he does not possess it ordinately
and in obedience to My Will, for which reason, servile fear
pursues him. He has become the miserable slave of sin,
and may esteem himself as that for which he serves.

" Meanwhile the wind of Fear has done striking him, and

196 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

the wind of tribulation and adversity, of which he was
afraid, reaches him, and deprives him of something either
in general or in particular. In general, when the man is
deprived of life by the power of death, and so deprived of
everything. In particular, when the wind takes away now
one thing, now another either health, or children, or riches,
or position, or honour according as I, the gentle Physician,
see to be necessary for your salvation. But, because your
fragility is wholly corrupt without knowledge or taste, and
much less, fruit of patience, impatience, scandals, murmuring,
hatred, and displeasure towards Me and My creatures grow
up in you. And that which I gave you for life ye have
received unto death with the same measure of grief that I
had of love in giving it. Wherefore the man is led on to
the hurtful sorrow of impatience, which dries up the soul
and kills her, depriving her of the life of grace, and also
dries up and consumes the body, and blinds the man
spiritually and corporally, and deprives him of all pleasure
and hope, so that he is deprived of the thing which he loved,
in which he had placed his affection, his hope, and faith.
Wherefore he weeps. Tears alone do not bring such
troubles, but the disordinate love and grief of the heart
whence the tear proceeds, for physical tears do not them
selves give death and sorrow, but the root, from which they
proceed, namely, the disordinate self-love of the heart. If
the heart were ordinate and had the life of grace, the tears
would also be ordinate, and would constrain Me, the Eternal
God, to do mercy to the soul. For the tear is the
herald of the state of the heart, whether it be in life or
death.

" I said that there came one wind of conscience ; and this
is the doing of My divine goodness, when souls have been
tried by prosperity, to bring them through love, and by fear,
so that, by My very importunity, their hearts might be
directed to love Me with virtue proved in tribulation, given
them that they might know the fragility and weakness of
the world. To others, whom this does not help, I give the
prick of conscience, so ineffably do I love them, in order that
they may arise, and, opening their mouths, vomit forth the

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 197

filth of their sins by holy confession. But these, like
obstinate fools justly reprobated by Me on account of their
iniquity, refuse to receive My grace in any way, fly the
prick of conscience, and continue to pass their time in
miserable pleasures, incurring My wrath and that of their
neighbour. All this happens because the root is corrupt
together with the whole tree, every part of it is in a state
of death, and full of continual sufferings, weepings, and
bitterness, as has been said. And, if they do not reform
while they have time and power to use their free-will, they
pass from this finite sorrow, which is theirs in finite time,
to infinite sorrow ; thus finite sorrow leads to infinite, for
the tears were shed with infinite hatred of virtue, namely,
with the desire of the soul founded in infinite hate. It is
true that, had they wished, they might have abandoned it
through My grace in time, while they were free. In spite
of My having called hatred infinite it is only so as regards
the affection and being of the soul in which it inheres,
neither the hatred nor the love existing in the soul are, in
themselves, infinite ; for, while you are in life, you can hate
or love only according to your pleasure. But if life ends
in a state of love of virtue, the soul receives an infinite
good ; if in hatred, the soul remains in infinite hatred, re
ceiving eternal damnation, as I have told thee when I related
to thee how some drowned themselves in the river. They
therefore can no longer desire good, deprived of My mercy,
and your brotherly love, which the saints taste together,
that is, the love of you pilgrims travelling through this
life, placed here by Me, in order to reach your End which is
Myself, Eternal Life. Neither prayers nor alms nor any good
work help the damned. They are members cut off from
the body of My divine love, for, while they lived, they would
not be joined to the obedience of My holy commandments,
in the mystical body of the holy Church, and in her sweet
obedience, whence you draw the Blood of the immaculate
Lamb My only-begotten Son; for this do they receive the
fruit of eternal damnation, with sorrow and gnashing of
teeth. These are those martyrs of the Devil of whom I
spoke to thee. The Devil gives them the fruit which he

ig8 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

has himself. See therefore that this kind of sorrow gives
the fruit of suffering in this finite time, and ultimately gives,
for infinite eternity, the companionship of the Devil."

CHAPTER XCV.

Of the fruit of the second and third kinds of tears.

" IT now falls to Me to speak of the fruit, received by those,
who are beginning to rise from guilt, through fear of punish
ment, and to acquire grace. Some there are who abandon
the death of mortal sin through fear of the penalty. This
is a very general vocation, as has been said. What fruit
does such a one receive ? This fruit, that he begins to
empty the house of his soul of impurity, cleansing his free
will with fear of punishment. When he has purified his
soul of her guilt, he receives peace of conscience, and begins
to dispose the affection of his soul, and to open the eye of
his intellect, to examine his house, in which formerly, before
it was empty, he could see and discern nothing but the
stench of various sins. He begins to receive consolation,
for the worm of conscience remains in peace, waiting, as it
were, to feast on the food of virtue. As a man who has
cured his stomach, and purged it of its humours, directs
his appetite to food, so he waits until the hand of free-will
prepares the table for him, with love of the food of virtue,
after which preparation he expects to eat. And thus in
truth, by exercising his soul in the first fear, and emptying
his affection of all sins, he receives the second fruit, that is,
the second state of tears, in which the soul, endued by the
affection of love, begins to furnish the house of virtue, and
the soul, although still imperfect, (we will suppose she has
just risen from fear), receives consolation and delight, because
her love has received pleasure from My Truth. And, through
the delight and consolation which he finds in Me, he begins
to love Me very sweetly, feeling the sweetness of My con
solation, and that of creatures through Me. Thus, exercising

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 199

love, who has entered into him in the house of his soul, as
soon as fear has purified it, he begins to receive the fruits
of My Divine Goodness.

" Wherefore, after love has entered the house of his soul to
possess it, he begins to taste many, various and divers fruits
of consolation. And, persevering, he at last receives the
fruit of laying the table, when his soul has passed from fear
to the love of virtue, having arrived at the third kind of
tears. So he lays the table of the holy Cross in his heart
and in his soul ; this is the table that he lays, because
thereon he finds the fruit of the sweet and amorous Word
declaring the honour of Me, His Father and your salvation,
for which was opened My only-begotten Son s Body, giving
Himself to you in food : then he begins to eat in honour of
Me, and for the salvation of souls, with hatred and dis
pleasure of sin. What fruit does the soul receive from this
third state of tears ? I tell thee. She receives a certain
strength founded on a holy hatred of her own sensuality,
with a pleasant fruit of true humility and patience, which
bears every scandal, and saves the soul from all suffering,
cutting out self-will, from which arises all suffering, with
the knife of hate. (It is only the sensual will that is scan
dalised at persecutions, or at the loss of spiritual or temporal
consolations, as I have before told thee, and thus comes to
impatience.) The will being dead, the soul begins to taste,
with tearful and sweet desire, the fruit of the tears of sweet
patience.

" Oh, fruit of great sweetness, how sweet art thou to
him who tastes thee in bitterness, though he please Me and
taste My sweetness !

" In time of injury thou receivest peace, for, if thou art on
the stormy sea, and perilous winds buffet, with great waves,
the bark of the soul, thou remainest peaceful and tranquil,
without any evil, covering the boat with the sweet eternal
will of God, whence thou hast received thy robe of true
and burning charity, into which water cannot enter. This
Patience is indeed, My dearest daughter, a very queen
standing on the rock of fortitude. She conquers, and is
never conquered ; she does not stand alone, but is accom-

200 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

panied by Perseverance. She is the marrow of Charity,
she it is who shews whether the garment of Charity be the
nuptial garment or not ; for if it be torn by imperfection,
at once the contrary effect of impatience is proved.

" All virtues can at one time or other hide, appearing
to be perfect when they are imperfect, but to thee, oh
Patience, they cannot be hid. For, if this sweet Patience,
the marrow of Charity, be in the soul, she proves that all
the virtues are living and perfect, and, if she be not there,
she shows that all the virtues are imperfect and have not
yet attained to the table of the holy Cross, where Patience
is conceived in self-knowledge and in knowledge of My
goodness to the soul, and brought forth by means of holy
hatred and anointed with true humility. To this Patience
is not denied the food of My honour, and the salvation of
souls, indeed, she eats of it continually, and this is the
truth. Gaze, dearest daughter, on the sweet and glorious
martyrs who, by their endurance, ate the food of souls.
Their death gave life, they raised the dead, and dissipated
the darkness of mortal sin. The world, with all its grandeurs,
and kings, with all their power, could not defend themselves
as they did by virtue of the queen, sweet Patience. This
virtue stands like a lantern on a pole. This is the
glorious fruit given by tears, when a man has arrived at love
of his neighbour, eating the slain and immaculate Lamb,
My only-begotten Son, with painful and anxious desire, and
with intolerable pain at the offence done to Me, his
Creator, not an afflictive pain, because love slays with true
patience all fear and self-love which can give pain, but a
consolatory suffering, for My offence alone, and the loss of
the neighbour, founded in charity, which sorrow fattens the
soul, rejoicing in herself, for she has in her sorrow a
demonstrative proof that I am present in her by grace."

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 201

CHAPTER XCVI.

Of the fruit of the fourth and unitive tears.

11 1 HAVE spoken to thee of the fruit of the third kind of
tears ; now follows the fourth and last state of unitive
tears, which is not separated from the third but united to it,
as has been said, in the same way as love for Me is united
with love of the neighbour ; the one love flavours the other.
So greatly has the soul developed in reaching the fourth
state, that she not only bears with patience, but even desires,
with joy, to suffer to such an extent that she despises every
recreation from whatever quarter it come, in order that she
may be conformed to My Truth, Christ crucified.

" She receives the fruit of quietness of mind, a union with
My sweet Divine Nature, where she tastes the milk, as
when the child, who sleeps at peace on the breast of its
mother, draws to itself milk by means of the flesh of its
mother ; so the soul, arrived at this last state, reposes on
the breast of My Divine Charity, keeping in the mouth of
holy desire the flesh of Christ crucified, that is, by follow
ing His Footsteps and doctrine ; for the soul learnt well,
when she was in the third state, that it was not right for
her to come directly to Me, the Father, because no penalty
could be borne by Me, the Eternal Father ; but it is other
wise with My beloved Son, the sweet and amorous Word,
and therefore it is that you cannot walk without pain, and,
with much endurance, will you attain to proved virtue. So
the soul reposes at the breast of Christ crucified, Who is
the Truth, and thus draws to herself the milk of virtue, in
which she finds the life of grace, tasting in herself My
Divine Nature, which gives sweetness to virtue, for truly
the virtues are not in themselves sweet unless they are
performed in and united to Me the Divine Love, so that the
soul may have no regard to her own profit, but only act for
My honour and the salvation of souls.

" Now look, sweet daughter, how sweet and glorious is
this state, in which the soul has made so close a union with

202 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

the breast of Charity, that the mouth is not found without
the breast, neither the breast without the milk. And so
this soul does not find herself without Christ crucified or
without Me, the Eternal Father, Whom she finds, tasting
the Supreme and Eternal Deity. Oh, who can see how the
powers of that soul are filled !

" The memory is filled with continual remembrance of Me,
which remembrance she draws to herself through love of
My benefits, as the affection of charity with which I gave
them to her. And particularly the benefit of creation,
seeing herself created in My image and similitude, through
which benefit, spoken of in the first state, she feels suffering
for the ingratitude with which she received it. Wherefore
she has arisen from her misery through the benefit of the
Blood of Christ, with which I re-created her to grace, wash
ing the face of your souls from the leprosy of sin.

" In the second state the soul found sweetness, tasting the
sweetness of love, and the displeasure caused her by guilt,
as regards which, she sees that so displeasing to Me was
her guilt, that I punished it in the person of My only-
begotten Son.

" Later she discovers the advent of the Holy Spirit, Who
convinced, and still convinces, the soul of truth. When does
the soul receive this light ? When she has known My
benefits in her, in both the first and the second states.
She then receives a perfect light, knowing the truth of Me,
the Eternal Father, that is, that by love have I created her,
in order to give her eternal life.

" For this indeed is the truth, and I have shewn it forth
to you in the Blood of Christ crucified. When the soul
has known this love, she loves it, and loving it she proves
her love, sincerely loving what I love, and hating what I
hate. Thus she finds herself in the third state of love to
her neighbour.

" At this breast of love the memory fills itself, forsaking all
imperfections, for it recalls, and keeps in itself, My benefits.
The intellect has received light, and, looking into the memory,
recognises the truth, and, having lost the blindness of self-
love, remains in its true object the Sun of Christ crucified

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 203

where it learns to know God and man. Besides this know
ledge of union, there rises on the soul a light not acquired
by nature, nor obtained through her own virtue, but given
her, as a grace, by My sweet Truth, who does not despise
the anxious desires and fatigue that she has offered before
Me. Then the affection, following the intellect, unites itself
with Me in a most perfect and ardent love. And if any one
should ask Me who this soul is ? I would reply, She is
another Myself, become so by the union of love. What
tongue can tell the excellence of this last unitive state, and
the divine and varied fruits that are received from it, the
three powers of the soul being filled! This is that sweet gather
ing together which I mentioned to thee, in three general
steps, in a previous discourse on the words of My Truth.

" The tongue is not sufficient to relate^it, but well did the
holy doctors, illuminated with this glorious light, prove its
nature, for with it they explained the mysteries of holy
Scripture. Hence that saying of the glorious Thomas of
Aquin, that his learning had come to him rather by means
of prayer, elevation of mind, and a Divine Light infused
into his intellect, than by human study. He was a light
whom I placed in the mystic body of the Holy Church
to disperse the shadows of error. Turn to the glorious
John the Evangelist what light did he not acquire on the
precious Breast of Christ, My Truth ! And with this light
he preached My Gospel for so long a time. And all the
saints have manifested it, some in one way and some in
another ; but the intrinsic feeling, the ineffable sweetness
of this perfect union cannot be told by thy tongue which is
but a finite thing. It would seem that Paul meant this
when he said : Eye hath not seen what He hath laid up for
them that love Him. 1 Oh, how sweet above all sweetness
is that dwelling which the soul has made by perfect union
with Me ! She sheds odours over the whole world, the
fruits of continual and humble prayers, the odour of her
desire cries out for the salvation of souls, with no human
voice, before My Divine Majesty. These are the fruits of
union, eaten by the soul in this life in the last state,
acquired by many fatigues, tears, and sweatings. And

204 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

thus the soul passes, by true perseverance, from the life of
grace and from this union, which, though perfect as far as
grace goes, is yet imperfect, to a durable eternal union. I
call this union imperfect, because, while the soul is bound
in the body in this life, she cannot satiate herself with
what she desires, and also because she is bound by the
law of sin, of her passions, though these have been put to
sleep by her virtue. But the passions are not dead, for
they will wake up if the instrument of virtue, which makes
them sleep, be removed ; for this reason the union is said
to be imperfect, but it leads on the soul to receive durable
perfection, which can never for any reason be taken away
from the soul, because it consists, as I have told thee (in
speaking of the Blessed), in tasting Me in very truth, the
Eternal Life, the Supreme and Eternal Good, Who never
come to an end. These have received eternal life, in con
tradistinction to those others who have received the fruit
of their sorrow, eternal death. They have come from
grief to joy, receiving eternal life with the fruit of their
tears, shouting with burning love, and offering tears of fire
before Me for you. And now I have completed the relation
of the different states of tears, and of the perfection and
fruit which the soul receives from them, and how the
perfect receive, on account of them, eternal life, and the
wicked, eternal damnation."

CHAPTER XCVII.

Y

How this devout soul, thanking God for His explanation of the
above-mentioned states of tears, makes three petitions.

THEN this soul, eager with the greatness of her desire,
through the sweetness of the explanation and satisfaction
which she had received from the Truth, concerning the
state of tears, said as one enamoured " Thanks, thanks
be to Thee, Supreme and Eternal Father, Satisfier of holy
desires, and Lover of our salvation, Who, through Thy

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 205

Love, didst give us Love Himself, in the time of our
warfare with Thee, in the person of Th} only-begotten
Son. By this abyss of Thy fiery Love, I beg of Thee
grace and mercy that I may come to Thee truly in
the light, and not flee far in darkness away from Thy
doctrine, of which Thou hast clearly demonstrated to me
the truth, so that, by the light thereof, I perceive two other
p6ints, concerning which I fear that they are, or may
become, stumbling-blocks to me. I beg, Eternal Father,
that, before I leave the subject of these states of tears,
Thou wouldst explain these points also to me. The first
is when a person desirous of serving Thee, comes to me,
or to some other servant of Thine to ask for counsel, how
should I teach him ? I know, Sweet and Eternal God,
that Thou didst reply above to this question c I am He
Who takes delight in few words and many deeds. Never
theless, if it please Thy Goodness to grant me a few more
words on the subject, it will cause me the greatest pleasure.
And also, if on some occasion, when I am praying for Thy
creatures, and in particular for Thy servants, and I seem
to see the subjects of my prayer, in one I find (in
the course of my prayer) a well-disposed mind, a soul
rejoicing in Thee ; and in another, as it might seem
to me, a mind full of darkness ; have I the right, O
Eternal Father, to judge the one soul to be in light, and the
other in darkness ? Or, supposing I should see that the
one lives in great penance, and the other does not, should
I be right to judge that he who does the greater penance
has the higher perfection ? I pray Thee, so that I may not
be deceived through my limited vision, that Thou wouldst
declare to me in detail, what Thou hast already said
in general on this matter. The second request I have
to make is, that Thou wilt explain further to me about the
sign which Thou didst say the soul received on being
visited by Thee the sign which revealed Thy Presence.
If I remember well, oh, Eternal Truth, Thou didst say that
the soul remained in joy and courageous virtue. I would fain
know whether this joy can consist with the delusion of
the passion of spiritual self-love ; for if it were so, I

206 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

would humbly confine myself to the sign of virtue. These
are the things which I beg Thee to tell me, so that I may
serve Thee and my neighbour in truth, and not fall into
false judgment concerning thy creatures and servants. For
it seems to me that the habit of judging keeps the soul far
from Thee, so I do not wish to fall into this snare."

CHAPTER XCVIII.

How the light of reason is necessary to every soul that wishes to
serve God in truth ; and first of the light of reason in general.

THEN the Eternal God, delighting in the thirst and hunger
of that soul, and in the purity of her heart, and the desire
with which she longed to serve Him, turned the eye of His
benignity and mercy upon her, saying "Oh, best-beloved,
dearest and sweetest daughter, my spouse ! rise out of
thyself, and open the eye of thy intellect to see Me, the
Infinite Goodness, and the ineffable love which I have
towards thee and My other servants. And open the ear of
the desire which thou feelest towards Me, and remember,
that if thou dost not see, thou canst not hear, that is to
say, that the soul that does not see into My Truth with the
eye of her intellect, cannot hear or know My Truth, where
fore in order that thou mayest the better know it, rise above
the feelings of thy senses.

"And I, Who take delight in thy request, will satisfy thy
demand. Not that thou canst increase My delight, for I am
the cause of thee and of thy increase ; not those of Mine.
Yet the very pleasure that I take in the work of My own
hands causes Me delight."

Then that soul obeyed and rose out of herself, in order
to learn the true solution of her difficulty. And the Eternal
God said to her, " In order that thou mayest the better
understand what I shall say to thee, I shall revert to the
beginning of thy request concerning the three lights which
issue from Me, the True Light. The first is a general

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 207

light dwelling in those who live in ordinary charity. (I
shall repeat to thee here many things concerning these
lights, which I have already told thee, in spite of My
having done so, in order that thy creeping intelligence
may better understand that which thou wishest to know.)
The other two lights dwell in those who, having abandoned
the world, desire perfection. Besides this I will explain to
thee thy request, telling thee in great detail that which I
have already pointed out to thee in general. Thou knowest,
as I have told thee, that, without the light, no one can walk
in the truth, that is, without the light of reason, which light
of reason you draw from Me the True Light, by means of the
eye of thy intellect and the light of faith which I have given
you in holy baptism, though you may have lost it by your
own defects. For, in baptism, and through the mediation
of the Blood of My only-begotten Son, you have received
the form of faith ; which faith you exercise in virtue by the
light of reason, which gives you life and causes you to walk
in the path of truth, and, by its means, to arrive at Me,
the True Light, for, without it, you would plunge into
darkness.

" It is necessary for you to have two lights derived from
this primary light, and to these two I will also add a third.
The first lightens you all to know the transitory nature of
the things of the world, all of which pass like the wind.
But this you cannot know thoroughly, unless you first
recognise your own fragility, how strong is your inclination,
through the law of perversity with which your members are
bound, to rebel against Me, your Creator (not that by this
law any man can be constrained to commit any, even the
smallest sin, against his will, but that this law of perversity
fights lustily against the Spirit). I did not impose this law
upon you, in order that My rational creature should be
conquered by it, but in order that he should prove and
increase the virtue of his soul, because virtue cannot be
proved, except by its contrary. Sensuality is contrary to
the spirit, and yet, by means of sensuality, the soul is able
to prove the love which she has for Me, her Creator. How
does she prove it ? When, with anger and displeasure, she

208 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

rises against herself. This law has also been imposed in
order to preserve the soul in true humility. Wherefore
thou seest that, while I created the soul to Mine own image
and similitude, placing her in such dignity and beauty, I
caused her to be accompanied by the vilest of all things,
imposing on her the law of perversity, imprisoning her in a
body, formed of the vilest substance of the earth, so that,
seeing in what her true beauty consisted, she should not
raise her head in pride against Me. Wherefore, to one who
possesses this light, the fragility of his body is a cause of
humiliation to the soul, and is in no way matter for pride,
but rather for true and perfect humility. So that this law
does not constrain you to any sin by its strivings, but
supplies a reason to make you know yourselves and the
instability of the world. This should be seen by the eye
of the intellect, with light of the holy faith, of which I
said to thee that it was the pupil of the eye. This is that
light which is necessary in general to every rational creature,
whatever may be his condition, who wishes to participate
in the life of grace, in the fruit of the Blood of the immacu
late Lamb. This is the ordinary light, that is, the light
which all persons must possess, as has been said, for,
without it, the soul would be in a state of damnation. And,
for this reason, because the soul, being without the light, is
not in a state of grace, inasmuch as, not having the light,
she does not know the evil of her sin or its cause, and
therefore cannot avoid or hate it.

" And similarly if the soul know not good, and the reason
of good, that is to say virtue, she cannot love or desire either
Me, Who am the Essential Good, or virtue, which I have given
you as an instrument and means for you to receive My
grace, and Myself the True Good. See then how necessary
is this light, for your sins consist in nothing else than in
loving that which I hate, and in hating that which I love.
I love virtue and hate vice ; he who loves vice and hates
virtue offends Me, and is deprived of My grace. Such a
one walks as if blind, for he knows not the cause of vice,
that is, his sensual self-love, nor does he hate himself on
account of it ; he is ignorant of vice and of the evil which

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 209

follows it : he is ignorant of virtue and of Me, Who am the
cause of his obtaining life-giving virtue; he is ignorant of
his own dignity, which he should maintain by advancing to
grace, by means of virtue. See, therefore, how his ignorance
is the cause of all his evil, and how thou also needest this
light, as has been said."

CHAPTER XCIX.

Of those who have placed their desire rather in the mortification of
the body than in the destruction of their own will ; and of the
second light, more perfect than the former general one.

" WHEN the soul has arrived at the attainment of the
general light, of which I have spoken, she should not remain
contented, because, as long as you are pilgrims in this life,
you are capable of growth, and he who does not go forward,
by that very fact, is turning back. She should either grow
in the general light, which she has acquired through My
Grace, or anxiously strive to attain to the second and
perfect light, leaving the imperfect and reaching the perfect.
For, if the soul truly have light, she will wish to arrive at
perfection. In this second perfect light are to be found
two kinds of perfection ; for they may be called perfect who
have abandoned the general way of living of the world.
One perfection is that of those who give themselves up
wholly to the castigation of the body, doing great and
severe penance. These, in order that their sensuality may
not rebel against their reason, have placed their desire
rather in the mortification of the body than in the destruc
tion of their self-will, as I have explained to thee in another
place. These feed their souls at the table of penance, and
are good and perfect, if their penance be illuminated by
discretion, and founded on Me, if, that is to say, they act
with true knowledge of themselves and of Me, with great
humility, and wholly conformed to the judgment of My
Will, and not to that of the will of man. But, if they were
not thus clothed with My Will, in true humility, they would

210 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

often offend against their own perfection, esteeming them
selves the judges of those who do not walk in the same
path. Knowest thou why this would happen to them ?
Because they have placed all their labour and desire in the
mortification of the body, rather than in the destruction of
their own will. Such as these wish always to choose their
own times, and places, and consolations, after their own
fashion, and also the persecutions of the world and of the
Devil, as I have narrated to thee in speaking of the second
state of perfection.

" They say, cheating themselves with the delusion of their
own self-will, which I have already called their spiritual self-
will, I wish to have that consolation, and not these
battles, or these temptations of the Devil, not, indeed, for my
own pleasure, but in order to please God the more, and in
order to retain Him the more in my soul through grace ;
because it seems to me that I should possess Him more,
and serve Him better in that way than in this. And this
is the way the soul often falls into trouble, and becomes
tedious and insupportable to herself; thus injuring her own
perfection ; yet she does not perceive it, nor that, within her,
lurks the stench of pride, and there she lies. Now, if the
soul were not in this condition, but were truly humble and
not presumptuous, she would be illuminated to see that I,
the Primary and Sweet Truth, grant condition, and time,
and place, and consolations, and tribulations as they may be
needed for your salvation, and to complete the perfection to
which I have elected the soul. And she would see that I
give everything through love, and that therefore, with love
and reverence, should she receive everything, which is what
the souls in the second state do, and, by doing so, arrive at
the third state. Of whom I will now speak to thee,
explaining to thee the nature of these two states which
stand in the most perfect light."

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 211

CHAPTER C.

Of the third and most perfect state, and of reason, and of the works
done by the soul who has arrived at this light. And of a
beautiful vision which this devout soul once received, in which
the method of arriving at perfect purity is fully treated, and the
means to avoid judging our neighbour is spoken of.

" THOSE who belong to the third state, which immediately
follows the last, having arrived at this glorious light, are
perfect in every condition in which they may be, and receive
every event which I permit to happen to them with due
reverence, as I have mentioned to thee when speaking of
the third and unitive state of the soul. These deem them
selves worthy of the troubles and stumbling-blocks caused
them by the world, and of the privation of their own con
solation, and indeed of whatever circumstance happens to
them. And inasmuch as they deem themselves worthy of
trouble, so also do they deem themselves unworthy of the
fruit which they receive after their trouble. They have
known and tasted in the light My Eternal Will, which
wishes naught else but your good, and gives and permits
these troubles in order that you should be sanctified in Me.
Wherefore the soul having known My Will, clothes herself
with it, and fixes her attention on nothing else except
seeing in what way she can preserve and increase her per
fection to the glory and praise of My Name, opening the
eye of her intellect and fixing it in the light of faith upon
Christ crucified, My only-begotten Son, loving and follow
ing His doctrine, which is the rule of the road for perfect
and imperfect alike. And see, how My Truth, the Lamb,
Who became enamoured of her when He saw her, gives
the soul the doctrine of perfection. She knows what this
perfection is, having seen it practised by the sweet and
amorous Word, My only-begotten Son, Who was fed at the
table of holy desire, seeking the honour of Me, the Eternal
Father, and your salvation. And, inflamed with this desire,
He ran, with great eagerness, to the shameful death of the

212 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

Cross, and accomplished the obedience which was imposed
on Him by Me, His Father, not shunning labours or insults
or withdrawing on account of your ingratitude or ignor
ance of so great a benefit, or because of the persecutions
of the Jews, or on account of the insults, derision, grum
bling, and shouting of the people. But all this He passed
through like the true Captain and Knight that He was,
Whom I had placed on the battle-field to deliver you from
the hands of the Devil, so that you might be free, and
drawn out of the most terrible slavery in which you could
ever be, and also to teach you His road, His doctrine, and
His rule, so that you might open the Door of Me, Eternal
Life, with the key of His precious Blood, shed with such
fire of love, with such hatred of your sins. It was as if
the sweet and amorous Word, My Son, should have said to
you: Behold, I have made the road, and opened thd
door with My Blood. Do not you then be negligent to
follow, laying yourselves down to rest in self-love and
ignorance of the road, presuming to choose to serve Me in
your own way, instead of in the way which I have made
straight for you by means of My Truth, the Incarnate
Word, and built up with His Blood. Rise up then, promptly,
and follow Him, for no one can reach Me, the Father, if not
by Him ; He is the Way and the Door by which you must
enter into Me, the Sea Pacific.

" When therefore the soul has arrived at seeing, knowing,
and tasting, in its full sweetness, this light, she runs, as one
enamoured and inflamed with love, to the table of holy
desire ; she does not see herself in herself, seeking her own
consolation either spiritual or temporal, but, like one who
has placed his all in this light and knowledge, and has
destroyed his own will, she shuns no labour from whatever
source it comes, but rather enduring the troubles, the
insults, the temptations of the Devil, and the murmurings
of men, eats at the table of the most holy Cross, the food
of the honour of Me, the Eternal God, and of the salvation
of souls ; seeking no reward, either from Me or from
creatures, because she is stripped of mercenary love, that
is of love for Me based on interested motives, and is clothed

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 213

in perfect light, loving Me in perfect purity, with no other
regard than for the praise and glory of My Name, serving
neither Me for her own delight, nor her neighbour for her
own profit, but purely through love alone. Such as these
have lost themselves, and have stripped themselves of the
Old Man, that is of their own sensuality, and, having clothed
themselves with the New Man, the sweet Christ Jesus, My
Truth, follow Him manfully. These are they who sit at
the table of holy desire, having been more anxious to slay
their own will than to slay and mortify their own body.
They have indeed mortified their body, though not as an
end in itself, but as a means which helps them to stay their
own will, as I said to thee when explaining that sentence
that I wished few words and many deeds, and so ought
you to do. Their principal desire should be to slay their
own will, so that it may not seek or wish anything else than
to follow My sweet Truth, Christ crucified, seeking the
honour and glory of My Name and the salvation of souls.
Those who are in this sweet light know it, and remain
constantly in peace and quiet, and no one scandalises them,
for they have cut away that thing by which stumbling-
blocks are caused, namely their own will. And all the
persecutions, with which the world and the Devil can attack
them, slide under their feet, standing, as they do, in the
waters of many tribulations and temptations, and do not
hurt them, for they remain attached to Me by the umbilical
cord of fiery desire. Such a man rejoices in everything,
nor does he make himself judge of My servants, or of any
rational creature, but rejoices in every condition and in
every manner of holiness which he sees, saying : Thanks
be to Thee, Eternal Father, Who hast in Thy House many
mansions. And he rejoices more in the different ways of
holiness which he sees, than if he were to see all travelling
by one road, because, in this way, he perceives the greatness
of My Goodness become more manifest, and thus, rejoicing
draws from all the fragrance of the rose. And not only
in the case of good, but even when he sees something
evidently sinful, he does not fall into judgment, but rather
into true and holy compassion, interceding with Me for

214 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

sinners and saying, with perfect humility : To-day it is
thy turn, and to-morrow it will be mine unless the Divine
Grace preserve me.

" Enamour thyself, dearest daughter, of this sweet and
excellent state, and gaze at those who run in this glorious
light and holiness, for they have holy minds, and eat at
the table of holy desire, and, with the light, have arrived
at feeding on the food of souls, that is, the honour of Me,
the Eternal Father, being clothed with burning love in the
sweet garment of My Lamb, My only-begotten Son, namely
His doctrine. These do not lose their time in passing
false judgments, either on My servants or the servants of
the world, and they are never scandalised by any murmurings
of men, either for their own sake or that of others. That
is to say, in their own case they are content to endure any
thing for My Name s sake ; and when an injury is done to
some one else, they endure it with compassion of this injured
neighbour, and without murmuring against him who caused
the injury, or him who received it, because their love is not
disordinate, but has been ordered in Me, the Eternal God.

" And, since their love is so ordered, these souls, my dearest
daughter, never take offence from those they love, nor from
any rational creature, their will being dead and not alive,,
wherefore they never assume the right to judge the will of
men, but only the will of My Clemency. These observe the
doctrine which, as thou knowest, was given thee by My
Truth at the beginning of thy life, when thou wast thinking
in what way thou couldst arrive at perfect purity, and wast
praying to Me with a great desire of doing so. Thou
knowest what was replied to thee, while thou wast asleep,,
concerning this holy desire, and that the words resounded
not only in thy mind, but also in thine ear. So much so,
that, if thou rememberest truly, thou didst return to thy
waking body, when My Truth said, i Wilt thou arrive at
perfect purity, and be freed from stumbling-blocks, so that
thy mind may not be scandalised by anything ? Unite
thyself always to Me by the affection of love, for I am the
Supreme and Eternal Purity. I am that Fire Which purifies
the soul, and the closer the soul is to Me, the purer she

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 215

becomes, and the- further she is from Me, the more does her
purity leave her; which is the reason why men of the world
fall into such iniquities, for they are separated from Me,
while the soul, who, without any medium, unites herself
directly to Me, participates in My Purity. Another thing
is necessary for thee to arrive at this union and purity,
namely, that thou shouldest never judge the will of man in
anything that thou mayest see done or said by any creature
whatsoever, either to thyself or to others. My will alone
shouldst thou consider, both in them and in thyself.
And, if thou shouldest see evident sins or defects, draw out
of those thorns the rose, that is to say, offer them to Me, with
holy compassion. In the case of injuries done to thyself,
judge that My will permits this in order to prove virtue in
thyself, and in My other servants, esteeming that he who
acts thus does so as the instrument of My will ; perceiving,
moreover, that such apparent sinners may frequently have a
good intention, for no one can judge the secrets of the heart
of man. That which thou dost not see thou shouldst not
judge in thy mind, even though it may externally be open
mortal sin, seeing nothing in others but My will, not in
order to judge, but, as has been said, with holy compassion.
In this way thou wilt arrive at perfect purity, because
acting thus, thy mind will not be scandalised, either in Me
or in thy neighbour. Otherwise thou fallest into contempt
of thy neighbour, if thou judgest his evil will towards thee,
instead of My will acting in him. Such contempt and
scandal separates the soul from Me, and prevents perfection,
and, in some cases, deprives a man of grace, more or less
according to the gravity of his contempt, and the hatred
which his judgment has conceived against his neighbour.

" A different reward is received by the soul who perceives
only My will, which, as has been said, wishes nothing else
but your good ; so that everything which I give or permit
to happen to you, I give so that you may arrive at the end
for which I created you. And because the soul remains
always in the love of her neighbour, she remains always in
Mine, and thus remains united to Me. Wherefore, in order
to arrive at purity, thou must entreat Me to do three things ;

216 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

to grant thee to be united to me by the affection of love,
retaining in thy memory the benefits thou hast received
from Me ; and with the eye of thy intellect to see the
affection of My love, with which I love you inestimably ;
and in the will of others to discern My will only, and not
their evil will, for I am their Judge, not thou, and, in doing
this, thou wilt arrive at all perfection.

" This was the doctrine given to thee by My Truth, if thou
rememberest well. Now I tell thee, dearest daughter, that
such as these, who have learnt this doctrine taste the earnest,
of eternal life in this life ; and, if thou hast well retained
this doctrine, thou wilt not fall into the snares of the Devil,
because thou wilt recognise them in the case about which
thou hast asked Me.

" But, nevertheless, in order to satisfy thy desire more
clearly, I will tell thee and shew thee how men should never
disce r n by judgment, but with holy compassion."

CHAPTER CI.

In what way they, who stand in the above-mentioned third most
perfect light, receive the earnest of eternal life in this life.

" WHY did I say to thee that they received the earnest of
eternal life ? I say that they receive the earnest-money,
but not the full payment, because they wait to receive it in
Me, the Eternal Life, where they have life without death,
and satiety without disgust, and hunger without pain, for
from that divine hunger pain is far away, and though they
have what they desire, disgust is far from satiety, for I am
the flawless Food of Life. It is true that, in this life, they
receive the earnest, and taste it in this way, namely that
the soul begins to hunger for the honour of the Eternal
God, and for the food of the salvation of other souls, and
being hungry, she eats, that is to say, nourishes herself
with love of her neighbour, which causes her hunger and
desire, for the love of the neighbour is a food which never

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 217

satiates him who feeds on it, the eater being insatiable and
always remains hungry. So this earnest-money is a
commencement of a guarantee which is given to man, in
virtue of which he expects one day to receive his payment,
not through the perfection of the earnest-money in itself,
but through faith, through the certitude which he has of
reaching the completion of his being and receiving his
payment. Wherefore this enamoured soul, clothed in My
Truth, having already received in this life the earnest of
My love, and of her neighbour s, is not yet perfect, but
expects perfection in immortal life. I say that this earnest
is not perfect, because the soul who tastes it has not, as
yet, the perfection which would prevent her feeling pain in
herself, or in others. In herself, through the offence done
to Me by the law of perversity which is bound in her
members and struggles against the spirit, and in others by
the offence of her neighbour. She has indeed, in a sense,
a perfect grace, but not that perfection of My saints, who
have arrived at Me, Eternal Life, for, as has been said,
their desires are without suffering, and yours are not.
These servants of Mine, as I have said to thee in another
place, who nourish themselves at this table of holy desire,
are blessed and full of grief, even as My only-begotten
Son was, on the wood of the holy Cross, because, while
His flesh was in grief and torment, His soul was blessed
through its union with the divine nature. In like manner
these are blessed by the union of their holy desire towards
Me, clothed, as has been said, in My sweet Will, and they
are full of grief through compassion for their neighbour,
and because they afflict their own self-love, depriving it of
sensual delights and consolations."

218 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

CHAPTER CII.

How one should reprove one s neighbour, without falling into
false judgment.

" Now listen, dearest daughter. In order that thou mightest
understand better that which thou desiredst to know, I
have spoken to thee of the general light, which you all
must have, in whatever state you be, speaking of those who
live in ordinary charity. And I have also spoken of those
who are in the perfect light, which light I distinguished in
two instances, first, that of those who, having left the
world, applied themselves to the mortification of the body,
and of those who, in all things, destroyed their own will ;
these latter were the perfect souls who nourish themselves
at the table of holy desire. I will now speak particularly
to thee, and in speaking to thee, and in satisfying thy
desire, I shall also speak to others. I wish that thou
shouldest do three things in particular, so that ignorance
may not prevent the perfection to which I call thee. And
I will tell thee the first thing I wish thee to do, in order
that the Devil, hidden in the cloak of love of the neighbour,
may not nourish within thy soul the root of presumption,
for, by this means, thou wouldest fall into false judgments,
which I have forbidden thee, ordering thee to judge aright,
whereas thou wouldest judge wrongly, returning to thy
human point of view, for the Devil would often cause thee
to see what was true, in order to lead thee into falsehood.
This he would do in order to make thee judge the minds
and intentions of My rational creatures, which fall, as I
have told thee, under My judgment alone. This, then, is
the first of the three things which I wish thee to do and
observe, namely, that thou shouldest never deliver a judg
ment, except under a certain condition, but under that
condition I wish thee to do it. The condition is this,
unless I have expressly manifested to thee in thy mind,
not once, nor twice, but several times thy neighbour s
fault, thou shouldst say nothing in particular to him who

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 219

seems to thee to fall into it, but rather in general correct
the vices of those who come to visit thee, and plant the
virtues lovingly and with benignity, but with a certain
sternness in thy benignity, according as thou shalt see need.
And if it should appear to thee that I have shown to thee
many times the defects of others, unless thou seest that it
was an express revelation from Me, as has been said, thou
shouldest say nothing in particular, but devote thyself to
the surer way, so as to dispel the delusion and malice of
the Devil ; for, with the blade of this desire to judge, he
might wound thee, causing thee often to judge thy neigh
bour falsely, and, thus, often to scandalise him.

" Wherefore let silence dwell in thy mouth, or holy con
versation about virtue, and the contemptibleness of sin, and
attribute that vice, which thou seemest to recognise in
another, to thyself, at the same time as to him, and if, in
truth, this person should have fallen into that vice, he will
correct himself better, seeing himself so sweetly treated,
and will be obliged, by thy pleasant warnings, to correct
himself, and will himself tell thee that very thing which
thou wast on the point of saying to him ; and thus thou
wilt remain in safety, and wilt have cut away the road
under the Devil s feet, who will not be able to delude thee,
or prevent the perfection of thy soul. I will too that thou
shouldst know that thou shouldst not trust all thou seest,
but rather cast it behind thee and refuse to look at it, look
ing only at thyself and recognising in thyself My bounty and
My goodness. Thus do they, who have arrived at the last
state, of which I spoke to thee ; they constantly turn to the
valley of self-knowledge, and do not, on that account,
diminish the height of their union with Me. And this is
the first of the three things which, as I told thee, I wish
thee to do, in order to serve Me in truth."

220 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

CHAPTER CIII.

How, if God should manifest to a person, praying for another, the
mind of that other full of darkness, he should not be judged on
that account to be in a state of sin.

" IF at any time it should happen to thee, as in the case of
which thou askest Me the explanation, that thou shouldst
be praying in particular for one of My creatures, and that
during thy prayer, thou shouldest see in him, for whom thou
prayest, a ray of grace, and in another, none at all, both
persons being servants of Mine, thou shouldest not judge
him who appears to thee to have a confused and darkened
mind, to be in a state of grave sin, because often thy judg
ment would be false ; and I wish thee to know that often,
when praying for one and the same person, thou wilt some
times see him full of light, and of a holy desire before Me; (in
so good a state will he appear to thee, that thy soul will
grow fat therewith, which is the effect of love, by which
you all participate in each other s good) ; and sometimes
thou wilt see the same person, far away in mind from Me,
and filled with darkness and temptations, so that it will
seem to thee a weariness to pray for him to hold him
before Me. This happens sometimes through the defect of
him for whom thou hast prayed, but more often, not through
his defect, but because I, the Eternal God, have withdrawn
Myself from that soul, as I often do, to bring that soul to
greater perfection, according to what I told thee when
speaking of the states of the soul. I may have withdrawn,
not My grace, but the feeling of it, its sweetness and con
solation, deprived of which the mind remains barren, dry,
and in grief, which grief I manifest to the soul who is
praying, on account of the grace and love which I have to
the soul who receives the fruit of the prayer, so that he
who is praying may help him to disperse the clouds which
are in his mind.

" See then, sweetest and dearest daughter, how ignorant
and worthy of reprehension would be the judgment which

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 221

thou or another might make at the sight alone of this soul ;
thou wouldst judge that vice was there because I showed
her to thee full of darkness, whereas thou seest that such a
soul is not deprived of grace, but only of the feeling of
My sweetness which I have given her. I wish, therefore,
thou and My other servants should also wish, that you
should give yourselves up to perfect self-knowledge, so that
you may perfectly recognise My goodness in you, and leave
this and every other judgment to Me, for judgment is Mine
and not yours.

" Abandon judgment, which is Mine, and take up rather
compassion, with hunger for My honour and salvation of
souls. Preach virtue with yearning desire, and reprove
vice in thyself and in others, as I have shown thee. In
this way wilt thou come to Me, in truth, and wilt show
that thou hast kept in mind, and observed the doctrine,
which was given thee by My Truth namely, to make My
will the subject of thy judgments, and not that of man.

"This must thou do if thou wilt possess virtue in all its
purity, and wilt stand in the last and most perfect light,
eating at the table of holy desire of the food of souls, to the
glory and praise of My Name."

CHAPTER CIV.

How penance should not be taken for the foundation or principal
end in itself : but rather the affection and love of virtue.

" I HAVE spoken to thee, dearest daughter, of two lights,
and I will now speak to thee of the third, to which I would
have thee pay great attention, reproving thyself, if, at any
time, the devil, or thy own low point of view, should have
tempted thee to wish to send all My servants along the
same road as thyself, for this would be contrary to the
doctrine given thee by My Truth. It may often happen
that a person, seeing many travelling by the road of severe
penance, would wish to send all by that road, and, seeing

222 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

that they do not all choose it, he is angered, and takes
scandal, thinking that such are acting wrongly. Now, see
how such a one deceives himself, for it will often happen
that he who is thought evil of because he does less penance,
will do better and be more virtuous than he who, doing more
penance, murmurs at it.

" Wherefore I said to thee above, that those who feed at
the table of penance, unless they do so with true humility,
their penance, not being to them an end in itself, but merely
an instrument of virtue, will often, by this vice of murmur
ing, offend against their own perfection. They should there
fore not remain in ignorance, but should see that perfection
does not consist only in the maceration or slaying of the
body, but in the destruction of their own perverse will. It
is by this road of the extinguishing and submission of the
human will to My sweet will, that I wish thee to desire
all to walk. This is the doctrine of that glorious light,
in which the soul runs as one enamoured, clothed with
My Truth. I do not on that account despise penance, for
it is good to macerate the body when it strives to fight
against the Spirit, but I do not wish, dearest daughter, that
thou shouldst impose penance as a rule to any one, because
all bodies are not equal, or of the same strong complexion ;
because one man may have a stronger nature than another,
and also because it often happens, as I have told thee, that
penance, when it has been begun, has to be relinquished,
on account of many accidents which may occur. And, if
the foundation of thy soul was laid in penance, or thou
hadst caused others so to lay it, thou wouldest then faint
and become imperfect, lacking consolation, for thou wouldst
be deprived of the thing which thou didst love, and which
had become thy principal object, and so thou wouldst
seem to thyself to be deprived of Me, and of My goodness,
and wouldst thus fall into weariness, bitterness and con
fusion. In this way, thou wouldst lose the benefit of
the spiritual exercise and the fervent prayer which thou
wast wont to make when performing thy penance. Thus,
having relinquished thy penance on account of some accident
or other, thou wouldst no longer find that savour in prayer

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 223

which thou hadst before. This would happen because thy
foundation would be laid rather in penance than in yearning
desire desire, that is, for true and real virtues.

"See, then, how much harm would follow from placing
thy end solely in penance, how thou wouldst become
ignorant, and fall into murmuring judgments against My
servants, as has been said, and into weariness and great
bitterness, endeavouring to serve, with finite works only, Me,
Who am Infinite Good, and therefore demand on your part
infinite desire ; you should therefore place your foundation
in the destruction and extinction of your own will, and, by
thus submitting your will to Mine, you will send up before
Me a sweet, hungry and infinite desire, seeking My honour
and the salvation of souls. And thus will you eat at the
table of holy desire, which desire is never scandalised
either in itself or in its neighbour, but rejoices in every
thing, and draws fruit from all the divers and varied cir
cumstances in which I place the soul. The poor wretches
who do not follow this sweet doctrine and smooth road,
given them by My Truth, do not so. They do, indeed, the
contrary, judging according to their blindness and infirm
vision. Wherefore they become raving lunatics, and deprive
themselves both of the advantages of the world and of
heaven. And, in this life, as I have said to thee in another
place, they taste the earnest of Hell."

CHAPTER CV.

A brief repetition of the above-mentioned things ; with an addition
concerning the reprehension of the neighbour.

" I HAVE now told thee, dearest daughter, and explained
to thee, in satisfaction of thy desire, that which thou didst
ask Me in what way, namely, thou shouldst judge thy
neighbour, so as not to be deluded by the Devil, or
by thy own low point of view ; and I have told thee that
thou shouldst reprove in general, and not in particular,
unless thou shouldst have had an express revelation from

224 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

Me ; and that, in that case, thou shouldest, with humility
blame thyself and thy neighbour at the same time. I have
also told thee, and I repeat it, that, in no case whatever, is it
lawful for thee to judge any creature, either in general, or
in the particular case of one of My servants, as to whether
he be well or badly disposed. And I have given the
reason why thou canst not judge, and why, if thou didst
do so, thou wouldst be deceived in thy judgment. I
have also told thee, that you should all have compassion
on each other and leave judgment to Me; and I have given
thee the doctrine, and the principal foundation for thee to
give to those who should come to thee for counsel, and
who should wish to come out of the darkness of mortal
sin, and follow the path of virtue, and knowledge of them
selves and of My Goodness to them, and the destruction
and extinction of their own will, so that it may rebel
in nothing against Me. And I have told thee to give them
penance as a means and not as an end, and not to
each one equally, but according to their capacity and con
dition ; to one less, to another more, shalt thou give these
external means. But, because I said to thee that it was not
lawful for thee to reprove another, except in general (which
is the truth), I do not wish thee to think that, when thou
actually seest an open sin, thou canst not privately correct
the sinner ; this thou canst do, and if he is so obstinate
that he will not correct himself, thou canst manifest his sin
to two or three others ; and if this does not succeed, thou
mayest manifest it to the mystical body of the holy
Church. What I have said to thee is that thou canst not
lawfully make to thyself any judgment in thy mind, what
ever thou mayest appear to see with thine eyes, nor change
thy opinions quickly, for, unless thou seest the truth of the
matter by My express revelation, thou shouldest not make
use of the truth, except in the way I have shown thee.
This is the surer way of preventing the Devil deluding
thee under the cloak of neighbourly love. I have now,
dearest daughter, completed My explanations on this matter,
which thou must preserve, and so increase the perfection
of thy soul."

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 225

CHAPTER CVI.

Of the means of knowing when visitations and mental visions
come from God or the Devil.

" I WILL now speak to thee of that which thou didst ask
Me, concerning the sign which I give the soul, that she
may know whether the visitations which she receives, either
by visions or other consolations, are from Me or not.
The sign, I told thee, was the joy which remained in the
soul after the visitation, and the hunger for virtue, and
specially the anointing of true humility, and the enflaming
of the soul with divine charity. But since thou askedst
me, whether this joy may in any way deceive thee, in
order that thou mayest attain to the surer proof, the sign,
namely, of virtue which cannot be deceived, I will tell thee
a delusion which may occur, by knowing which, thou canst
determine if the joy is in My Truth or not. Delusion may
occur in this way. Thou must know that, when a rational
creature possesses the object which she loves, and has
longed to have, the more she loves the object, the less
she sees it, and the less she endeavours to prudently
examine it, so absorbed is she in the delight and consola
tion she has received from it. So do those who take great
delight in mental consolations, and seek for visions, placing
their end rather in the delight of these consolations than in
Me, like those of whom I spoke to thee who were still
imperfect. Such as these may be deluded in their joy,
besides other ways of delusion of which I spoke to thee
distinctly in another place. How are they deluded ? I
will tell thee. Having conceived a great love of consolation,
when they receive it either by vision or in some other way,
they feel joy, for they see that they possess that which they
loved and desired. Often, however, their consolation might
come from the Devil, and they would feel that joy of which
I spoke to thee, saying that when this visitation of the mind
came from the Devil, the mind was at first joyful, but after
wards remained in grief and an uneasy conscience, and

p

226 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

empty of a desire for virtue. I now say to thee that
the soul may often have that joy, and on account of it
abandon prayer. If this joy exist without a burning
desire for virtue, and be not anointed with humility, and
on fire with My Divine Love, that visitation, or vision,
or consolation, which that soul may have received, comes
from the Devil, and not from Me, in spite of the sign
of joy. But, inasmuch as the joy is not united with the
desire for virtue, thou canst clearly see that it is drawn from
the love which that soul had for her own mental consola
tion, wherefore she rejoices, seeing that she possesses that
which she desired, it being the nature of love of every kind
to feel joy in the possession of the beloved object. So that
thou canst not trust in joy alone, even if the joy last all the
time during which thou hast the consolation, and the more
so, that love, ignorant and walking imprudently through
its very joy, cannot discern the wile of the Devil ; but, if
the soul walk prudently, she will examine whether or no
her joy be united to love of virtue. In this way will she
know whether the visitation, which she has received, comes
from Me or the Devil. This is that sign of which I spoke
to thee, with which I showed thee how thou couldst recognise
if thy joy was a sign that thou hadst been visited by Me,
namely, if it were united with virtue, as I have truly told
thee, for this sign proves to thee what is delusion, and what
is not ; that is to say, it distinguishes between the joy which
thou receivest from Me in truth, and the joy which comes
from thy spiritual self-love, from love that is, of thy own
consolation. The consolation which comes from Me comes
with joy and the love of virtue, and that which comes from
the Devil brings joy only, and when thou examinest thy
soul thou art in the same condition of virtue as thou wert
before, for this joy proceeds from love of one s own consola
tion, as has been said.

" But know that not every one is deluded by this joy, but
only those imperfect ones who seek for delight and consola
tion, and look rather to the gift than to Me, the Giver. Those,
on the other hand, who in purity, and with regard for them
selves, enflamed with love for Me alone, Who gives, and not

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 227

for the gift, which they love for My sake, and not for their
own consolation, cannot be deluded by this joy. They at
once know by this sign when the Devil has wanted, through
his deceitfulness, to transform himself into an angel of light
and manifest himself to their mind, namely that he arrives
suddenly with great joy, but the joy soon passes away, and
they find themselves left in darkness. They thus thoroughly
recognise his deceitfulness by their prudence, because they
are not passionately in love with (or desirous of) mental con
solation. Then they humiliate themselves with true self-know
ledge, despising all consolation, and embracing and holding
fast the doctrine of My Truth. Then the Devil, confused,
wheels about, and never comes back again to them in that
form. But those who are lovers of their own consolation,
will ofttimes receive the Devil, but they will find out the
deception in the way I told you, that is, in the feeling of
the joy without the virtue, in that they will not find them
selves issuing from the experience with humility, true charity,
and hunger for My honour, Who am eternal God.

"And thus is My goodness manifested in that I have pro
vided against the deception of the perfect ones, and the
imperfect ones, in whatever condition they be, because none
of you can be deceived if you will preserve the light of the
intellect that I have given you with the pupil of the most
holy faith, and not let it be overshadowed by the Devil, and
veiled with self-love, " because if you do not take it away
from yourself, no one else will take it from you."

CHAPTER CVII.

How God is the Fulfiller of the holy desires of His servants ; and
how they please Him much who ask and knock at the door of
His Truth with perseverance.

" Now I have told thee, dearest daughter, and fully explained
to thee, illuminating the eye of thy intellect, about the

228 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

deceptions the Devil might practise upon thee, and I have
satisfied thy desire in that which thou askest Me, because I
do not despise the desire of My servants. Also I not only
give to all who ask, but I invite you all to ask, and he dis
pleases Me much, who does not knock, in truth, at the door
of the wisdom of My only-begotten Son, following His
doctrine, the following of which doctrine is a knocking,
calling to Me, the eternal Father, with the voice of holy
desire, with humble and continual prayers. And I am that
Father Who gives you the bread of grace by means of
this sweet door, My Truth ; and sometimes, to test your
desires and your perseverance, I pretend not to understand
you, but I really understood you well, and give you that state
of mind that you need, because I give you that hunger and
the voice with which you cry to Me, and I, seeing your con
stancy, fulfil your desires when they are ordered and directed
to Me. It was to such asking as this that My Truth invited you,
when He said, Cry out and ye shall be answered, knock and it
shall be opened to you, ask and it shall be given to you. 1 And
so I say to thee that I will that thou shouldest never relax the
desire of asking for My help, neither lower thy voice from cry
ing to Me that I may have mercy on the world ; nor cease
from knocking at the door of My Truth, following in His
Footsteps, and delight thyself in the Cross with Him, eating
the food of souls to the glory and praise of My Name ; and
lament, with anxiety of heart, over the death of the human
generation, that thou seest led to misery so great, that thy
tongue is not sufficient to relate it. On account of this
lamenting and crying will I have mercy on the world, and it
is this which I demand from My servants, and which will
be a sign to Me, that they love Me in truth, and, as I told
thee, I will not despise their desires."

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 229

CHAPTER CVIII.

How this soul, rendering thanks to God, humiliates herself; then she
prays for the whole world and particularly for the mystical body
of the holy Church, and for her spiritual children, and for the
two fathers of her soul ; and, after these things, she asks to hear
something about the defects of the ministers of the holy Church.

THEN that soul, as if, in truth, inebriated, seemed beside
herself, as if the feelings of the body were alienated through
the union of love which she had made with her Creator, and
as if, in elevation of mind, she had gazed into the eternal
truth with the eye of her intellect, and, having recognised the
truth, had become enamoured of it, and said, "Oh ! Supreme
and Eternal Goodness of God, who am I, miserable one, that
Thou, Supreme and Eternal Father, hast manifested to me
Thy truth, and the hidden deceits of the Devil, and the
deceitfulness of personal feeling, so that I, and others in this
life of pilgrimage, may know how to avoid being deceived by
the Devil or ourselves ! What moved thee to do it ? Love,
because thou lovedst me, without my having loved Thee. Oh,
Fire of Love ! Thanks, thanks be to Thee, Eternal Father!
I am imperfect and full of darkness, and Thou, Perfection and
Light, hast shown to me perfection, and the resplendent
way of the doctrine of Thy only-begotten Son. I was
dead, and Thou hast brought me to life. I was sick and
Thou hast given me medicine, and not only the medicine of
the Blood which Thou gavest for the diseased human race in
the person of Thy Son, but also a medicine against a secret
infirmity that I knew not of, in this precept that, in no way,
can I judge any rational creature, and particularly Thy
servants, upon whom ofttimes I, as one blind and sick with
this infirmity, passed judgment under the pretext of Thy
honour and the salvation of souls. Wherefore, I thank
Thee, Supreme and Eternal Good, that, in the manifesting
of Thy truth and the deceitfulness of the Devil, and our
own passions, Thou hast made me know my infirmity.
Wherefore I beseech Thee, through grace and mercy, that,

23<> THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

from to-day henceforward, I may never again wander from
the path of Thy doctrine, given by Thy goodness to me and
to whoever wishes to follow it, because without Thee is
nothing done. To Thee then, Eternal Father, do I have
recourse and flee, and I do not beseech Thee for myself
alone, Father, but for the whole world, and particularly for
the mystical body of the holy Church, that this truth given
to me, miserable one, by Thee, Eternal Truth, may shine
in Thy ministers ; and also I beseech Thee especially
for all those whom Thou hast given me, and whom
Thou hast made one thing with me, and whom I
love with a particular love, because they will be my
refreshment to the glory and praise of Thy Name, when
I see them running on this sweet and straight road,
pure, and dead to their own will and opinion, and without
any passing judgment on their neighbour, or causing him
any scandal or murmuring. And I pray Thee, Sweetest
Love, that not one of them may be taken from me by the
hand of the infernal Devil, so that at last they may arrive
at Thee, their End, Eternal Father.

"Also I make another petition to Thee for my two fathers,
the supports whom Thou hast placed on the earth to guard
and instruct me, miserable infirm one, from the beginning
of my conversion until now, that Thou unite them, and of
two bodies make one soul, and that they attend to nothing
else than to complete in themselves, and in the mysteries
that Thou hast placed in their hands, the glory and praise
of Thy Name, and the salvation of souls, and that I,
an unworthy and miserable slave, and no daughter, may
behave to them with due reverence and holy fear, for love
of Thee, in a way that will be to Thine honour, and their
peace and quiet, and to the edification of the neighbour. I
now know for certain, Eternal Truth, that Thou wilt not
despise the desire of the petitions that I have made to Thee,
because I know, from seeing what it has pleased Thee to
manifest, and still more from proof, that Thou art the
Acceptor, of holy desires. I, Thy unworthy servant, will
strive, according as Thou wilt give me grace, to observe Thy
commandments and Thy doctrine. Now, O Eternal Father,

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 231

I remember a word which thou didst say to me in speaking
of the ministers of the holy Church, to the effect that Thou
wouldst speak to me more distinctly, in some other place,
of the sins which they commit to-day ; wherefore if it
should please Thy goodness to tell me aught of this matter,
I will gladly hear it, so as to have material for increasing
my grief, compassion, and anxious desire for their salvation ;
for I remember that Thou didst say, that, on account of the
endurance and tears, the grief, and sweat and prayers of
Thy servants, Thou wouldst reform the holy Church, and
comfort her with good and holy pastors. I ask Thee this
in order that these sentiments may increase in me."

CHAPTER CIX.

How God renders this soul attentive to prayer, replying to one
of the above mentioned petitions.

THEN the Eternal God, turning the eye of His mercy upon
this soul, not despising her desire, but granting her requests,
proceeded to satisfy the last petition, which she had made
concerning His promise, saying, " Oh ! best beloved and
dearest daughter, I will fulfil thy desire in this request, in
order that, on thy side, thou mayest not sin through ignorance
or negligence ; for a fault of thine would be more serious
and worthy of graver reproof now than before, because
thou hast learnt more of My truth ; wherefore apply thyself
attentively to pray for all rational creatures, for the mystical
body of the holy Church, and for those friends whom I
have given thee, whom thou lovestwith particular love, and
be careful not to be negligent in giving them the benefit of
thy prayers, and the example of thy life, and the teaching
of thy words, reproving vice and encouraging virtue accord
ing to thy power.

" Concerning the supports which I have given thee, of
whom thou didst speak to Me, know that thou art, in truth,
a means by which they may each receive, according to their

232 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

needs and fitness. And as I, thy Creator, grant thee the
opportunity, for without Me thou canst do nothing, I will
fulfil thy desires, but do not thou fail, or they either, in
your hope in Me. My Providence will never fail you, and
every man, if he be humble, shall receive that which he is fit
to receive ; and every minister that which I have given him
to administer, each in his own way, according to what he
has received and will receive from My goodness."

CHAPTER CX.

Of the dignity of the priest ; and of the Sacrament of the Body of
Christ ; and of worthy and unworthy communicants.

" Now I will reply to that which thou didst ask Me con
cerning the ministers of the holy Church, and, in order that
thou mayest the better understand the truth, open the eye of
thy intellect, and look at their excellence and the dignity in
which I have placed them. And, since one thing is better
known by means of contrast with its contrary, I will show
thee the dignity of those who use virtuously the treasure I
have placed in their hands ; and, in this way, thou wilt the
better see the misery of those who to-day are suckled at
the breast of My Spouse." Then this soul obediently con
templated the truth, in which she saw virtue resplendent in
those who truly taste it. Then said the Eternal God : " I
will first, dearest daughter, speak to thee of the dignity of
priests, having placed them where they are through My
Goodness, over and above the general love which I have
had to My creatures, creating you in My image and
similitude and re-creating you all to the life of grace in
the Blood of My only-begotten Son, whence you have
arrived at such excellence, through the union which I
made of My Deity with human nature ; so that in this
you have greater dignity and excellence than the angels,
for I took your human nature and not that of the angels.
Wherefore, as I have said to you, I, God, have become

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 233

man, and man has become God by the union of My Divine
Nature with your human nature. This greatness is given
in general to all rational creatures, but, among these I
have especially chosen My ministers for the sake of your
salvation, so that, through them, the Blood of the humble
and immaculate Lamb, My only-begotten Son, may be
administered to you. To them have I given the Sun to
administer, giving them the light of science and the heat
of Divine Love, united together in the colour of the Body
and Blood of My Son, whose Body is a Sun, because He
is one thing with Me, the True Sun, in such a way that
He cannot be separated or divided from Me, as in the case
of the natural sun, in which heat and light cannot be
separated, so perfect is their union; for, the sun, never leaving
its orbit, lights the whole world and warms whoever wishes
to be warmed by it, and is not defiled by any impurity on
which it shines, for its light and heat and colour are
united.

" So this Word, My Son, with His most sweet Blood,
is one Sun, all God and all man, because He is one thing
with Me and I with Him. My power is not separated
from His wisdom, nor the fiery heat of the Holy Spirit
from Me, the Father, or from Him, the Son ; for He is one
thing with us, the Holy Spirit proceeding from the Father
and the Son, and We together forming one and the same
Sun; that is to say, I, the Eternal God, am that Sun
whence have proceeded the Son and the Holy Spirit. To
the Holy Spirit is attributed fire and to the Son wisdom,
by which wisdom My ministers receive the light of grace,
so that they may administer this light to others, with
gratitude for the benefits received from Me, the Eternal
Father, following the doctrine of the Eternal Wisdom, My
only-begotten Son. This is that Light, which has the colour
of your humanity, colour and light being closely united.
Thus was the light of My Divinity united to the colour of
your humanity, which colour shone brightly when it became
perfect through its union with the Divine nature, and, by
this means of the Incarnate Word mixed with the Light of
My Divine nature and the fiery heat of the Holy Spirit,

234 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

have ye received the Light. Whom have I entrusted with
its administration ?

" My ministers in the mystical body of the holy Church,
so that you may have life, receiving His Body in food and
His Blood in drink. I have said to thee that this Body is,
as it were, a Sun. Wherefore, you cannot receive the Body
without the Blood, or the Blood or the Body without the
soul of the Incarnate Word ; nor the Soul, nor the Body,
without the Divinity of Me, the Eternal God, because none
of these can be separated from each other, as I said to thee
in another place that the Divine nature never left the
human nature, either by death or from any other cause.
So that you receive the whole Divine Essence in that most
Sweet Sacrament concealed under the whiteness of the bread ;
for as the sun cannot be divided into light, heat, and colour,
the whole of God and the whole of man cannot be separated
under the white mantle of the host ; for even if the host
should be divided into a million particles (if it were possible)
in each particle should I be present, whole God and whole
Man. When you break a mirror the reflection to be seen
in it is not broken ; similarly, when the host is divided
God and man are not divided, but remain in each particle.
Nor is the Sacrament diminished in itself, except as far as
may be in the following example.

" If thou hast a light, and the whole world should come to
thee in order to take light from it the light itself does not
diminish and yet each person has it all. It is true that
every one participates more or less in this light, according
to the substance into which each one receives the fire. I will
develop this metaphor further that thou mayest the better
understand Me. Suppose that there are many who bring
their candles, one weighing an ounce, others two or six
ounces, or a pound, or even more, and light them in the
flame, in each candle, whether large or small, is the whole
light, that is to say, the heat, the colour, and the flame ;
nevertheless thou wouldst judge that he whose candle weighs
an ounce has less of the light than he whose candle weighs
a pound. Now the same thing happens to those who
receive this Sacrament. Each one carries his own candle,

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 235.

that is the holy desire, with which he receives this Sacra
ment, which of itself is without light, and lights it by receiving
this Sacrament. I say without light, because of yourselves
you can do nothing, though I have given you the material,,
with which you can receive this light and feed it. The
material is love, for through love I created you, and without
love you cannot live.

" Your being, given to you through love, has received the
right disposition in holy baptism, which you receive
in virtue of the Blood of the Word, for, in no other way,
could you participate in this light ; you would be like a
candle with no wick inside it, which cannot burn or receive
light, if you have not received in your souls the wick which
catches this Divine Flame, that is to say, the Holy Faith,
which you receive, by grace, in baptism, united with the
disposition of your soul created by Me, so fitted for love,
that, without love, which is her very food, she cannot live.
Where does the soul united in this way obtain light ? At
the fire of My Divine love, loving and fearing Me, and
following the Doctrine of My Truth. It is true that the
soul becomes more or less lighted according to the material
which it brings to the fire ; for although you all have one
and the same material, in that you are all created to My
image and similitude, and, being Christians, possess the light
of holy baptism, each of you may grow in love and virtue
by the help of My grace, as may please you. Not that you
change the form of what I have given you, but that you
increase your strength in love, and your free-will, by using
it while you have time, for when time is past you can no
longer do so. So that you can increase in love, as has been
said, coming with love to receive this Sweet and Glorious
Light, Which I have given you as Food for your service,
through My ministers, and you receive this Light according
to the love and fiery desire with which you approach It.

4< The Light Itself you receive entire, as I have said (in the
example of those, who in spite of the difference in weight of
their candles, all receive the entire light), and not divided,
because It cannot be divided, as has been said, either on
account of any imperfection of yours who receive, or of the

236 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

minister ; but you personally participate in this light, that
is in the grace which you receive in this Sacrament,
according to the holy desire with which you dispose your
selves to receive It. He who should go to this sweet
Sacrament in the guilt of mortal sin, will receive no grace
therefrom, though he actually receive the whole of God
and the whole of Man. Dost thou know the condition of
the soul who receives unworthily ? She is like a candle on
which water has fallen, which can do nothing but crackle
when brought near the flame, for no sooner has the fire
touched it, than it is extinguished, and nothing remains but
smoke ; so this soul has cast the water of guilt within her
mind upon the candle which she received in holy baptism,
which has drenched the wick of the grace of baptism, and,
not having heated it at the fire of true contrition and con
fession, goes to the table of the altar to receive this Light
with her body, and not with her mind, wherefore the Light,
since the soul is not disposed as she should be for so great
a mystery, does not remain by grace in that soul, but leaves
her, and, in the soul, remains only greater confusion, for her
light is extinguished and her sin increased by her darkness.
Of the Sacrament she feels nothing but the crackling of a
remorseful conscience, not through the defect of the Light
Itself, for that can receive no hurt, but on account of the
water that was in the soul, which impeded her proper
disposition so that she could not receive the Light. See,
therefore, that in no way can this Light, united with its
heat and its colour, be divided, either by the scanty desire
of the soul when she receives the Sacrament, or by any
defect which may be in the soul, or by any defect of him
who administers it, as I told thee of the sun which is not
defiled by shining on anything foul, so the sweet Light of
this Sacrament cannot be defiled, divided, or diminished in
any way, nor can it be detached from its orbit.

"If all the world should receive in communion the Light
and Heat of this Sun, the Word, My only-begotten Son,
would not be separated from Me the True Sun, His
Eternal Father because in His mystical body, the holy
Church, He is administered to whoever will receive Him.

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 237

He remains wholly with Me, and yet you have Him, whole
God and whole man, as I told thee, in the metaphor of the
light, that, if all the world came to take light from it, each
would have it entire, and yet it would remain whole."

CHAPTER CXI

How the bodily sentiments are all deceived in the aforesaid
Sacrament, but not those of the soul, therefore it is, with the
latter, that one must see, taste, and touch It ; and of a beautiful
vision this soul had upon this subject.

" OH, dearest daughter, open well the eye of thy intellect
and gaze into the abyss of My love, for there is no rational
creature whose heart would not melt for love in contem
plating and considering, among the other benefits she receives
from Me, the special Gift that she receives in the Sacra
ment.

"And with what eye, dearest daughter, shouldest thou
and others look at this mystery, and how shouldest thou
touch it ? Not only with the bodily sight and touch, be
cause in this Sacrament all bodily perceptions fail.

" The eye can only see, and the hand can only touch, the
white substance of the bread, and the taste can only taste
the savour of the bread, so that the grosser bodily senti
ments are deceived ; but the soul cannot be deceived in
her sentiments unless she wish to be that is, unless she
let the light of the most holy faith be taken away from her
by infidelity.

" How is this Sacrament to be truly tasted, seen, and
touched ? With the sentiment of the soul. With what
eye is It to be seen ? With the eye of the intellect if
within it is the pupil of the most holy faith. This eye
sees in that whiteness whole God and whole man, the Divine
nature united with the human nature, the Body, the Soul,
and the Blood of Christ, the Soul united to the Body, the
Body and the Soul united with My Divine nature, not

238 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

detached from Me, as I revealed to thee, if thou remember
well, almost in the beginning of thy life ; and not so much
.at first through the eye of thy intellect as through thy
bodily eye, although the light being so great thy bodily
eyes lost their vision, and only the sight of the eye of thy
intellect remained. I showed it to thee for thine enlighten
ment in the battle that the Devil had been waging against
thee in this Sacrament ; and to make thee increase in love
in the light of the most holy faith.

" Thou knowest that thou wentest one morning to church
at sun-rise to hear Mass, having beforehand been tormented
by the Devil, and thou placedst thyself upright at the Altar
of the Crucifix, while the priest went to the Altar of Mary ;
thou stoodst there to consider thy sin, fearing to have
offended Me through the vexation which the Devil had been
causing thee, and to consider My love, which had made
thee worthy to hear Mass, seeing that thou didst deem
thyself unworthy to enter into My holy temple. When
the minister came to consecrate, thou raisedst thine eyes
above his head while he was saying the words of consecra
tion, and I manifested Myself to thee, and thou didst see
issue from My breast a light, like a ray from the sun,
which proceeds from the circle of the sun without being
separated from it, out of the midst of which light came a
dove and hovered over the host, in virtue of the words which
the minister was saying. But sight remained alone in the
eye of thy intellect, because thy bodily sight was not strong
enough to stand the light, and in that place thou didst see
and taste the Abyss of the Trinity, whole God and whole
man concealed and veiled in that whiteness that thou sawedst
in the bread ; and thou perceivedst that the seeing of the
Light and the presence of the Word, which thou sawedst
intellectually in the whiteness of the bread, did not prevent
thee seeing at the same time the actual whiteness of the
bread, the one vision did not prevent the other vision, that
is to say, the sight of the God- Man revealed in the bread
did not prevent the sight of the bread, for neither its white
ness, nor its touch, nor its savour were taken away. This
was shown thee by My goodness, as I have said to thee.

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 239

The eye of the intellect had the true vision, using the pupil
of the holy faith, for this eye should be thy principal
means of vision, inasmuch as it cannot be deceived ; where
fore, with it thou shouldest look on this Sacrament. How
dost thou touch It ? By the hand of love. With this
hand alone canst thou touch that which the eye of the
intellect has recognised in this Sacrament. The soul touches
Me with the hand of love, as if to certify to herself that
which she has seen and known through faith. How
dost thou taste It ? With the palate of holy desire. The
corporal palate tastes only the savour of the bread ; but
the palate of the soul, which is holy desire, tastes God and
Man. See, therefore, that the perceptions of the body are
deluded, but not those of the soul, for she is illuminated
and assured in her own perceptions, for she touches with
the hand of love that which the eye of her intellect has
seen with the pupil of holy faith ; and with her palate
that is, with fiery desire she tastes My Burning Charity,
My Ineffable Love, with Which I have made her worthy to
receive the tremendous mystery of this Sacrament and the
Grace which is contained therein. See, therefore, that thou
shouldst receive and look on this Sacrament, not only with
bodily perceptions, but rather with thy spiritual perceptions,
disposing thy soul in the way that has been said, to receive,
and taste, and see this Sacrament."

CHAPTER CXII.

Of the excellent state of the soul who receives the sacrament
in grace.

4t SEE, dearest daughter, in what an excellent state is the
soul who receives, as she should, this Bread of Life, this Food
of the Angels. By receiving this Sacrament she dwells in
Me and I in her, as the fish in the sea, and the sea in the
fish thus do I dwell in the soul, and the soul in Me the

240 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

Sea Pacific. In that soul grace dwells, for, since she has
received this Bread of Life in a state of grace, My grace
remains in her, after the accidents of bread have been
consumed. I leave you the imprint of grace, as does a seal,
which, when lifted from the hot wax upon which it has been
impressed, leaves behind its imprint, so the virtue of this
Sacrament remains in the soul, that is to say, the heat of
My Divine charity, and the clemency of the Holy Spirit.
There also remains to you the wisdom of My only-be
gotten Son, by which the eye of your intellect has been
illuminated to see and to know the doctrine of My Truth,
and, together with this wisdom, you participate in My strength
and power, which strengthen the soul against her sensual
self-love, against the Devil, and against the world. Thou
seest then that the imprint remains, when the seal has been
taken away, that is, when the material accidents of the bread,
having been consumed, this True Sun has returned to Its
Centre, not that it was ever really separated from It, but
constantly united to Me. The Abyss of My loving desire
for your salvation has given you, through my dispensation
and Divine Providence, coming to the help of your needs,
the sweet Truth as Food in this life, where you are pilgrims
and travellers, so that you may have refreshment, and not
forget the benefit of the Blood. See then how straitly you
are constrained and obliged to render Me love, because I
love you so much, and, being the Supreme and Eternal
Goodness, deserve youi love."

CHAPTER CXIII.

How the things which have been said about the excellence of this-
Sacrament, have been said that we might know better the dignity
of priests ; and how God demands in them greater purity than
in other creatures.

" I HAVE told thee all this, dearest daughter, that thou
mayest the better recognise the dignity to which I have

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 241

called My ministers, so that thy grief at their miseries may
be more intense. If they themselves considered their own
dignity they would not be in the darkness of mortal sin, or
defile the face of their soul. They would not only see
their offences against Me, but also, that, if they gave their
bodies to be burned, they would not repay the tremendous
grace and favour which they have received, inasmuch as no
greater dignity exists in this life. They are My anointed
ones, and I call them My Christs, because I have given
them the office of administering Me to you, and have placed
them like fragrant flowers in the mystical body of the holy
Church. The angel himself has no such dignity, for I have
given it to those men whom I have chosen for My ministers,
and whom I have appointed as earthly angels in this life.
In all souls I demand purity and charity, that they should
love Me and their neighbour, helping him by the ministra
tion of prayer, as I said to thee in another place. But far
more do I demand purity in My ministers, and love towards
Me, and towards their fellow-creatures, administering to
them the Body and Blood of My only-begotten Son, with
the fire of charity, and a hunger for the salvation of souls,
for the glory and honour of My Name. Even as these
ministers require cleanness in the chalice in which this
Sacrifice is made, even so do I require the purity and
cleanness of their heart and soul and mind. And I wish
their body to be preserved, as the instrument of the soul in
perfect charity ; and I do not wish them to feed upon and
wallow in the mire of filth, or to be inflated by pride,
seeking great prelacies, or to be cruel to themselves or
to their fellow creatures, because they cannot use cruelty
to themselves without being cruel to their fellow creatures ;
for, if by sin they are cruel to themselves, they are cruel to
the souls of their neighbours, in that they do not give them
an example of life, nor care to draw them out of the hands
of the Devil, nor to administer to them the Body and Blood
of My only-begotten Son, and Me the True Light, as I told
thee, and the other Sacraments of the holy Church. So
that, in being cruel to themselves, they are cruel to others."

242 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

CHAPTER CXIV.

How the Sacraments should not be sold or bought, and how they
who receive them should succour the ministers in temporal things,
which the ministers should dispense in three divisions.

" I WISH My ministers to be liberal and not miserly, or,
through cupidity and avarice, to sell the grace of the
Holy Spirit. I do not desire this, and they ought not to
do it; for even as they, by gift and out of the broadness
of My love have received of My goodness, so ought they,
by gift and in broadness of heart, through affection of love
for My honour and the salvation of souls, to give charitably
to every rational creature who humbly asks for it ; and
they should take nothing as its price, because they have not
bought it, but have received it freely from Me to administer
to you. But they can and should take alms, and you,
who receive the Sacraments, ought on your side, when you
can, to give alms ; for the ministers should be supported by
you in temporal things, and succoured by you in their
necessity, and you should be supported and fed by them in
grace and spiritual gifts that is, in the holy Sacraments
that I have placed in the holy Church for them to ad
minister to you for your salvation. And I make known to
you that, without any comparison, they give more to you
than you to them, because comparison cannot be made
between the transitory and finite things with which you
help them, and Me God, Who am Infinite, and Whom
through My Divine providence and Divine charity they have
the right of administering to you. And not only is it so in
this mystery, but also in any other spiritual graces which
are administered to you by any creature, whether through
prayer or through some other means. All your temporal sub
stance would never equal,by anycomparison,what you receive
spiritually. Now I tell you that the substance which they
receive from you they are bound to distribute in three ways
that is, to make of it three parts one for their living,
the other for the poor, and the other should be spent on

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 243

the objects which are necessary for the services of the
Church, and in no other way. Doing otherwise they offend
Me."

CHAPTER CXV.

Of the dignity of priests ; and how the virtue of the Sacraments is
not diminished by the faults either of the minister or of the
recipient; And how God does not wish seculars to occupy
themselves in correcting the clergy.

" THUS did the sweet and glorious ministers of whom I
spoke to thee, when I wished thee to see their excellence,
over and above the dignity which I had given them in
making them My Christs, and who, exercising this dignity
in virtue, are clothed in the Light of the Sweet and Glorious
Sun, Whom I gave into their hands to administer.

"Look at sweet Gregory and Sylvester, and others, their
predecessors or successors who have followed the footsteps
of My Chief Pontiff, Peter, to whom I gave the keys of the
heavenly kingdom of My Truth, saying : Peter, I give thee
the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, and what thou loosest
on earth shall be loosed in Heaven, and what thou bindest
on earth shall be bound in Heaven? Now that I have
shown thee, dearest daughter, the excellence of their virtue,
I will more fully prove to thee the dignity to which I
have elected My ministers. They have the key of the
Blood of My only-begotten Son, Which unlocks the door of
eternal life, which for a long time has remained locked
through the sin of Adam.

" For that reason I gave you My Truth ; that is to say,
My Word My only-begotten Son, Who, enduring His
passion and death, by His death destroyed yours, making
you a bath of His Blood. His Blood and Death, in virtue
of the union between the Divine and human natures, un
locked the door of eternal life. To whom did He leave
the keys of this Blood ? To the glorious Apostle Peter,

244 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

and to all his successors who are or shall be till the Day of
Judgment, all of them having the same authority which
Peter had, which is not diminished by any defect of their
own, nor is any defect caused thereby to the Blood or to
any of the Sacraments, for, as I have already told
thee, this Sun does not become defiled by any impurity
on which It shines, and does not lose Its light amid the
darkness of mortal sin, whether it be in the minister
or in the recipient, such sin merely diminishing grace
and increasing sin in the unworthy minister or recipient.
Thus the Christ on earth holds the keys of the Blood, as,
if thou remember, I manifested to thee in this parable,
showing thee what reverence seculars ought to have for
My ministers, whether they be good or evil, and how much
irreverence towards them displeases Me. Thou rememberest
that I represented the mystical body of the holy Church to
thee under the form of a cellar, in which cellar was the Blood
of My only-begotten Son, Which gives efficacy to all the Sacra
ments. At the door of the cellar was the Christ on earth,
who was charged with the administration of the Blood, and
with the choice of co-administrators who should help him
to administer It throughout the whole body of Christian
people. He who was accepted and anointed by him,
became the minister of the Blood, and no others. From
him issues the whole order of clerks, each of whom is placed
in his particular office to administer the glorious Blood ;
and, as the Christ on earth has chosen them for his helpers,
the right of correcting their defects belong to him alone,
and so I wish it to be. For I have withdrawn them from
service and subjection to temporal masters, on account of
the excellence and authority which I have given them.
Civil law has got nothing to do with their punishment; that
right is placed in him whose office it is to govern under the
Divine law, for these are My anointed ones, and inasmuch
as I have said in the Scripture : Do not touch My Christsj
no greater ruin can come upon man than to constitute him
self their punisher."

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 245

CHAPTER CXVI.

How God considers persecutions directed against the holy Church
or her ministers as directed against Himself ; and how this sin is
graver than any other.

" IF thou shouldst ask Me how it is that the sin of persecu
tion of the holy Church is graver than any other, and
why it is that the sins of clerks should not diminish the
reverence paid to them, I should reply, Because all reverence
which is paid to them is not paid to them, but to Me, in
virtue of the Blood Which I have given them to administer.
For if it were not so, you would owe them no more
reverence than to other men of the world ; but, on account
of their ministry, you are obliged to do them reverence, and
come to them, not for their own sakes, but on account of
the power which I have given them, if you wish to receive
the Sacraments of the holy Church ; for, should you neglect
receiving them when you could you would die in a state ot
damnation. So the reverence paid to them is paid to Me
and to the glorious Blood, It being one thing with Me, by
the union of the Divine nature with the human. And, as
the reverence so is the irreverence, as to which I have said
to thee that reverence should not be paid to them for their
own sakes, but on account of the authority which I have
given them ; wherefore, no man should offend them, because
in offending them he offends Me and not them, for I have
forbidden it, and have said that I do not wish My Christs
to be touched by their hands. And on this account no one
can excuse himself, saying : I do not rebel against the
holy Church, but only against the sins of evil pastors.
Such a man, lifting his mind against his leader and blinded
by self-love, does not see the truth, though indeed he really
sees it well enough, but pretends not to, in order to deaden
the sting of conscience. For he sees that, in truth, he is
persecuting the Blood, and not Its servants. The insult is
done to Me, just as the reverence was My due. Wherefore
every damage, insult, rudeness, contempt, and blame done

246 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

to them is directed against Me ; that is to say, that I
consider as done to Me whatever is done to them, for I
have said and repeat that I do not wish My Christs to be
touched by them, it being My business to punish them, and
not theirs. Such wicked men only prove their irreverence
towards the Blood, and that they do not hold dear the
Treasure Which I have given them for the salvation and life
of their souls. More I could not give them than the whole
of God and the whole of Man for their Food, as I have
said. But, inasmuch as they did not reverence Me and My
servants, they have diminished their dignity, and persecuted
them, seeing in them many sins and defects, as in another
place I will narrate to thee. If they had, in truth, reverenced
Me in them, they would not have risen against them for any
personal defect, for no such defect can diminish the virtue
of this Sacrament. Wherefore they should not diminish
their reverence, and doing so they offend Me. This sin
is graver than all others for many reasons, of which I will
tell thee the three principal ones. One is that what they do
to My servants they do to Me ; another is because in this
way they disobey My Commandment, since I have forbidden
My servants to be touched, so they despise the virtue of
the Blood Which they received in holy baptism, disobediently
doing that which I have forbidden them, and become rebels
against the Blood, having lost their reverence for It, and
rising against It with terrible persecutions. They are like
putrid members cut off from the mystical body of the holy
Church ; wherefore, if they remain obstinate in this rebellion
and irreverence, dying in the same, they receive eternal
damnation. It is true that, when they are at their last
extremity, if they humble themselves and recognise their
fault, and wish to reconcile themselves to their leader, even
if they cannot actually do so, they receive mercy. They
should not, however, put off the time of conversion, because
they are not sure of having it. The third reason why their
sin is graver than all others is because it is committed with
deliberate malice, and because they know that they cannot
act in such a way with a good conscience, and must offend
Me if they do so. Wherefore, their offence is a perverse

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 247

pride without any corporal pleasure, though, on account of
it, the body as well as the soul is consumed. The soul is
consumed by the privation of grace, and gnawed by the
worm of conscience ; the temporal substance is consumed
in the service of the Devil, and their bodies die like those
of the animals. So that this sin is committed directly
against Me, without any colour of their own pleasure or
profit, but solely through malice and the smoke of pride,
which pride is born of sensual self-love and of that perverse
fear which Pilate had, when, for fear of losing his post, he
slew Christ, My only-begotten Son. These men do the
same. All other sins are committed through simplicity, or
ignorance, or malice, in that the sinner knows the evil
which he does, but on account of the disordinate delight,
or some pleasure or profit which he finds in the sin, commits
it, and, committing it, offends his own soul, and Me, and his
neighbour. Me he offends, because he does not pay glory
and praise to My Name ; his neighbour, because he does not
give him the light of love ; but he does not personally
attack Me, but offends himself, which offence displeases Me,
on account of the loss which he incurs. But this sin is
aimed directly at Me without any medium. Other sins
are committed with some sort of colour or excuse, and by
means of some one else ; for, as I have told thee, both sins
and virtues are exercised by means of the neighbour ; and,
since sin deprives the sinner of Me, and of his neighbour
for his neighbour is offended by the lack of love involved
in the sin they offend Me by these indirect means. But,
in this case, they offend Me directly, for among all My
rational creatures I have chosen these My ministers, who
are My anointed ones, as I have said to thee, ministers of
the Body and Blood of My only-begotten Son, who, standing
at the altar in the person of Christ, My Son, consecrate
your human flesh with My Divine nature.

" Their offence is therefore done to the Word, and being
done to Him is done to Me, for He and I are one and the
same. These poor wretches persecute the Blood and
deprive themselves of Its fruit. This is why grave sin is
committed against Me, and not against My ministers, for I

248 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

do not attribute to them either the honour or the persecu
tion which they receive for My sake, for they are both
directed to Me, that is to say, to the glorious Blood of My
Son, Who is one and the same with Me. Wherefore I say
to thee, that, if all the other sins of these men were in one
scale of the balance, and this one sin in the other, the
scale containing their irreverence would outweigh the other,
in the manner that has been said. I have manifested this
to thee, so that thou mightest have greater matter of grief
at the offence done to Me and the damnation of these poor
wretches, so that, through your grief and sorrow, and that
of My other servants, the darkness that has come on these
putrid members, cut off from the mystical body of the holy
Church, should be dissolved by My goodness. But I find
hardly any who grieve over the persecution directed against
this glorious and precious Blood ; though I find many who
shoot at Me continually with the arrows of disordinate love
and servile fear, and, blinded by their self-esteem, consider
that to be an honour which is a disgrace ; and that to be a
disgrace which is in truth, an honour ; that is to say, to
humble themselves to their leader. On account of these
sins they have risen against the Blood to persecute It."

CHAPTER CXVII.

Here God speaks against those, who persecute the holy Church
and His ministers, in various ways.

" I HAVE said that they persecute Me, and it is true that
they do so, as far as they can, in intention. But I, person
ally, can receive no hurt or be in any way injured by them,
for I am like a stone which, if it be thrown, does not itself
receive the blow, but returns against him who threw it.
In this way the blows of their offences, which exhale a
stench towards Me, cannot really injure Me, but their arrow
returns to them poisoned with their guilt, which deprives them,
in this life, of grace, and loses for them the fruit of the Blood.

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 249

And at last, if they have not corrected themselves with holy
confession and contrition 01 heart, they arrive at eternal
damnation, being cut off from Me and being bound to the
Devil, with whom they have leagued together. For, as
soon as the soul is deprived of grace, she is bound to sin,
with a bond of hatred against virtue and love of vice ; with
this bond they have placed themselves by their free will in
the hands of the Devil, and are bound to him, for in no
other way could they be bound. With the same bond are
the persecutors of the Blood bound one to another, and
bound to the Devil as his members, having taken on them
selves the function of devils. The devils strive to pervert
My creatures and draw them from grace, and lead them
into the guilt of mortal sin, in order to infect My creatures
with the same evil which they have in themselves. Such
men as these do the same, neither more nor less ; for, like
members of the Devil, they go about subverting the sons of
the spouse of Christ, My only-begotten Son, and loosening
them from the bond of charity, binding them, when deprived
of the fruit of the Blood, with the miserable bond with
which they themselves are bound. This bond is fastened
with the knot of pride, and self-esteem, and servile fear;
for it is through fear of losing their temporal possessions
that they lose their grace, and fall into the greatest confu
sion into which they can come, being deprived of the
dignity of the Blood. This bond is sealed with the seal of
darkness ; for they do not know into what miseries they
have fallen themselves, and make others to fall. Where
fore, in their ignorance, they do not correct themselves, but,
like blind men, take glory in the destruction of their soul
and body. Let it grieve thee inestimably, dearest daughter,
to see such blindness and misery in those who have been
washed in the Blood like thee, and nourished and brought
up on the same Blood, at the breast of the holy Church,
and, having become rebels through fear, and, under colour
of correcting the defects of My ministers, whom I have
forbidden them to touch, have left their mother s breast.
Thou and My other servants should be in terror when you
hear this miserable bond spoken of. No tongue can tell

250 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

how abominable it is to Me, and it is the worse, because
they wish to cloak and hide their own defects with the
mantle of the defects of My ministers, and they do not
consider that no such mantle can repair their sins to My
eyes, which see everything. They might, indeed, well
enough hide them from the eyes of My creatures, but not
from Me, from Whom nothing can be hidden ; for I loved
you and knew you before you were in existence. And this
is one of the reasons why the wretched men of the world
do not correct themselves, because they do not really
believe, with the light of a lively faith, that I see them.
For if they really believed that I saw their sins, and that
every sin would be punished, as every virtue rewarded, as
I said to thee in another place, they would not do so much
evil, but would correct themselves of that which they have
done, and would humbly implore My mercy, and I would
give it them through the Blood of My Son. But they are
obstinate and reprobated by My goodness for their sins,
and fallen into the final ruin of privation of light, and have
become blind persecutors of the Blood, which persecution
can find no excuse in any sin which may appear in the
ministers of the Blood."

CHAPTER CXVIII.

A brief repetition of the above things, concerning the holy
Church and her ministers.

" I HAVE told thee something, dearest daughter, of the
reverence which should be paid to My anointed ones, in
spite of their defects ; such reverence being paid to them,
not on their own account, but because of the authority
which I have given them. And, inasmuch as the mystery
of the Sacrament cannot be diminished or divided by their
sins, the reverence due to the Treasure of the Blood, and
not to them personally, should not be diminished thereby.
" As for those who do the contrary, I have shown thee,

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 251

to a small extent, how grave and displeasing to Me is their
irreverence and persecution of the Blood, and I have shown
thee the league which they have made against Me, bound
to the service of the Devil, in order that thy grief might
increase. This sin of which I have spoken to thee in detail
is that of persecution of the holy Church, and of the
Christian religion in general, by sinners who despise the
Blood, depriving themselves of the light of grace. This
sin is serious, and displeases Me, as I have narrated to thee
in detail."

CHAPTER CXIX.

Of the excellence, virtues, and holy works of virtuous and holy
ministers ; and how such are like the sun.

" I WILL now speak to thee, in order to give a little refresh
ment to thy soul, and to mitigate thy grief at the darkness
of these miserable subjects, of the holy life of some of My
ministers, of whom I have spoken to thee, who are like the
sun, for the odour of their virtues mitigates the stench of
the vices of the others, and the light thereof shines in
their darkness. And, by means of this light, wilt thou the
better be able to understand the darkness and sins of My
unworthy ministers. Open then the eye of thy intellect
and gaze at the Sun of Justice, and thou wilt see those
glorious ministers, who, through ministering the Sun, have
become like to It, as I told thee of Peter, the prince of the
Apostles, who received the keys of the kingdom of Heaven.
I say the same of these others, who have administered, in
the garden of the holy Church, the Light, that is to say, the
Body and the Blood of My only-begotten Son, Who is
Himself the undivided Sun, as has been said, and all the
Sacraments of the holy Church, which all give life in virtue
of the Blood. Each one, placed in a different rank, has
administered, according to his state, the grace of the Holy
Spirit. With what have they administered it ? With the

252 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

light of grace, which they have drawn from this True Light.
With light alone ? No ; because the light cannot be separated
from the warmth and colour of grace, wherefore a man
must either have the light, warmth, and colour of grace, or
none at all. A man in mortal sin is deprived of the life of
grace, and he who is in grace has illuminated the eye of
his intellect to know Me, Who gave him both grace and the
virtue which preserves it, and, in that light, he knows the
misery and the reason of sin, that is to say, his own self-
love, on which account he hates it, and thereby receives the
warmth of Divine love into his affection, which follows his
intellect, and he receives the colour of this glorious Light,
following the doctrine of My sweet Truth, by which his
memory is filled with the benefit of the Blood. Thou seest,
therefore, that no one can receive the light without receiving
the warmth and the colour, for they are united together
and are one thing ; wherefore he cannot, as I have said to
thee, have one power of his soul so ordered as to receive
Me, the True Sun, unless all three powers of his soul are
brought together and ordered in My Name. For, as soon as
the eye of the intellect lifts itself with the pupil of faith above
sensual vision in the contemplation of Me, affection follows
it, loving that which the intellect sees and knows, and the
memory is filled with that which the affection loves ; and, as
soon as these powers are thus disposed, the soul participates
in Me, the Sun Who illuminates her with My power, and with
the wisdom of My only-begotten Son, and the fiery
clemency of the Holy Spirit. See, then, that these have
taken on them the condition of the Sun, for, having clothed
themselves, and filled the power of their soul with Me, the
true Sun, they become like Me. The Sun illuminates them
and causes the earth of their souls to germinate with Its
heat. Thus do My sweet ministers, elected and anointed
and placed in the mystical body of the holy Church, in
order to administer Me, the Sun, that is to say, the Body
and Blood of My only-begotten Son, together with the
other Sacraments, which draw their life from this Blood ;
this they do in two ways, actually, in administering the
Sacraments, and spiritually, by shedding forth in the

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 253

mystical body of the holy Church, the light of supernatural
science, together with the colour of an honourable and
holy life, following the doctrine of My Truth, which they
administer in the ardent love with which they cause barren
souls to bear fruit, illuminating them with the light of their
science, and driving away the darkness of their mortal sin
and infidelity, by the example of their holy and regular life,
and reforming the lives of those who live in disorder and
darkness of sin, and in coldness, through the privation of
charity. So thou seest that they are the Sun, because they
have taken the condition of the Sun from Me, the True Sun,
because, through affection of love, they are one thing with
Me, and I with them, as I narrated to thee in another
place, and each one has given light in the holy Church,
according to the position to which I have elected him :
Peter with preaching and doctrine, and in the end with
blood ; Gregory with science, and holy scripture, and with
the mirror of his life ; Sylvester, against the infidels, and
with disputation and proving of the most holy faith, which
he made in word and in deed, receiving virtue from Me.
If thou turnest to Augustine, and to the glorious Thomas
and Jerome, and the others, thou wilt see how much light
they have thrown over this spouse, extirpating error, like
lamps placed upon the candelabra, with true and perfect
humility. And, as if famished for such food, they feed upon
My honour, and the salvation of souls, upon the table of
the most holy Cross. The martyrs, indeed, with blood,
which blood cast up sweet perfume before My countenance ;
and, with the perfume of blood, and of the virtues, and with
the light of science, they brought forth fruit in this spouse
and extended the faith, and, by their means, the light of the
most holy faith was rekindled in the darkened. And
prelates, placed in the position of the prelacy of Christ on
earth, offered Me the sacrifice of justice with holy and
upright lives. The pearl of justice, with true humility, and
most ardent love, shone in them, and in their subjects, with
the light of discretion. In them, principally because they
justly paid Me My due, in rendering glory and praise to My
Name, and, to their own sensuality, hatred and displeasure,

254 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

despising vice and embracing virtue, with love of Me and of
their neighbour. With humility they trampled on pride,
and, with purity of heart and of body, came, like angels, to
the table of the altar, and, with sincerity of mind, celebrated,
burning in the furnace of love. And, because they first had
done justice to themselves, they therefore did justice to
those under them, wishing to see them live virtuously, and
correcting them without any servile fear, because they were
not thinking of themselves, but solely of My honour and
the salvation of souls, like good shepherds, followers of the
Good Shepherd, My Truth, Whom I gave you to lead your
sheep, having willed that He should give His life for you.
These have followed His footsteps, and therefore did they
correct them, and did not let their members become putrid
for want of correcting, but they charitably corrected them
with the unction of benignity, and with the sharpness of
fire, cauterising the wound of sin with reproof and penance,
little or much, according to the graveness of the fault. And,
in order to correct it and to speak the truth, they did not
even fear death. They were true gardeners who, with care
and holy tears, took away the thorns of mortal sins, and
planted plants odoriferous of virtue. Wherefore, those under
them lived in holy, true fear, and grew up like sweet
smelling flowers in the mystic body of the holy Church,
(because they were not deprived of correction, and so were
not guilty of sin), for My gardeners corrected them without
any servile fear, being free from it, and without any sin,
for they balanced exactly the scales of holy justice,
reproving humbly and without human respect. And this
justice was and is that pearl which shines in them, and which
gave peace and light in the minds of the people and caused
holy fear to be with them, and unity of hearts. And I
would that thou know that, more darkness and division have
come into the world amongst seculars and religious and the
clergy and pastors of the holy Church, through the lack of
the light of justice, and the advent of the darkness of
injustice, than from any other causes.

" Neither the civil law, nor the divine law, can be kept in
any degree without holy justice, because he who is not

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 255

corrected, and does not correct others, becomes like a limb
which putrifies, and corrupts the whole body, because the bad
physician, when it had already begun to corrupt, placed
ointment immediately upon it, without having first burnt the
wound. So, were the prelate, or any other lord having sub
jects, on seeing one putrifying from the corruption of mortal
sin, to apply to him the ointment of soft words of en
couragement alone, without reproof, he would never cure
him, but the putrefaction would rather spread to the other
members, who, with him, form one body under the same
pastor. But if he were a physician, good and true to those
souls, as were those glorious pastors of old, he would not
give salving ointment without the fire of reproof. And,
were the member still to remain obstinate in his evil doing,
he would cut him off from the congregation in order that
he corrupt not the other members with the putrefaction of
mortal sin. But they act not so to-day, but, in cases of
evil doing, they even pretend not to see. And knowest
thou wherefore ? The root of self-love is alive in them,
wherefore they bear perverted and servile fear. Because
they fear to lose their position or their temporal goods, or
their prelacy, they do not correct, but act like blind ones, in
that they see not the real way by which their position is to
be kept. If would they only see that it is by holy justice
they would be able to maintain it ; but they do not,
because they are deprived of light. But, thinking to pre
serve their position with injustice, they do not reprove the
faults of those under them ; and they are deluded by their
own sensitive self-love, or by their desire for lordship and
prelacy, and they correct not the faults they should correct
in others, because the same or greater ones are their own.
They feel themselves comprehended in the guilt, and they
therefore lose all ardour and security, and, fettered by servile
fear, they make believe not to see. And, moreover, if they
do see they do not correct, but allow themselves to be bound
over with flattering words and with many presents, and
they themselves find the excuse for the guilty ones not to
be punished. In such as these are fulfilled the words spoken
by My Truth, saying : These are blind and leaders of the

256 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

blind, and if the blind lead the blind, they both fall into the
ditch. 1 My sweet ministers, of whom I spoke to thee, who
have the properties and condition of the sun, did not,
and do not (if there be any now) act so. And they
are truly suns, as I have told thee, because in them is no
darkness of sin, or of ignorance, because they follow the
doctrine of My Truth. They are not tepid, because they
burn in the furnace of My love, and because they are
despisers of the grandeurs, positions, and delights of the
world. They fear not to correct, for he who does not
desire lordship or prelacy will not fear to lose it, and will
reprove manfully, and he whose conscience does not reprove
him of guilt, does not fear.

"And therefore this pearl of justice was not dimmed in My
anointed ones, My Christs (of whom I have narrated to
thee), but was resplendent in them, wherefore they embraced
voluntary poverty, and sought out vileness with profound
humility, and cared not for scorn or villainies, or the
detractions of men, or insult, or opprobrium, or pain, or
torment.

"They were cursed, and they blessed, and, with true
patience, they bore themselves like terrestrial angels, not by
nature, but by their ministry, and the supernatural grace
given to them, of administering the Body and Blood of My
only-begotten Son. And they are truly angels. Because,
as the angel, which I give thee to be thy guardian, ministers
to thee holy and good inspirations, so were these ministers
angels, and were given by My goodness to be guardians,
and therefore had they their eye continually over those
under them, like real guardian angels, inspiring in their
hearts holy and good thoughts, and offering up for them
before Me, sweet and amorous desires with continual prayer,
and the doctrine of words, and with example of life. So
thou seest that they are angels, placed by My burning love,
like lanterns in the mystic body of the holy Church, to be
your guardians, so that ye blind ones may have guides to
direct you into the way of truth, giving you good inspira
tions, with prayers and example of life, and doctrine as I
said. With how much humility did they govern those

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 257

under them, and converse with them ! With how much
hope and lively faith, and therefore with liberality, did they
distribute to the poor the substance of the holy church, not
fearing, or caring if for them and their subjects temporal
substance diminished. And they scarcely observed that
which they were really bound to do, that is, to distribute
the temporal substance to their own necessity being the poor
in the church. They saved nothing, and after their death
there remained no money at all, and there were some even
who, for the sake of the poor, left the church in debt.
This was because through the largeness of their charity,
and of the hope that they had placed in My Providence,
they were without servile fear that aught should diminish
to them, either spiritual or temporal.

"The sign that a creature hopes in Me and not in himself,
is that he does not fear with a servile fear. They who
hope in themselves are the ones who fear, and are afraid of
their own shadow, and doubt lest the sky and earth fade
away before them. With such fears as these, and a
perverted hope in their own small knowledge, they spend
so much miserable solicitude in acquiring and preserving
temporal things, that they turn their back on the spiritual,
caring not for them. But they, miserable, faithless, proud
ones consider not that I alone am He who provides all
things necessary for the soul and the body, and that with the
same measure that My creatures hope in Me, will My
providence be measured to them. The miserable presump
tuous ones do not regard the fact that I am He who is, and
they are they who are not, and that they have received
their being, and every other additional grace, from My
Goodness. And therefore his labour may be reputed to
be in vain, who watches the city if it be not guarded by
Me. All his labour will be vain, if he thinks by his
labour or solicitude to keep it, because I alone keep it. It
is true that I desire you to use your being, and exercise the
graces which I have bestowed upon you, in virtue using the
free-will which I have given you, with the light of reason,
because though I created you without your help I will not
save you without it. I loved you before you were, and

R

258 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

those My beloved ones saw and knew this, and therefore
they loved Me ineffably, and through their love hoped so
greatly in Me that they feared nothing. Sylvester feared
not when he stood before the Emperor Constantine disputing
with those twelve Jews before the whole crowd, but with
lively faith he believed that I being for him, no one could
be against him ; and in the same way the others all lost
their every fear, because they were not alone but were
accompanied, because being in the enjoyment of love, they
were in Me, and from Me they acquired the light of the
wisdom of My only-begotten Son, and from Me they
received the faculty to be strong and powerful against the
princes and tyrants of the world, and from Me they had the
fire of the Holy Spirit, sharing the clemency and burning
love of that Spirit.

" This love was and is the companion of whosoever desires
it, with the light of faith, with hope, with fortitude, true
patience and long perseverance even until death. So thou
seest that because they were not alone but were accompanied
they feared nothing. He only who feels himself to be
alone, and hopes in himself, deprived of the affection of love,
fears, and is afraid of every little thing, because he alone is
without Me Who give supreme security to the soul who
possesses Me through the affection of love. And of this
did those glorious ones, My beloved, have full experience,
for nothing could injure their souls; but they on the contrary
could injure men and the devils, who ofttimes remained
bound by the virtue and power that I had given My
servants over them. This was because I responded to the
love, faith and hope they had placed in Me. Thy tongue
would not be sufficient to relate their virtues, neither the
eye of thy intellect to see the fruit which they receive in
everlasting life, and that all will receive who follow in their
footsteps. They are like precious stones, and as such do
they stand in My presence, because I have received their
labour and poverty and the light which they shed with the
odour of virtues in the mystic body of the holy church.
And in the life eternal I have placed them in the greatest
dignity, and they receive blessing and glory in My sight,

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 259

because they gave the example of an honourable and holy
life, and with light administered the Light of the Body and
Blood of My only-begotten Son, and all the Sacraments.
And these My anointed ones and ministers are peculiarly
beloved by Me, on account of the dignity which I placed in
them, and because this Treasure which I placed in their
hands they did not hide through negligence and ignorance,
but rather recognised it to be from Me, and exercised it
with care and profound humility with true and real virtues ;
and because I, for the salvation of souls, having placed
them in so much excellency they never rested like good
shepherds from putting the sheep into the fold of the holy
church, and even out of love and hunger for souls they
gave themselves to die, to get them out of the hands of the
devil. They made themselves infirm with those who were
infirm, so that they might not be overcome with despair,
and to give them more courage in exposing their infirmity,
they would ofttimes lend countenance to their infirmity and
say, I too, am infirm with thee. They wept with those
who wept, and rejoiced with those who rejoiced ; and thus
sweetly they knew to give every one his nourishment,
preserving the good and rejoicing in their virtues, not being
gnawed by envy, but expanded with the broadness of love
for their neighbours, and those under them. They drew
the imperfect ones out of imperfection, themselves becoming
imperfect and infirm with them, as I told thee, with true
and holy compassion, and correcting them and giving them
penance for the sins they committed they through love
endured their penance together with them. For through
love, they who gave the penance, bore more pain than they
who received it ; and there were even those who actually
performed the penance, and especially when they had seen
that it had appeared particularly difficult to the penitent.
Wherefore by that act the difficulty became changed into
sweetness.

"Oh ! My beloved ones, they made themselves subjects,
being prelates, they made themselves servants, being lords,
they made themselves infirm, being whole, and without
infirmity and the leprosy of mortal sin, being strong they

26o THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

made themselves weak, with the foolish and simple they
showed themselves simple, and with the small insignificant.
And so with love they knew how to be all things to all men,
and to give to each one his nourishment. What caused
them to do thus ? The hunger and desire for My honour
and the salvation of souls which they had conceived in Me.
They ran to feed on it at the table of the holy Cross, not
fleeing from or refusing any labour, but with zeal for souls
and for the good of the holy church and the spread of the
faith, they put themselves in the midst of the thorns of
tribulation, and exposed themselves to every peril with true
patience, offering incense odoriferous with anxious desires,
and humble and continual prayers. With tears and sweat
they anointed the wounds of their neighbour, that is the
wounds of the guilt of mortal sin, which latter were perfectly
cured, the ointment so made, being received in humility."

CHAPTER CXX.

A brief repetition of the preceding chapter ; and of the reverence
which should be paid to priests, whether they are good or bad.

" I HAVE shown thee, dearest daughter, a sample of the
excellence of good priests (for what I have shown thee is
only a sample of what that excellence really is), and I have
told thee of the dignity in which I have placed them,
having elected them for My ministers, on account of which
dignity and authority I do not wish them to be punished
by the hand of seculars on account of any personal defect,
for those who punish them offend Me miserably. But I
wish seculars to hold them in due reverence, not for their
own sakes, as I have said, but for Mine, by reason of the
authority which I have given them. Wherefore this
reverence should never diminish in the case of priests
whose virtue grows weak, any more than in the case of
those virtuous ones of whose goodness I have spoken to
thee ; for all alike have been appointed ministers of the

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 261

Sun that is of the Body and Blood of My Son, and of the
other Sacraments.

"This dignity belongs to good and bad alike all have
the Sun to administer, as has been said, and perfect priests
are themselves in a condition of light, that is to say, they
illuminate and warm their neighbours through their love.
And with this heat they cause virtues to spring up and
bear fruit in the souls of their subjects. I have appointed
them to be in very truth your guardian angels to protect
you ; to inspire your hearts with good thoughts by their
holy prayers, and to teach you My doctrine reflected in the
mirror of their life, and to serve you by administering to
you the holy Sacraments, thus serving you, watching over
you, and inspiring you with good and holy thoughts as
does an angel.

" See then, that besides the dignity to which I have
appointed them, how worthy they are of being loved, when
they also possess the adornment of virtue, as did those of
whom I spoke to thee, which all are bound and obliged to
possess, and in what great reverence you should hold them,
for they are My beloved children and shine each as a sun in
the mystical body of the holy Church by their virtues, for
every virtuous man is worthy of love, and these all the
more by reason of the ministry which I have placed in their
lands. You should love them therefore by reason of the
virtue and dignity of the Sacrament, and by reason of that
very virtue and dignity you should hate the defects of those
who live miserably in sin, but not on that account appoint
yourselves their judges, which I forbid, because they are
My Christs, and you ought to love and reverence the
authority which I have given them. You know well that
if a filthy and badly dressed person brought you a great
treasure from which you obtained life, you would not hate
the bearer, however ragged and filthy he might be, through
love of the treasure and of the lord who sent it to you.
His state would indeed displease you, and you would be
anxious through love of his master that he should be
cleansed from his foulness and properly clothed. This,
then, is your duty according to the demands of charity, and

262 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

thus I wish you to act with regard to such badly ordered
priests, who, themselves filthy and clothed in garments,
ragged with vice through their separation from My love,
bring you great Treasures that is to say, the Sacraments
of the holy church from Which you obtain the life of
grace, receiving Them worthily (in spite of the great defects
there may be in them) through love of Me, the Eternal
God, who send them to you, and through love of that life
of grace which you receive from the great treasure, by
which they administer to you the whole of God and the
whole of Man, that is to say, the Body and Blood of My
Son united to My Divine nature. Their sins indeed should
displease you, and you should hate them, and strive with
love and holy prayer to re-clothe them, washing away their
foulness with your tears that is to say, that you should
offer them before Me with tears and great desire, that I may
re-clothe them in My goodness, with the garment of charity.
Know well that I wish to do them grace, if only they will
dispose themselves to receive it, and you to pray for it ; for
it is not according to My will that they should administer
to you the Sun being themselves in darkness, nor that they
should be stripped of the garment of virtue, foully living in
dishonour ; on the contrary I have given them to you, and
appointed them to be earthly angels and suns, as I have
said. It not being My will that they should be in this
state, ye should pray for them, and not judge them, leaving
their judgment to Me. And I, moved by your prayers, wilf
do them mercy if they will only receive it, but if they do*
not correct their life, their dignity will be the cause of their
ruin. For if they do not accept the breadth of My mercy,
I, the Supreme Judge, shall terribly condemn them at their
last extremity, and they will be sent to the eternal fire."

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 263

CHAPTER CXXI.

Of the sins and evil life of wicked priests and ministers.

" Now listen, dearest daughter, so that thou and My other
servants may have more reason for offering to Me your
humble and continual prayers for them. I will show thee
their iniquitous life ; for in whatever direction thou mayest
look among secular and religious priests, clerics, and prelates,
small and great, young and old, and of every kind, thou
wilt see nothing but offences against Me and the stench of
mortal sin, which they all exhale; which stench, indeed,
hurts me not at all, but themselves grievously. Up to the
present I have told thee of the excellence and virtue of My
good ministers in order to refresh thy soul, and that thou
mightest the better know the misery of these wretches, and
see how grave is the reproof, and how intolerable the
punishment of which they are worthy, even as My beloved
and chosen priests, on account of having virtuously used
the Treasure given to them, are worthy of a greater reward
than other men, and of being placed as pearls in My sight.
So contrariwise these wretches, who shall receive a terrible
punishment.

"Dost thou perceive, dearest daughter, with grief and
bitterness of heart, in what they have placed their principle
and foundation ?

" They have placed it in their own self-love, whence has
grown the tree of pride and the offshoot of indiscretion ;
for indiscreetly do they seize honour and glory for them
selves, seeking great prelacies and ornaments, and delicate
treatment for their bodies. To Me they render abuse and
offence, attributing to themselves that which is not their
own and to Me that which is not Mine. For to Me should
glory be given, and to My Name the praise, and to them
selves should they render hatred of their own sensuality
with true self-knowledge, deeming themselves unworthy of
so great a mystery as they have received from Me. But
these do the contrary, for, inflated with pride, they cannot

264 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

satiate themselves with gnawing the earth of riches and
worldly delights, becoming mean, greedy, and avaricious
towards the poor, from which miserable pride and avarice,
born of their own self-love, they have abandoned the care
of souls. They only apply themselves to take care of
temporal things and abandon My lambs, whom I have placed
in their hands, like sheep without a shepherd, and do not
feed them temporally or spiritually.

" Spiritually, indeed, they administer the Sacraments of the
holy Church, which Sacraments cannot be taken away, or
their virtue lost through their defect ; but they do not feed
you with hearty prayers, with hunger and desire for your
salvation, together with a holy and honourable life. Nor
do they feed their subjects with temporal things, that is to
say, the poor with the substance of the Church, of which I
said to thee that three parts should be made : one for the
priests necessities, another for the poor, and the third for
the uses of the Church. These do the contrary, for not
only do they not give to the poor the substance which they
are obliged to give them, but they even rob their neighbour
with simony and lust money, selling the grace of the Holy
Spirit ; for often are to be found some of them so wicked
as to refuse to give to him who is in need thereof the
Mystery Which I have given them freely, and will only
dispense It to those who fill their hands and persuade them
with many gifts. They love their subjects for what they
can get out of them, and nothing more. Their share of
the Church they spend entirely on their own garments,
loving to go delicately apparelled, not as clerks and religious,
but as lords and courtiers. They take pains to have fine
horses, and many vessels of gold and silver for the adorn
ment of their dwellings, possessing that which cannot be
ultimately retained, with much vanity of heart ; and with
this disordinate vanity their heart swells, and they place
all their desire in food, making of their belly their god,
eating and drinking without restraint, so that they promptly
fall into an impure and lascivious life.

" Woe ! woe to their wretched life ! For they waste
with harlots that which My only-begotten Son, the sweet

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 265

Word, acquired with such pain on the wood of the holy
Cross ; they are devourers of souls bought with the Blood
of Christ, devouring them in their great misery in many
and diverse ways, and with the substance of the poor do
they feed their children. Oh ! temples of the Devil, I have
appointed you to be earthly angels in this life ; and you
are devils, for you have taken the work of devils. These
devils give in return darkness, for what they have received
from their flocks, and administering to them cruel torments,
drag their souls away from grace, with persecutions and
temptations, in order to reduce them to the guilt of mortal
sin, striving to do what they can to this end ; although no
sin can occur unless the tempted soul herself wish it, yet
they do what they can. So these wretches are not worthy
of being called My ministers ; they are incarnate devils, for
by their sin have they conformed themselves to the will of
the Devil, and do his work, at the same time administering
Me, the True Sun, in the darkness of mortal sin, casting the
darkness of their disordinate and criminal life over their
subjects and all other rational creatures. They cause con
fusion and pain in the minds of creatures, who see them
living in disorder ; they are also the cause of confusion of
conscience to those whom they often drag from the state
of grace and the way of truth, and leading them to sin
cause them to go by the way of lies. Not that he who
thus follows them is on that account excused for his sin,
for no one can be obliged to the guilt of mortal sin, either
by invisible devils or by these visible ones ; wherefore, no
one should look at their life or imitate what they do, but
as My Truth admonished you in the holy Gospel you
should rather do what they say that is, you should follow
the doctrine which is given you in the mystical body of
the holy Church, by means of the preachers who go about
as town-criers, proclaiming My Word in the Holy Scripture.
And as for the woes which these wretches deserve, and
their evil life, do not imitate the latter or seek to inflict the
former, for in doing so you will offend Me ; but leave them
their evil life, and take My doctrine, leaving their punish
ment to Me, for I am the sweet Eternal God Who reward

266 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

every virtue and punish every sin. They will not evade
their punishment through the dignity of being My ministers,
but on the contrary if they do not amend they will be
more severely punished than all others, because they have
received more than others. Their sin being so terrible
they deserve the greater punishment. See therefore that
they are in truth devils in the same way as My elect are
earthly angels, inasmuch as they do angels work."

CHAPTER CXXII.

How injustice reigns in the above-mentioned wicked ministers ; and
that particularly in that they do not correct their subjects.

" I HAVE told thee how in My beloved ones there shone the
pearl of justice. Now I will tell thee how these miserable
wretches wear injustice on their breast as a buckle, which
injustice both proceeds from, and is clasped with their own
self-love, through which they commit injustice against their
own souls and against Me, in the darkness of their in
discretion.

" Me they deprive of glory, and themselves of honour and
a holy life, having neither desire for the salvation of souls
nor hunger for virtue. For this reason they act unjustly
towards their subjects and their neighbour, and do not
correct their vices ; rather they are blind and do not know
them, and allow their subjects to sleep and lie quiet in their
infirmities, from their disordinate fear of offending creatures.
But they do not observe that in thus wishing to please
creatures, they in reality displease them, and Me, your
Creator, as well. Sometimes indeed they do correct their
neighbour, in order to cloak themselves in some rag of
justice. But they do not go to a great man who is living
in great and open sin, for they are afraid if they do that he
will interfere with their own state and life, but they turn
on some insignificant person, for they see that he can do
them no harm. Thus is injustice committed through

A TREATISE OF PRA 267

miserable self-love, which has poisoned the whole world ,
and the mystical body of the holy Church, and through
which the garden of My Spouse has run to seed and given
birth to putrid flowers, which garden was properly cultivated
at the time when the true labourers were there, that is to
say, My holy ministers, and was adorned with many fragrant
flowers, for the subjects led virtuous, honourable and holy
lives, through the examples of their good pastors. To-day
it is not so, but rather the contrary, for through wicked
pastors the subjects have also become wicked. My Spouse
is full of the various thorns of many sins, not that she can
in herself be infected through the stench of sin, for the
virtue of the Sacraments can receive no harm, but those
who feed at the breast of this Spouse are infected by the
stench in their souls, losing the dignity in which I have
placed them, though that dignity is not diminished in itself,
but only with regard to them.

" Wherefore through their sins the Blood is held of no
account, for seculars lose the due reverence which they
ought to pay to them for the Blood s sake ; not that they
ought to do so, and their fault, even if I forgive them, is
none the less on account of the sins of their pastors, who
are wretched mirrors of sin, in that office in which I have
placed them in order to be mirrors of virtue."

CHAPTER CXXIII.

Of many other defects of the said ministers ; and in particular of
their frequenting taverns and gambling and harlotry.

" WHENCE comes the stench that so infects their souls ?
From their own sensuality, which sensuality and self-
love have they enthroned as the mistress of their soul,
who has become sensuality s handmaid, whereas I had
made her free with the Blood of My Son. I speak of the
general manumission when the whole human race was
freed from the servitude and lordship of the Devil. Every

268 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

rational creature received this grace but, over and above it,
I set free My anointed ones from the servitude of the
world, and appointed them to serve Me, the eternal God,
alone, and to administer the Sacraments of the holy Church,
and so free have I made them, that I do not wish any
temporal lord to be their judge. Dost thou know, dearest
daughter, how they repay Me for so great a benefit ?
They repay Me in this way by continually persecuting Me
with such diverse and terrible sins that thy tongue could
not narrate, and thou wouldest faint at hearing them.
Certain things, however, I will tell thee of them besides
that which I have already said, in order to give thee matter
for weeping and compassion. They ought to remain at
the table of the Cross with holy desire, feeding on the food
of souls for My honour, and although every rational creature
should do so, much more ought they whom I have chosen
in order to administer to you the Body and Blood of Christ
crucified, My only- begotten Son, and to give you the
example by their labours, of a good and holy life, and to
feed on the food of your souls, following My Truth with
great and holy desire. But they have chosen for their
table the public tavern, and there, openly cursing and per
juring themselves, full of many miserable sins, like men
blinded and without the light of reason, have become
animals through their sins, and live lasciviously in word
and deed. They do not know if there be any Divine office,
and if sometimes they say it, they do so with their tongue
only, their heart being far from Me. They are also rogues
and cheats, and having played for their soul, and lost it
to the Devil, they stake the goods of the Church, and
the temporal substance which they receive by virtue of the
blood, cheating and gambling it away. Wherefore the
poor do not receive their due, and the Church remains
unfurnished and deprived of the necessary ornaments ; for
these men, having become temples of the Devil, take no
further care of My Temple. But those ornaments
which they ought to place in the church out of reverence of
the Blood, they place in their own houses ; and what is
worse, they do this as bridegrooms adorning their spouses,

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 269,

for these incarnate demons adorn with church property
their she-devils, with whom they live shamelessly in iniquity
and impurity, sending them about or keeping them with
them, at their own pleasure ; so much so that these
wretched demons, even when they are celebrating at the
altar, are not the least disturbed if their wretched she-devil
should come up with the rest of the people to make her
offering, leading their children by the hand. Oh ! demons,
and more than demons ! if only your iniquities were more
concealed from the eyes of your subjects, doing them in
secret, you would indeed offend Me and hurt yourselves,
but at least you would not do the harm you now do to your
neighbour, laying bare your criminal life before his eyes, sa
that your example gives him no reason to leave his own.
sins, but rather causes him to fall into similar and greater
ones than you fall into yourselves. Is this the purity that
I require from My minister, when he comes to celebrate at
My altar ? What purity is this that he brings, who rises
in the morning with his mind defiled, and his body corrupted
with impure mortal sin, and proceeds to celebrate ? Oh t
tabernacle of the Devil, where are thy matins sung devoutly
in solemn choir ? Where is thy continual and holy prayer ?
Where are thy night watches, during which thou disposest
thyself for the holy ministry which thou hast to perform
in the morning, meditating on thy self-knowledge, and
deeming thyself unworthy of so great a mystery, and on thy
knowledge of Me, who have made thee worthy, not through
thy own merits, but have chosen thee to be My minister,,
through My goodness, so that thou mayest administer Me
to My other creatures ? "

CHAPTER CXXIV.

How among the said ministers reigns unnatural sin ; and of a
beautiful vision which this soul had on the subject.

" I WISH thee to know, dearest daughter, that I require in
this Sacrament from you and from them as great purity as

270 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

it is possible for man to have in this life. On your side
you ought to endeavour to acquire it continually. You should
think that were it possible that the angelic nature should
be purified, such purification would be necessary with regard
to this mystery, but this is not possible, for angels need no
purification, since the poison of sin cannot infect them. I
say this to thee in order that thou mayest see how great a
purity I require from you and from them in this Sacrament,
and particularly from them. But they act in a contrary
way, for they come full of impurity to this mystery, and not
only of that impurity to which, through the fragility of
your weak nature, you are all naturally inclined (although
reason when free-will permits, can quiet the rebellion of
nature), but these wretches not only do not bridle this
fragility, but do worse, committing that accursed sin against
nature, and as blind and fools with the light of their intellect
darkened, they do not know the stench and misery in which
they are. It is not only that this sin stinks before Me,
Who am the Supreme and Eternal Truth, it does indeed
displease Me so much and I hold it in such abomination
that for it alone I buried five cities by a Divine judgment,
My Divine justice being no longer able to endure it. This
sin not only displeases Me as I have said, but also the
devils whom these wretches have made their masters. Not
that the evil displeases them because they like anything
good, but because their nature was originally angelic, and
their angelic nature causes them to loathe the sight of the
actual commission of this enormous sin. They truly enough
hurl the arrow poisoned with the venom of concupiscence,
but when their victim proceeds to the actual commission of
the sin, they depart for the reason and in the manner that
I have said. Thou rememberest that I manifested to thee
before the plague how displeasing this sin was to Me, and
how deeply the world was corrupted by it ; so I lifted thee
with holy desire and elevation of mind above thyself, and
showed thee the whole world and, as it were, the nations
thereof, and thou sawest this terrible sin and the devils
fleeing as I have told thee, and thou rememberest that so
great was the pain that thou didst receive, and the stench

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 271

of this sin, that thou didst seem to thyself to see no refuge
on this side of death, in which thou and My other servants
could hide so as not to be attacked by this leprosy. Thou
didst see that thou couldest not remain among men, for
neither small nor great, nor old nor young, nor clerics nor
religious, nor prelates, nor lords, nor subjects, were un-
contaminated in body or mind by this curse.

11 1 showed thee this in general but not of individuals. If
indeed there may be any of My servants preserved among the
wicked from its infection on account of their virtue, I retain
My just wrath and do not command the rocks to roll down
on them, nor the earth to swallow them up, nor the animals
to devour them, nor the devils to carry them off body and
soul ; on the contrary, I seek for ways and methods for
doing them mercy, in order that they may correct their
life. Wherefore I place in their midst My servants who
are healthy and not leprous, so that they may pray to
Me for them. Sometimes I show them these miserable
sins so that they may be more careful in seeking for the
salvation of sinners, offering them to Me with greater com
passion and sorrow for their defects and the offence done
to Me, interceding with Me for them, as I did to thee in
the way which thou knowest ; and if thou rememberest
well when I caused thee to feel a whiff of this stench, thou
didst almost faint, and didst say to Me, Oh! Eternal
Father ! have mercy on me, and on Thy creatures ; either
separate my soul from my body (for it does not seem to me
that I can survive) or refresh me by showing me where I
and Thy other servants can repose, so that this leprosy
may not destroy or injure the purity of our souls and
bodies.

" I replied to thee, turning towards thee with the eye of
My kindness, and I repeat now Let your repose, My
daughter, be to render glory and praise to My Name, and to
offer before Me the incense of continual prayer for these
poor wretches who are in so miserable a state, having
become worthy of the Divine vengeance for their sins. Let
your place of refuge be Christ crucified, My only-begotten
Son ; dwell and hide yourselves in the cavern of His Side,

272 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

where you will taste through love for his humanity My
Divine nature. In that open Heart you will find love for
Me and for your neighbour, for it was for the honour of
Me, the Eternal Father, and to fulfil the obedience which I
have laid on you for your salvation, that He ran to the
shameful death of the Holy Cross. Seeing and tasting this
love you will follow His doctrine, feeding at the table of
the Holy Cross that is, enduring through love and true
patience your neighbour, and all labours, torments and
pains from whatever quarter they come, and in this way
you will flee and escape the leprosy. This was the method
which I gave thee and others, but in spite of all this the
feeling of the stench did not leave thy soul, nor the dark
ness the eye of thy intellect. But My Providence provided
for this, for at the moment when thou didst receive in
communion the Body and Blood of My Son, wholly God
and wholly man, the stench left thee on account of the
fragrance, and the darkness left thee on account of the light
which thou didst receive in this Sacrament, and by an ad
mirable effect of My goodness the odour and taste of the
Blood remained for several days in thy mouth and palate,
as thou knowest.

11 See, therefore, dearest daughter, how abominable this
sin is to Me in every creature. Think, then, how much
more so it is among those whom I have drawn out of the
world and who live in a state of continence, among whom
some have left the world to enter religion, and others are
planted like flowers in the mystical body of the holy
Church among whom are My ministers. Thou couldest
never understand how much more this sin displeases Me in
them than in men of the world and private persons prac
tising continence, of whom I have spoken to you. For
these as lights placed on the candlestick are the admini
strators of Me, the True Sun in the light of virtue and of
their holy and honourable life, and yet they minister in
darkness and are so darkened that they do not understand
My Holy Scripture, which itself is illuminated because
written by My elect with the supernatural help of Me, the
True Light, as I explained to thee in another place. I say

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 273

to thee that on account of their inflated pride and las-
civiousness they see and understand nothing but the shell
of the letter, and that they receive without any profit,
because the taste of their soul is not rightly ordered, but
rather corrupted with self-love and pride, and their reins
are full of impurity; for they desire to fulfil their disordinate
delights, committing their sins publicly and without shame ;
and in addition to all this, so full are they of greed and
avarice that they also commit usury which I have forbidden.
Miserable indeed will those be who commit it."

CHAPTER CXXV.

How, through the above-mentioned defects, subjects do not receive
correction ; and of the defects of religious ; and how, from these
evils not being corrected, many others follow.

" How can these men full of such terrible sins do justice to,
or reprove the sins of their subjects ? They cannot,
because their sins take from them the ardent zeal of holy
justice. And if on some occasion they should do so, their
subjects, who are their companions in sin, can reply, Phy
sician, first heal thyself, and then heal me, then I will take
the medicine which thou givest me. This man is in a
worse state than I am, and yet he blames me. He does
badly who reproves only with words and not with a good
and well-ordered life. Not that he should not, whether he
be good or evil in himself, reprove what is wrong in his
subject, but he does wrong in not also correcting him with
a holy and honourable example. And much worse does he
who does not receive the reproof humbly, however it be
given him, whether by a good or an evil pastor ; he injures
himself and no one else, for he alone will be punished for
his own sins. All these evils, dearest daughter, arrive
because my pastors do not correct their flocks with a good
and holy example. Why do they not ? Because they are
blinded by self-love, in which are founded all their iniquities,

274 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

and subjects, pastors, clerics and religious alike, think of
nothing else, than how they may accomplish their dis-
ordinate delights and pleasures. Alas ! sweet daughter,
where is the obedience of religious who have been placed in
holy religion like angels, and are become worse than devils ?
I have placed them there to announce My word in doctrine
and in truth, and they cry out with the sound of words
alone, and so produce no fruit in the hearts of their hearers.
Their preaching is made rather for the pleasure of men,
and to tickle their ears, than to My honour. Wherefore,
they do not make it their study to preach goodness of life,
but rather to discourse with polished wit. Such as these
do not truly sow My seed, because they take no pains to
root out vices and plant virtues. For not having uprooted
the thorns out of their own garden, they take no pains to
do so out of their neighbour s. All their delight is in
adorning their bodies and their cells, and in hurrying to and
fro about the city. And the same thing happens to them
as to a fish which dies when taken out of water. So die
these religious who leave their cell of which they should
make a heaven, and wander with their useless and dis
honourable life through the wards of the city, seeking out
the houses of their relations, and of other seculars, according
to the pleasure of their wretched subjects and wicked
superiors who hold them in so loose a leash. And since
these miserable pastors do not mind seeing their religious
subject in the hands of she-devils, they often themselves
give him up to them. And sometimes when they know
that they are incarnate devils they will send them to the
monasteries to those who are incarnate she-devils, and thus
one ruins the other with many subtle devices and frauds.
And the principle of their life the Devil conceals under the
cover of devotion, but the fruits of their devotions appear
very soon. First are seen stinking flowers of dishonourable
thoughts, and the leaves of corrupt words, and then they
fulfil their miserable desires, and thou knowest well what
fruits follow, namely, children. And often they carry it so
far that both one and the other, leave their religion, and
become public rogues and harlots.

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 275

" All these and many other evils are caused by worthless
superiors, who have not kept their eye on their subjects,
but have rather let them go loose, and themselves pushed
them into sin, and have made as if they did not see their
miseries, or that their subject was wearied with his cell ;
and so through their double fault the subject dies. Thy
tongue could not narrate with what terrible sins and in
what miserable ways they offend Me. They have become
the arms of the Devil, and with their stench they poison
everything within, that is, in their monastery, and without
among seculars. They are deprived of fraternal charity,
and each one wishes to be the greater. Each one desires
to possess something, acting contrary to obedience and the
vow which they have taken. They have promised to
observe the rule of their order, and they break it, and not
only do they not observe the rule themselves but they fall
like hungry wolves upon the lambs, who wish to observe it,
mocking them and jeering at them. These wretches think
to cover their own sins with the persecutions, mockery and
insult that they deal out to good religious who observe the
rule, but in doing so they expose themselves much more.

" To such a state have come the gardens of holy religious
orders ; for holy they are in themselves, having been founded
by the Holy Spirit, and indeed the order in itself cannot be
spoilt or corrupted through the sins of subject or superior.
Wherefore he who wishes to enter a religious order should
not be astonished at its evil members, but should continue
on his way reposing in the arms of the order, which is not,
and cannot become weak in itself, observing his rule to the
day of his death. I have said to thee that the gardens of
the holy religious orders have come to such a state, through
evil directors and wicked subjects, that they do not keep or
observe their rule in purity but break it, neither observing
their customs or their ceremonies, which they rather ordain
and observe for the pleasure of seculars wishing to please
them in order to cloak their own sins.

"See therefore that they do not fulfil their first vow of
obedience to observe their rule, of which obedience I will
speak to thee in another place. They also take the vow of

276 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

voluntary poverty and of continence. How do they observe
these ? Marvel at the private possessions and sums of
money which each one keeps in private, far from the
universal love with which he should share his temporal and
spiritual substance with his brethren, according to the
commands of charity, and of the rule of his order. But
these men wish only to fatten themselves and their cattle
(one beast feeding the other) while their poor brother dies
of cold and hunger, so that their garments may be comfort
ably lined, and they may have good food. Do not think to
find such a one at the poor table of the refectory ; his
delight is to be where he can fill himself with meat, and
satisfy his greediness. He of course finds it impossible to
observe the third vow of continence, for a full belly makes
an unchaste mind ; being heated and disordered he becomes
lascivious, and so goes from bad to worse. Much harm
also comes from the evil of their possessions, for if they
had nothing to spend, they could not live in such disorder,
and would not have these dangerous friendships, for
not having the wherewithal to make presents, they would
not retain these friendships, which are based on the
love of gifts or some delight or pleasure which the
one person receives from the other, and not on perfect
charity. Oh ! wretched ones, who have come, to such
misery through their sins, having been placed by Me in
such high dignity, they flee from the choir as if it were
poison, and if they are there sing with their voice alone,
their heart being far from Me. As to the table of the altar,
they have made it their habit to approach it without any
proper dispositions, as if it were a table for corporal food.
All these evils and many others of which I will not speak
further to thee, so that thy ears may not itch, follow from
the sinfulness of wicked pastors who do not correct or
punish the sins of their subjects, and are not careful or
zealous that the rule of their order should be observed,
because they themselves do not observe it. They will even
stone, for their great obedience, those who wish to observe
the rule, punishing them for the faults which they have
not committed. And all this they do, because the pearl of

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 277

justice does not shine in them, but rather injustice. Where
fore they unjustly give to him who deserves grace and
kindness, penance and hatred, and to those who are
members of the Devil like themselves they give love,
pleasure, and position, placing in their hands the dignities
of the order. Like blind men they live, and like blind men
they distribute dignities, and govern their subjects. And if
they do not correct themselves of this blindness, they
eventually arrive at the darkness of eternal damnation, and
have to give account to Me, the supreme Judge of the souls
of their subjects. A bad account is all that they can
render, and therefore they receive justly from Me that
which they have deserved."

CHAPTER CXXVI.

How among these wicked ministers reigns the sin of lustfulness.

" I HAVE given thee, dearest daughter, a slight idea of the
life of those who live in holy religion, I have shown thee
how miserably they live in their order, clothed like sheep,
but being in reality rapacious wolves. I now return to
the clerics and ministers of the holy Church, to lament
with thee over their sins, over and above what I have
narrated to thee, founded on three columns of vice, Impurity,
inflated Pride, and Cupidity, through which cupidity they
sell the grace of the Holy Spirit. As I have already told
thee, concerning these three vices, one depends on the other,
and the foundation of these three columns is self-love. As
long as these three columns stand erect and do not fall to
the earth, by force of the love of virtue they are sufficient to
keep the mind firm and obstinate in every other vice, for as I
have told thee, all the vices grow out of self-love, because
from self-love is born the principal vice of pride, and a proud
man is deprived of charity. And from pride he goes on to
impurity and avarice, and so enchains himself with the
Devil s fetters. Now observe, dearest daughter, with what
pride and filthiness they defile their minds and bodies of

278 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

which I have already told thee somewhat. But there is
another thing that I would tell thee, in order that thou
mayest know better the fountain of My mercy, and have
greater compassion on these wretches when thou meetest
them. Some of them are such devils that they not only do
not reverence the sacrament, or hold dear the excellent
state in which I have placed them by My goodness, but as
if out of their minds with guilty love for some creature,
being unable to obtain what they desire, will use devilish
incantations, and will make enchantments with the very
sacrament that is given you for the food of life, in order to
fulfil their wretched and dishonourable thoughts, and make
their will take effect. And those lambs whose souls and
bodies they should feed so carefully they torment in such
ways as these and many others, which I will pass over in
order not to give thee more pain ; for as thou knowest they
cause them to lose their senses, their will being forced to
do that which they do not wish, through the spell which
this incarnate devil has cast over them ; sometimes also their
bodies suffer very gravely through the resistance which
they make to themselves. What is the cause of this, and
many other miserable evils, of which as they knowest them
I need not tell thee ? Their dishonourable and wretched
life. It is the flesh, dearest daughter, that flesh which is
exalted above all the choirs of the angels in My divine
Nature united to your humanity, which these men give up
to such misery. Oh, abominable and wretched men, no
man, but a brute beast, that thou givest thy flesh, anointed
and consecrated to Me, to harlots and worse. From thy
flesh as from that of the whole human race was taken
away the wound which Adam had made by his sin, on the
\vood of the most holy Cross, by the wounded body of
My only begotten Son ! Oh, wretched man, He has done
thee honour, and thou puttest Him to shame. He has
healed thy wounds with His blood, and has further made
thee His minister, and thou persecutest Him with lascivious
and dishonourable sins. The Good Shepherd has washed
His lambs in His blood, and thou defilest those who are
pure, and doest all thou canst to cast them on to the dung-

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 279

hill. It is thy duty to be a mirror of honour, and thou art
a mirror of shame. Thou hast directed all the members of
thy body to work wickedness, and doest the contrary of
that which My truth did for thee. I endured that His eyes
should be veiled, for thy better illumination, and with thy
lascivious eyes thou aimest poisoned arrows at thy own
soul, and the heart of those on whom thou gazest with such
miserable passion.

"I endured that My Son should drink gall and vinegar, and
thou, like a disordered animal, delightest thyself in delicate
viands, making of thy belly thy god ; the foolish language of
dishonour dwells on thy tongue, with which thou art bound
to counsel thy neighbour, to announce My word, and heartily
recite the divine office. Yet I perceive nothing but the
stench of thy profanity, of thy constant blasphemy, for thou
swearest and perjurest thyself like an auctioneer. I endured
that My Son s hands should be bound, in order to set thee
and the whole race of man free from the bonds of sin, and
thy hands which have been anointed and consecrated, and
administer the most holy sacrament, are hideously occupied
in loathsome touches.

"All thy actions, of which thy hands are a true type, are
directed to the service of the Devil. Oh, wretched man,
and I have placed thee in such dignity to serve Me only and
every rational creature ! I was willing that My Son s feet,
should be fastened to the cross, so as to make for thee a
staircase of His body, and that His side should be opened
that thou mightest see the secret of His heart, which I gave
you as a hostelry always open that you might see and taste
the ineffable love which I had for you, finding My divine
nature there united to your humanity. See then that the
blood of which thou art the minister has become a bath to
cleanse your iniquities, and thou of thy heart hast made a
devils temple, and thy love, signified by thy feet, offers to
Me nothing but the stench of thy wickedness and thy insults,
for the feet of thy affection conduct thy soul nowhere but
into devils houses. Thus with the whole of thy body
thou persecutest the body of My Son, doing the contrary of
what He did, and of what thou and all My creatures are

2 8o THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

bound to do. The instruments of thy body give out a
false harmony, for the three powers of thy soul are assembled
in the name of the Devil, while it is thy duty to assemble
them in My name. Thy memory, which should be full of
the benefits which thou hast received from Me, is filled with
dishonour and many other evils. The eye of thy intellect,
which thou shouldest fix with the light of faith on the object
of Christ crucified, My only begotten Son, whose minister thou
art, is rather fixed on the vain and miserable delights,
dignities, and riches of the world. Thy affection, which
should love Me alone without any medium, thou hast
miserably placed in the love of creatures, and of thy own
body, and even thy very cattle thou lovest more than Me.
What proves this to Me ? Thy impatience towards Me,
when I take from thee something thou lovest much, and thy
displeasure toward thy neighbour, for when thou thinkest
to have received some temporal loss from him, hating him
and cursing him, thou leavest My love and his. Oh,
unhappy man that thou art ! Thou art the minister of the
fire of My divine love, and for the sake of thy disordinate
delights, and the trifling loss which may be caused thee by
thy neighbour, thou losest it. This, dearest daughter, is one
of those three miserable columns of which I spoke to thee."

CHAPTER CXXVII.

How avarice reigns among the said ministers, who not only lend
money with usury, but also sell and buy benefices and prelacies ;
and of the evils which have been brought about in Holy Church
by this cupidity.

"Now I will speak to thee of the second column, that is
Avarice, through which what My Son gave, with such
boundless generosity, is kept in narrow limits through
greed. For thou seest His body all open on the wood of
the Cross, pouring forth blood from every part, and that
He has not redeemed you with gold or silver, but with His

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 281

Blood, through the greatness of His love. Not a part only
of the world, but the whole human race, past, present, and
to come, was contained in the satisfaction of that sacrifice.
And to none of you would the Blood be administered, or the
fire of divine love given, had He not first administered and
given them. Which He did by virtue of My divine Nature
perfectly united to your humanity, and of this Blood so
united to Me by the greatness of My love, I have made
thee, oh wretched man, a minister. And so great are thy
avarice and cupidity that that which My Son acquired on
the Cross, namely, the souls redeemed with such love, and
that which My Son has given thee, in making thee a minister
of the Blood, thou, wretched man that thou art, hast confined
in such narrow limits, that in thy avarice thou puttest up
the grace of the Holy Spirit to be sold, obliging thy subjects,
when they beg it of thee, to buy from thee what thou hast
received as a free gift. Thou hast not directed thy appetite
to eat souls for My honour, but to devour money, and so
closely hast thou fastened up that which thou hast received
with such generosity that neither I nor thy neighbour receive
anything from thee by free grace or love. The temporal
substance which thou receivest for the sake of this Blood,
thou acceptest with great generosity, but, wretched miser
that thou art, thou art kind only to thyself, and like a thief
and a robber worthy of eternal death, thou dost embezzle
the property of the poor, and of holy Church, and dost
spend it in luxurious delights with shameless men and
women, and on thy relations and the education of thy
children. Oh ! wretches, where are your real children, the
sweet and royal virtues which you ought to have ? Where
is the fiery charity with which ycu should minister ? Where
is the yearning desire for My honour, and the salvation of
souls ? Where is the heart-breaking sorrow with which
you should see the infernal wolf carrying off your lambs ?
You have none of these things, for in your narrow hearts
there is no love for Me, or for them. You only love your
selves with sensual self-love, with which you poison
yourselves and others. You yourselves are the devils from
hell, who swallow up souls with disordinate love ; nothing

282 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

else gives zest to your appetites. Wherefore it is no cause
of trouble to you, that the invisible devil should carry them
off, you yourselves being visible devils, and the means by
which they are sent to hell. You clothe and fatten your
selves, and the other devils with you, with the property of
the church, and also your fine horses which you keep for
your disordinate delight, and not for any real necessity, for
which indeed you might justly keep them. These are the
proper delights of men of the world, but your joys should
consist in visiting the poor and sick, helping them in their
spiritual and temporal needs ; for this and nothing else have
I made you My ministers and placed you in such dignity.
But having become brute beasts yourselves, you place your
delight in other animals. If you could but see the tor
ments which are prepared for you, if you do not amend,
you would not do so ; you would rather repent of what
you have done in the past, and would reform your present
conduct. See then, dearest daughter, what right I have to
lament over these wretches, and how generously I have
behaved to them, and how meanly they treat Me. Is there
anything more ? Yes ! As 1 have said to thee, there are
some who lend money with usury ; not that they put out
an awning like public usurers, but in many subtle ways
will they sell time to their neighbour in their cupidity, which
thing is in no way lawful. If he should receive some small
present in payment over and above the value of the service
which he has rendered, in lending money to his neighbour
(it being received as part of the value), this also is usury,
and so would be everything else that he should receive in
payment for waiting, as has been said. And I have ap
pointed this wretched man to forbid seculars to do so, but
he himself does the same and more also. How then should
any one go to him for counsel on this matter ? when he is
himself in like fault, and has lost the light of reason, on
which account the counsel which he gives is darkened by
the passion dwelling in his soul. These and many other
sins are born in his narrow greedy heart ; and the words
said by My truth when he entered the temple may be re
peated here. He found men selling and buying, and, driving

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 283

them out with a lash of cords, said : Of my Fathers House,
which is a House of Prayer, ye have made a den of thieves.
Thou seest well, sweetest daughter, that they who act thus
do indeed turn My church, which is a place of prayer, into
a den of robbers. They buy and sell and make merchandise
of the grace of the Holy Spirit. For thou seest that those
who desire prelacies and benefices in the holy Church, buy
them with many presents, offering whatever commodities or
moneys they happen to possess. And the wretched sellers
do not consider whether the buyer is good or evil, but, out
of complaisance and love of the gift which they have received,
strive to place this putrid plant in the garden of the holy
Church ; and to this end these wretches will give a good
account of him to the Christ on earth, so that both of them
use falseness and cheating towards the Christ on earth on
a point on which they should approach him with the whole
simple truth. But if the vicar of My Son should perceive
their sins, he ought to punish them, and from the one take
away his dignity if he do not amend his evil life ; and as for
the other who buys, it would be well that he should be sent
to prison, as his part of the bargain, so that he may be
corrected for his sin, and that others may take warning and
be afraid, so that no one else may imitate him. If the
Christ on earth do this, he does his duty, and if he does
not, his sin will not be unpunished when he has to give an
account before Me of his flock. Believe Me, My daughter,
to-day this is not done, and it is on this account that My
Church has fallen into such sins and abominations. They
do not seek to know, or try to investigate, the good or evil
life of those to whom they give prelacies, and if they do
seek at all to find out, they ask questions of those who are
as bad as themselves, who give nothing but good testimony,
because they themselves have similar defects, and think of
nothing else except dignity of position, and gentility and
riches and polished conversation. Worse than all, it will
sometimes be alleged as a motive to the Consistory that the
person in question is beautiful. What devilish doings !
They should seek the ornament and beauty of virtue, and
they rather look at the beauty of the body. They should

284 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

seek poor and humble persons who avoid prelacies in their
humility, and they choose those who seek them in vanity
and inflated pride. They admire knowledge. Knowledge
in itself is good and perfect when a learned person is also
good, honourable, and humble in life. But if knowledge
be joined with a proud, dishonourable, and wicked life
it is a poison, and the Holy Scripture does not mean
otherwise in its spiritual sense. To one in darkness
it seems to me so, because he has lost the light of
reason and has obscured the eye of his intellect, with
which supernatural light the Holy Scripture was originally
written, and should be understood, as I said to thee, more
clearly in another place. See then that science, good in
itself, is not so in him who does not use it aright ; it rather
lights for him a penal fire if he will not amend his life.
They should therefore rather seek out men of good and
holy life than learned men who live evilly, but they do the
contrary. Those who, besides being good and virtuous, are
great in learning, they despise as fools, and the poor they
avoid, because they have nothing wherewith to pay them.
See, therefore, that in My house, which ought to be a
house of prayer, and where the pearl of justice ought to
shine, together with the light of learning, honour, and
holiness, and the odour of truth, lies abound.

" These men should practise voluntary poverty, and
watch over souls with true solicitude, snatching them from
the hands of devils ; but they, on the contrary, seek for
riches and take such care of temporal things that they have
altogether abandoned spiritual things, and pay no attention
to anything but gambling and laughter and the increase
of their temporal substance. The wretched fools do not
perceive that this is the way to lose it, whereas if they
abounded in virtue, and applied themselves to the care of
spiritual matters as they ought to do, they would abound
in temporalities. And My spouse has had many rebellions
to suffer on account of temporalities, which she ought not
to have had. My servants should leave the dead to bury
the dead, and follow the doctrine of My Truth, and carry
out in themselves My will ; that is to say, they should

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 285

perform the duty I have given them, whereas these men do
the contrary, for they bury these dead and transitory things
with disordinate affection and solicitude, taking from men of
the world their proper occupation. This is displeasing to
Me and hurtful to holy Church ; to worldly men, therefore,
they should leave these things, and let one corpse bury
the other that is to say, let those whose duty it is take
charge of temporal things.

"Why did I say, let the dead bury the dead? The
word dead should here be understood in two ways : in one
way, when he who administers temporal things does so in
the guilt of mortal sin, by the disordinate affection and
care which he has for them. The administration of temporal
affairs may also be called dead, because it belongs to the
body, which is a dead thing, having no life in itself except
in so far as it participates in the life of the soul while the
latter is with the body, and no more. My anointed ones,
therefore, who ought to live like angels, should leave these
dead things to the dead, and should themselves govern
souls who are living, and never die as regards their essence,
administering to them the sacraments and gifts and graces
of the Holy Spirit, and feeding them with the spiritual
food of a good and holy example. In this way My house
would be indeed a house of prayer, abounding in their
graces and virtues. But since they do not act thus, but
the contrary, I can truly say that My house has become a
den of thieves, for they have become merchants with their
avaricious bargaining ; and My church has also become a
cattle shed, for they live in their dishonour like brute
beasts. They have made My church into a stable, and lie
there in the filth of their impurity, for they keep their she-
devils in the church as a bridegroom his spouse in his own
house. See, then, how much evil (and there is much more
beyond comparison with what I have told thee) grows
from these two foetid and stinking columns impurity and
cupidity."

286 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

CHAPTER CXXVIII.

How pride reigns among these ministers, by which they lose their
knowledge ; and how, having lost their knowledge, they fall into
the sin of seeming to consecrate, while they do not really do so.

" I WILL now speak to thee of the third column that of
pride which I have placed last, for it is both last and
first, for all the vices are flavoured with pride, as the
virtues all receive life from charity. Pride is born and
nourished from sensual self-love, of which I said to thee,
that it was the foundation of these three columns, and of
all the evils which are committed by creatures, for he who
loves himself with disordinate love, is deprived of My love.
and not loving Me he offends Me, because he does not
observe the commandment of the law, which is to love Me
above everything, and one s neighbour as one s self. This
is the reason why those who love themselves with a
sensual love neither serve nor love Me, but the world ; for
neither sensual love nor the world have conformity with
Me. There being no conformity between Me and the
world, it must needs be that he who loves and serves the
world with sensual love, should hate Me ; while he who
loves Me truly hates the world. For this reason My Truth
said : No one can serve two masters, for if he serve the one,
he will not content the other See then how self-love
deprives the soul of My love, and clothes it with the vice
of pride, whence through the principle of self-love is borne
every kind of sin. I grieve over this in all My rational
creatures, but particularly in My anointed ones, who ought
to be humble, not only because every one should possess
the virtue of humility, which nourishes charity, but also
because they have become the ministers of the humble and
immaculate Lamb, My only-begotten Son. Are they not
ashamed, and for that matter should not the whole human
race be ashamed, when they see Me, God, humbled to man,
giving you the Word, My Son, in your own flesh ? They
see My Word eagerly humbling Himself to the shameful

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 287

death of the cross, in obedience to My commands. His
head is bent to salute you, His crown is for your adorn
ment, His arms are open to embrace you, His feet are
nailed, so that He may never leave you, and thou, oh !
wretched man, who art the minister of this generosity and
humility, shouldest embrace the cross ; but thou fliest it,
and embracest instead impure women. Thou shouldest
stand firm and stable, following the doctrine of My Word,
nailing thy heart and mind to Him, and thou swayest about
for every cause like a leaf before the wind ; if the wind be
prosperous thou movest with disordinate joy, and if it be
adverse thou movest with impatience, thus drawing forth
the marrow of pride, which is impatience, for whereas the
marrow of charity is patience, the marrow of pride is im
patience, wherefore proud and angry people are disturbed
and scandalised at everything. Pride is so displeasing to
Me, that it fell from Heaven when an angel became proud ;
pride did not rise in Heaven, but fell to the depths of Hell,
wherefore My Truth said that he who should exalt himself
(that is, by pride) should be humbled, and that he who
humbled himself should be exalted. In all people pride is
displeasing to Me, but more so in My ministers, as I have
said to thee, for I have placed them in a humble position
to administer the humble lamb ; while they do just the
contrary. How is such a wretched priest not ashamed to
be proud, when he sees Me humble to you, giving you My
Word, My only begotten Son, to be humbled, through
obedience to Me, to the shameful death of the Cross, of
which Word He has been made the minister. My Son
bows His head, and this wretch lifts his head against Me
and his neighbour, and from the humble lamb that he
should be, he has become a ram with the horns of pride,
butting against every one he meets. Oh ! unhappy man,
thou dost not reflect, thou canst not escape Me. Is this,
then, the duty that I have laid upon thee, to butt against
Me with the horn of thy pride, injuring Me and thy neigh
bour, turning against him with ignorant injuries ? Is this
the mildness with which thou shouldest celebrate the body
and blood of Christ, My Son ? Thou hast become as it

288 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

were a wild animal without fear of Me. Thou devourest
thy neighbour and livest in quarrels and hast become an
acceptor of creatures, accepting those who serve thee and are
useful to thee, or others who please thee, because their life
is the same as thine, whom on the contrary thou shouldest
correct, despising their sins, but thou rather givest them
the example of doing what they do and worse also. If
thou wert good, thou wouldest correct them, but inasmuch
as thou art evil, thy neighbour s defects do not displease
thee, and thou lettest him be ; it is the humble and virtuous
poor whom thou despisest. Thou fleest them and reason
ably, though indeed thou shouldest not do so ; thou avoidest
them because the stench of thy vice cannot endure the
odour of their virtue ; thou deemest thyself insulted if thou
seest My poor ones at thy door ; thou eludest their need
of thy visitation, seeing them die of hunger rather than
help them. And all this is caused by the horns of pride
which will not bend themselves to a little humility. Wlvy
will they not bend ? Because thou hast in no way cast
from thyself self-love which nourishes pride, and therefore
wilt not condescend to administer to the poor either thy
temporal or spiritual substance without receiving something
in return. Oh ! cursed pride, based on self-love, how hast
thou blinded the eye of their intellect, that while they seem
to love themselves and be tender to themselves, they are in
truth cruel, that while they seem to gain, they are losing,
and while they seem to enjoy delights and riches and great
dignities, they are really in the greatest poverty and misery,
for they are deprived of the riches of virtue and have fallen
from the heights of grace into the depths of mortal sin.
They seem to see, but are blind, for they know neither
themselves nor Me. They do not know their own condi
tion nor the dignity in which I have placed them, nor the
fragility of the world, for if they did they would not make
gods of themselves. What has deprived them of know
ledge ? Pride and they have thus become devils, having
been chosen by Me to be earthly angels in this life. And
they fall from the height of heaven into the depths of dark
ness, and their darkness and iniquity are multiplied to such

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 289

an extent that they sometimes fall into a sin of which I
will speak to thee. Some of them are such incarnate devils
that they often appear to consecrate, when they do not in
reality, through fear of My judgment, and to free themselves
from any bridle and fear of sin. Such a man rises in the
morning from impurity, having passed the preceding evening
in disordinate banqueting, he is obliged to satisfy the people,
and considering his own iniquities, sees that he cannot cele
brate with a good conscience ; wherefore he fears My judg
ment, not through hatred of vice, but through self-love.
See, dearest daughter, how blind he is ; he does not have
recourse to contrition, with hatred of sin and a firm purpose
of amendment ; he takes the alternative remedy of not con
secrating. And the blind man does not see that his error
and sin is greater than before, for he makes the congrega
tion commit idolatry, causing them to adore an unconsecrated
host, as if it were the body and blood of Christ, My only-
begotten Son, wholly God and wholly man. No ; the Host
is indeed this when it is consecrated, but otherwise it is
only bread.

" See, now, how great is this abomination, and how great
the patience with which I endure it. But if they do not
correct themselves, every grace of their state will turn to
their perdition. What should the congregation do in order
not to fall into such a snare ? They should pray under
condition in this wise : If this minister has said that which
he ought to say, I truly believe that Thou art Christ the Son
of the living God, given to me as food by the fire of Thine
inestimable charity ; and in memory of Thy most sweet
passion, and the great benefit of the blood which Thou didst
shed with such fire of love to wash away our iniquities.
By this means the blindness of the priest will not bring
them into darkness, causing them to adore one thing for
another, the guilt will attach to the miserable minister alone,
the congregation will only commit a material mistake. Oh !
sweetest daughter, what prevents the earth from swallowing
them up ? What prevents My power from turning them
into immovable statues before all the people for their greater
confusion ? My mercy. And I restrain Myself that is

T

290 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

to say, I conquer and restrain My divine justice by the force
of My mercy. But these obstinate devils neither know nor
see My mercy, but being blinded by pride think that their
office is given them of their due, whereas in reality they
have it only by My free grace."

CHAPTER CXXIX

Of many other sins which are committed through pride and
self-love.

" I HAVE told thee all this in order to give the more matter
for bitter grief and weeping over their blindness in that
they remain in a state of damnation, and that thou mayest
the better know My mercy to place by faith the greatest
security in it, offering them, that is, the ministers of the
Holy Church and all the world, before Me, praying to Me
to have mercy upon them. And the more thou offerest to
Me for them, sorrowful and amorous desires, the more wilt
thou show the love which thou hast for Me. Because that
service which neither thou nor My other servants can fulfil
to Me you must do and show by means of them, and then
will I let Myself be constrained by the desire, prayers, and
tears of My servants ; and I will have mercy on My spouse,
reforming her with good and holy pastors. The good
pastors will reform her, correcting by force those under
them, because nearly all the evils which are done by
the subjects are the fault of bad pastors, because had they
corrected, and had the pearl of justice shone in them with
an honourable and holy life, those evils would not have
been. And dost thou know what results come from these
perverse methods ? It is because the one followed in the
footsteps of the other that the subjects are not obedient,
because when the prelate was subject he was not obedient
to his prelate ; wherefore, he receives from his subject that
which he rendered, and because he was a bad subject he is
a bad pastor.

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 291

" Pride founded in self-love is the cause of this and of
every other sin.

" Ignorant and proud as he was when he was a subject, he
is more so now that he is a prelate. And his ignorance is
so great that, as if he were blind, he will give the office of
priest to a man so unlearned that he can scarcely read and does
not know his office ; and ofttimes, through his ignorance, not
knowing well the sacramental words, he will not consecrate,
and in this way he commits the same sin of not consecrating
that those committed who, through malice, pretended to
consecrate without doing so. They ought to choose men
experienced and founded in virtue, who know and under
stand what they say ; but they do quite the contrary, and
do not seek them for their knowledge and experience, but
for the affection they bear them, and it appears that they
select children and not mature men. And they do not aim
at having men of honourable and holy life who recognise
the dignity to which they are called and the great mystery
that they have to celebrate, but they aim solely at multiply
ing persons, but without regard to virtue.

" They are blind and gatherers together of the blind, and
they see not that I shall require from them an account
for this, and for the other things in the last extremity of
death, and they will see that after they have thus made the
priests dark, and given to them the care of souls that they
knew not how to take care of themselves.

" For how could such as these who do not recognise their
own sin, correct and recognise it in others ? They could not
and would not act against themselves. And the sheep who
have not a shepherd who cares for them easily stray and
are ofttimes torn in pieces and devoured by wolves. And
because the shepherd is a bad one he takes no care to keep
a dog who barks when he sees the wolf coming, but he
keeps such a one as he is himself. And so these ministers
and pastors having no solicitude, and not holding in their
hand the stick of justice wherewith to correct the dog of
conscience, he does not bark, and so they do not with care
reprove themselves, and do not endeavour to bring back to
the way of Truth and Justice those sheep who have strayed

292 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

from it in not observing My commandments, and so prevent
them from being devoured by the infernal wolf. Did this
dog bark, and were their sins laid upon them with the rod
of holy justice, their sheep would be delivered and would
return to the fold. But because he is a shepherd without
a rod, and without the dog of conscience, the sheep perish,
and he does not trouble himself, because the dog of his
conscience is enfeebled, and therefore does not bark, because
he has not been given any food.

" The food that should be given to this dog is the food
of the Lamb, My Son, because in so far as the memory, as
the vessel of the soul, is full of the Blood, so does the con
science feed on it, that is to say, that through the memory
of the Blood the soul is enflamed with hatred of vice and
the love of virtue, the which hatred and love purify the
soul from the stain of mortal sin, and give so much vigour
to the conscience that it watches over the soul so that if
any enemy that is to say sin should wish to enter, not
only the affection but even the mind, like a watch-dog,
warns with its prick at the dictation of reason, and on this
account the man does not commit the sin, for he who
possesses conscience, possesses justice. But such wicked
men as these, not worthy to be called My ministers or even
rational creatures, having become animals through their
sins, are without a watch-dog through their weakness, and
are also without the rod of holy justice, having been made
so timid by their sins that a mere shadow frightens them,
not with holy but with servile fear. They ought to be
ready to die in order to snatch souls from the hand of the
Devil, but on the contrary they place them there themselves,
depriving them of the doctrine of a good and holy life, and
being unable to endure an unkind word for their salvation.
Often the soul of a subject will be entangled in very grave
sins, and he will have to make satisfaction to his neighbour,
and in order not to deprive his family through the dis-
ordinate love which he bears to them, he will not pay his
debt ; his life will be known to a great number of people
and also to his wretched priest, who will have been par
ticularly informed, so that, like the physician which he

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 293

should be, he may heal that soul. The wretched minister
will go to do his duty, and for one rough word said to him,
or for one evil glance directed at him, he will be afraid to
have anything more to do with the affair. And sometimes
a present will be made to him, so that between the bribe
and his servile fear he will leave that soul in the hands of
the devils, and will give him the Sacrament of the Body of
Christ, My only-begotten Son, while he knows all the time
that the communicant is involved in the darkness of mortal sin.
Nevertheless, to please worldly men, and through his disordi-
nate fear and the gift which he has received from them, he has
administered the Sacraments and buried a man with great
honour in the Church, when he should have cast him forth
as an animal and a corrupt member cut off from the body.

"What is the reason of this? Self-love and the horns
of pride. For if he had really loved Me above everything
and that poor wretch s soul, he would have been humble
and without fear would have sought his salvation.

" See, then, what evil follows these three vices which I
have presented to thee under the form of three columns,
from which proceed all other sins pride, avarice and im
purity of mind and body. Thy ears would not be strong
enough to hear how great are the evils which issue from
these columns like wings of the Devil. And through their
pride, dishonour, and greed it sometimes happens (and thou
hast seen such cases) that they will make simple women of
good faith like to themselves, for the poor creatures, fearing
in their minds on account of their defects that they are
possessed by the Devil, come to the wretched priest believing
that he can liberate them, but in reality they are merely
applying to one devil to drive out another. And he in his
greed receives their offering, and like a dishonourable, las
civious brute will say to these poor souls The defect which
you have can only be removed in one way and thus
will he cause them miserably to sin with him. Oh ! demon,
and more than a demon ! For in everything hast thou
become worse than a devil. For there are many devils
who hold this sin in horror, wherefore thou hast become
worse than them, for thou rollest thyself therein with

294 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

delight like the pig in his stye. Oh ! foul animal, is this what
I require of thee by virtue of the blood of which I have made
thee My minister? That instead of driving the Devil out
of souls, thou should put him within them ?

" Dost thou not see that the axe of Divine justice is
already laid to the root of thy tree ? And I say to thee that
thy iniquities shall be punished in due season with usury,
if thou do not punish them with penance and contrition of
heart.

<( No respect will be paid thee, because thou art a priest,
and thou wilt rather be miserably punished and suffer, not
only for thyself but for them also, for thou wilt be more
cruelly punished than others, and perhaps thou wilt then
remember how thou wast wont to drive out the Devil with
the demon of concupiscence.

" And so will it be with that other wretch, who goes to
absolve a fellow-creature in mortal sin, and binds her instead
with another and greater sin, sinning himself afresh with
her. If thou remember, thou hast seen with thine own
eyes such a case, on whom an evil man laid hands. Truly
is such a man without the dog of conscience, indeed, he
stifles others consciences as well as his own.

" I have appointed them to chant and sing psalms during
the night, reciting the divine office, and they occupy them
selves in making charms and invoking the demon of mid
night in order to cause those whom they sinfully love to
come to them through their devilish incantations. It will
seem to them that they come, but they do not really do so.

" Wretched man ! I have appointed to thee to pass the
vigils of the night in prayer and watching, so that on the
morrow thou mayest go rightly disposed to the altar, and
give forth the odour of virtue to the people and not the
stench of vice. Thou hast been placed in an angelic state to
converse by holy meditation with the angels in this life, and
at last with them to enjoy Me ; but thou delightest in being
one of the devils and in conversing with them even before
thy death. The horns of thy pride have pierced the pupil
of holy faith in the eye of thy intellect. Thou hast lost the
light, and therefore seest not in what misery thou art ; and

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 295

thou believest not truly that every sin is punished and every
virtue rewarded, for if thou didst truly believe it thou
wouldest not act so ; thou wouldest not seek or desire such
conversation as the devil s ; rather wouldest thou flee in terror
at the mention of his name ; but because thou obeyest his
will and takest delight in his actions thou seekest him, one
blind man seeking another.

" I would have thee ask the Devil what reward he can give
thee for the service thou payest him. He would reply that
he will give thee the reward that he himself has obtained,
for he can give thee nothing else than the cruel torments of
the fire in which he continually burns since he fell from the
height of heaven in his pride.

" And thou, an earthly angel, fallest by thy pride from the
height of the dignity of the priesthood and from the treasure
of virtue, into the poverty of thy many miseries ; and if
thou do not correct thyself thou wilt fall further into the
depths of hell.

" Thou hast made the world and thyself thy god and thy
lord. Tell the world to answer for thee before Me, the
supreme Judge, with all its delights which thou hast enjoyed
in this life, and tell thy own sensuality to answer for thee
for it is thy sensuality which has caused thee to enjoy the
things of the world when I had placed you in the state of
the priesthood in order to despise both thyself and the world.
They will reply that they cannot help thee ; they will make
mock of thee, saying that success is thy own affair, and
thou wilt remain confounded and guilty before Me and the
world.

" All this loss of thine thou seest not actually, because, as
I have said, the horns of thy pride have blinded thee ; but
thou wilt see it at the extremity of death, when thou canst
seek no remedy in any virtue of thine own, except only in
My mercy if thou hopest in that sweet Blood of which thou
wast made the minister. This hope, indeed, will never be
taken from thee, or from any one, as long as you are still
willing to hope in the Blood and in My mercy, although no
one should be such a fool, nor thou so blind, as to go on
up till the last moment without conversion.

296 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

" Remember that at that last extremity the man who has
lived wickedly is accused by the Devil and the world and
his own fragility, and they do not deceive him or show him
pleasure where is bitterness, or perfection where is imper
fection, or light for darkness, as they used to do during his
life ; they show him things as they are in truth. The
watch-dog of conscience, so enfeebled, begins now to bark so
loudly that he leads the soul, as it were, to despair ; but all
should lay hold with hope on the Blood, in spite of the sins
which they have committed, because My mercy which ye
receive in the Blood is without any comparison greater than
all the sins that are committed in the world.

" But let no one put off his repentance, for it is a terrible
thing for a man to find himself disarmed on the field of
battle in the presence of many enemies."

CHAPTER CXXX.

Of many other sins which the said wretched ministers commit.

" THESE wretches, oh! dearest daughter, of whom I have
spoken to thee, take no thought for themselves, for if they
did they would not come to such a pass, neither they nor
others.

" But they would be like those who live in virtue, and who
would prefer to die rather than sin and defile the face of
their soul, and diminish the dignity in which I have placed
them ; they rather increase the dignity and beauty of their
souls, not that the priestly dignity in itself can increase
through virtue, or diminish through sin, as I have said, but
virtue is an ornament and a dignity with which such men
adorn their souls over and above its natural beauty which it
had from the beginning ; when I created it to My image and
likeness such as these would know the truth of My good
ness and their own beauty and dignity, because pride and
self-love would not have darkened them or deprived them
of the light of reason, and they would love Me, and the

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 297

salvation of souls. But these poor wretches, being entirely
deprived of the light, and heedlessly going from vice to vice,
so that at last they fall into the ditch, have made of the
temple of their soul and of the holy church which should be
a garden a stable full of animals.

" How abominable it is to Me, oh ! dearest daughter, that
their houses, which ought to be the homes of My servants,
and of the poor, and where they should keep the breviary
for their spouse, and the books of Holy Scripture for their
children, and should take delight in teaching their neighbour
and in living a holy life, should have become the homes of
impurity and wicked persons. Their spouse is no breviary
(they treat the breviary as an adulteress) but a miser
able she-devil who lives with them in impurity. Their holy
scriptures are a regiment of children, and with these
children whom they have obtained in such foul misery they
shamelessly take pleasure. The festivals and solemnities
on which they should render praise and glory to My name,
with divine office, offering Me the incense of devout and
humble prayers, they pass at play, and in taking solace
with their she-devils, and they go off with companies of
seculars, hunting beasts and birds as if themselves were
seculars and fine court gentlemen. Oh ! wretched man to
what hast thou come ? Thou shouldst hunt and snare
souls to the glory and praise of My name in the garden of
the holy church, instead of wandering round the woods ;
but because thou hast become an animal, thy soul being
filled with the animals of many mortal sins, hast thou made
thyself a hunter and a snarer of animals ; because the
garden of thy soul has grown wild and full of thorns, thou
takest delight in wandering through desert places hunting
wild beasts. Look on thy sins and be ashamed, oh ! man,
for thou hast matter for shame on every side, but thou art
without shame, having lost My true and holy fear. Shame
less as a harlot, thou art proud of keeping great station in
the world, and having a fine household, and a regiment of
many children, and if thou hast none thou seekest to have
them, so that they may inherit thy property ; but thou art
a robber and a thief, because thou knowest well that thou

298 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

hast nothing to leave them, for thine heirs are the poor of
the holy church.

" Oh ! incarnate devil, deprived of light, thou seekest that
which thou oughtest not to seek, thou praisest and vauntest
thyself of that which should cause thee the greatest confusion
and shame before Me who see the interior of thy heart, and
before creatures. But the horns of thy pride do not let
thee see thy shame. I have placed him, dearest daughter,
on the bridge of My doctrine and My truth to administer
to you pilgrims the sacraments of the holy Church, and he
remains in the river of misery under the Bridge, and
administers My sacraments standing in the river of the
delights and miseries of the world, and he does not see that
the tide of death is gaining on him, and that he travels in
company with his masters the devils whom he has served
and allowed to direct his journey through the river without
any restraint. And if he do not correct himself he will
reach eternal damnation, and such punishment and reproba
tion that thy tongue would not be able to narrate it, and
indeed far more than a secular. For the same fault is
more severely punished in him than in a secular, and with
graver reprobation do his enemies rise up before him on the
bridge of death to accuse him, as I said to thee."

CHAPTER CXXXI.

Of the difference between the death of a just man and that of a
sinner, and first of the death of the just man.

4t HAVING told thee how the world and the devils accuse
these wretches, which is indeed the truth, I wish to speak
to thee in more detail on this point (so that thou mayest
have greater compassion on these poor wretches), telling
thee how different are the struggles of the soul of a just
man to those of a sinner, and how different are their
deaths, and how the peace of the just man s death is

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 299

greater or less according to the perfection of his soul.
For I wish thee to know that all the sufferings which
rational creatures endure depend on their will, because if
their will were in accordance with mine they would endure
no suffering, not that they would have no labours on that
account, but because labours cause no suffering to a will
which gladly endures them, seeing that they are ordained
by My will. Such men as these wage war with the
world, the Devil, and their own sensuality through holy
hatred of themselves. Wherefore when they come to the
point of death, they die peacefully, because they have
vanquished their enemies during their life. The world
cannot accuse such a man, because he saw through its
deceptions and therefore renounced it with all its delights.
His sensual fragility and his body do not accuse him,
because he bound sensuality like a slave with the rein of
reason, macerating his flesh with penance, with watchings,
and humble and continual prayer. The will of his senses
he slew with hatred and dislike of vice, and with love of
virtue. He has entirely lost all tenderness for his body,
which tenderness and love between the soul and the body
makes death seem difficult, and on account of it man
naturally fears death ; but since the virtue of a just and
perfect man transcends nature, extinguishing his natural
fear and overcoming it with holy hatred of himself
and desire of arriving at his last end, his natural tender
ness cannot make war on him, and his conscience remains
in peace ; for during his life his conscience kept a good
guard, warning him when enemies were coming to attack
the city of his soul, like a watch-dog which stands at the
door, and when it sees enemies warns the guards by its
barking, for in this way the dog of conscience warns the sentry
of reason, and the reason together with the free-will know
by the light of the intellect whether the stranger be friend
or enemy. To a friend, that is to say, to virtue and holy
thoughts, he gave his delighted love, receiving and using
these with great solicitude ; to an enemy, that is to say,
to vice and wicked thoughts, he gave hatred and displeasure.
And with the knife of hatred of self, and love of Me, and

300 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

with the light of reason, and the hand of free-will he
struck his enemies ; so that at the point of death his
conscience, having been a faithful guardian, does not gnaw
but remains in peace.

" It is true that a just soul, through humility, and because
at the moment of death she realizes better the value of
time and of the jewels of virtue, reproves herself, seeming
to herself to have used her time but little ; but this is not
an afflictive pain, but rather profitable, for the soul recol
lected in herself, is caused by it to throw herself before
the Blood of the humble and immaculate Lamb My Son.
The just man does not turn his head to admire his past
virtues, because he neither can nor will hope in his own
virtues, but only in the Blood in which he has found mercy ;
and as he lived in the memory of that Blood, so in death he
is inebriated and drowned in the same. How is it that
the devils cannot reprove him of sin ? Because during his
life he conquered their malice with wisdom, yet they come
round him to see if they can acquire anything, and appear
in horrible shapes in order to frighten him with hideous
aspect, and many diverse phantasms, but the poison of sin
not being in his soul, their aspect causes him no terror or
fear, as it would do to another who had lived wickedly in
the world. Wherefore the devils, seeing that the soul has
entered into the Blood with ardent love, cannot endure the
sight, but stand afar off shooting their arrows. But their
war and their shouts cannot hurt that soul, who already is
beginning to taste eternal life, as I said to thee in another
place, for with the eye of the intellect illuminated by the
pupil of the holy faith, she sees Me, the Infinite and Eternal
Good, whom she hopes to obtain by grace, not as her due,
but by virtue of Jesus Christ My Son.

" Wherefore opening the arms of hope and seizing Him
with the hands of love, she seems to enter into His posses
sion before she actually does so, in the way which I have
narrated to thee in another place. Passing suddenly,
drowned in the Blood, by the narrow door of the Word
she reaches Me, the Sea Pacific. For sea and door are
united together. I and the Truth, My only-begotten Son

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 301

being one and the same thing. What joy such a soul
receives who sees herself so sweetly arrived at this pass,
for in Truth she tastes the happiness of the angelic nature !
This joy is received by all those who pass in this sweet
manner, but to a far greater extent by My ministers, of
whom I spoke to thee, who have lived like angels, for in
this life have they lived with greater knowledge, and with
greater hunger for the salvation of souls. I do not speak
only of the light of virtue which all can have in general,
but of the supernatural light which these men possessed
over and above the light of virtuous living, the light, that
is, of holy science, by which science they knew more of My
Truth, and he who knows more loves Me more, and he
who loves Me more receives more. Your reward is
measured according to the measure of your love, and if
thou shouldest ask Me, whether one who has no science
can attain to this love, I should reply, yes it is possible
that he may attain to it, but an individual case does not
make a general law and I always discourse to thee in
general.

" They also receive greater dignity on account of their
priesthood, because they have personally received the office
of eating souls in My honour. For just as every one has
the office of remaining in charity with his neighbour, to
them is given the office of administering the Blood, and of
governing souls.

" Wherefore if they do this solicitously and with love of
virtue they receive, as has been said, more than others.
Oh ! how happy are their souls when they come to the
extremity of death ! For they have been the defenders
and preachers of the faith to their neighbour. This faith
they have incarnated in their very marrow, and with it they
see their place of repose in Me. The hope with which they
have lived, confiding in My providence and losing all trust
in themselves, in that they did not hope in their own know
ledge, and having lost hope in themselves, placed no in
ordinate love in any fellow-creature or in any created
thing ; having lived in voluntary poverty, causes them now
with great delight to lift their confidence towards Me.

302 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

Their heart, which was a vessel of love, inscribed by their
ardent charity with My name, they showed forth with the
example of their good and holy life and by the doctrine of
their words to their neighbour. This heart then arises and
seizes Me, Who am its End, with ineffable love, restoring to
Me the pearl of justice which it always carried before it,
doing justice to all and discreetly rendering to each his
due. Wherefore this man renders to Me justice with true
humility, and renders glory and praise to My Name,
because he refers to Me the grace of having been able to
run his course with a pure and holy conscience, and with
himself he is indignant, deeming himself unworthy of re
ceiving such grace.

" His conscience gives good testimony of him to Me, and
I justly give him the crown of justice, adorned with the
pearls of the virtues that is, of the fruit which love has
drawn from the virtues. Oh, earthly angel ! happy thou
art in that thou hast not been ungrateful for the benefits
received from Me, and hast not been negligent or ignorant,
but hast solicitously opened thine eye by the true light, and
kept it on thy subjects, and hast faithfully and manfully
followed the doctrine of the Good Shepherd, sweet Christ
Jesus, My only begotten Son, wherefore thou art really now
passing through Him, the Door, bathed and drowned in His
blood, with thy troop of lambs of whom thou hast brought
many by thy holy doctrine and example to eternal life, and
hast left many behind thee in a state of grace.

"Oh, dearest daughter! to such as these the vision of
the devils can do no harm, because of the vision which they
have of Me, which they see by faith and hold by love ; the
darkness and the terrible aspect of the demons do not give
them trouble or any fear, because in them is not the poison
of sin. There is no servile fear in them, but holy fear.
Wherefore they do not fear the demon s deception, because
with supernatural light and with the light of Holy Scripture
they know them, so that they do not cause them darkness
or disquietude. So thus they gloriously pass, bathed in the
blood, with hunger for the salvation of souls, all on fire with
love for the neighbour, having passed through the door of

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 303

the word and entered into Me ; and by My goodness each
one is arranged in his place, and to each one is measured of
the affection of love according as he has measured to Me. 1

CHAPTER CXXXII.

Of the death of sinners, and of their pains in the hour of death.

" NOT so excellent, dearest daughter, is the end of these
other poor wretches who are in great misery as I have
related to thee. How terrible and dark is their death !
Because in the moment of death, as I told thee, the Devil
accuses them with great terror and darkness, showing his
face, which thou knowest is so horrible that the creature
would rather choose any pain that can be suffered in this
world than see it ; and so greatly does he freshen the sting
of conscience that it gnaws him horribly. The disordinate
delights and sensuality of which he made lords over his
reason, accuse him miserably, because then he knows the
truth of that which at first he knew not, and his error
brings him to great confusion.

" In his life he lived unfaithfully to Me self-love having
veiled the pupil of the most holy faith wherefore the
Devil torments him with infidelity in order to bring him to
despair. Oh ! how hard for them is this battle, because it
finds them disarmed, without the armour of affection and
charity ; because, as members of the Devil, they have been
deprived of it all. Wherefore they have not the super
natural light, neither the light of science, because they did
not understand it, the horns of their pride not letting them
understand the sweetness of its marrow. Wherefore now
in the great battle they know not what to do. They are
not nourished in hope, because they have not hoped in Me,
neither in the Blood of which I made them ministers, but
in themselves alone, and in the dignities and delights of
the world. And the incarnate wretch did not see that
all was counted to him with interest, and that as a debtor

304 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

he would have to render an account to Me ; now he finds
himself denuded and without any virtue, and on whichever
side he turns he hears nothing but reproaches with great
confusion. His injustice which he practised in his life
accuses him to his conscience, wherefore he dares not ask
other than justice.

" And I tell thee that so great is that shame and confu
sion that unless in their life they have taken the habit of
hoping in My mercy, that is, have taken the milk of mercy
(although on account of their sins this is great presumption,
for you cannot truly say that he who strikes Me with the
arm of My mercy has a hope in mercy, but rather has pre
sumption), there is not one who would not despair, and
with despair they would arrive with the Devil in eternal
damnation.

" But arriving at the extremity of death, and recognising
his sin, his conscience unloaded by holy confession, and
presumption taken away, so that he offends no more, there
remains mercy, and with this mercy he can, if he will,
take hold on hope. This is the effect of My mercy to
cause them to hope therein during their life, although 1 do
not grant them this, so that they should offend Me by
means of My mercy, but rather that they should dilate
themselves in charity, and in the consideration of My
goodness. But they act in a contrary way, because they
offend Me in the hope which they have in My mercy. And
nevertheless, I keep them in this hope so that at the last
moment they may have something which they may lay hold
of, and by so doing not faint away with the condemnation
which they receive, and thus arrive at despair ; for this
final sin of despair is much more displeasing to Me and
injures them much more than all the other sins which they
have committed. And this is the reason why this sin is
more dangerous to them and displeasing to Me, because
they commit other sins through some delight of their own
sensuality, and they sometimes grieve for them, and if they
grieve in the right way their grief will procure them mercy.
But it is no fragility of your nature which moves you to
despair, for there is no pleasure and nothing but intolerable

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 30$

suffering in it. One who despairs despises My mercy,
making his sin to be greater than My mercy and goodness,
Wherefore, if a man fall into this sin, he does not repent,
and does not truly grieve for his offence against me as he
should, grieving indeed for his own loss, but not for the
offence done to Me, and therefore he receives eternal
damnation. See, therefore, that this sin alone leads him to
hell, where he is punished for this and all the other sins
which he has committed ; whereas had he grieved and
repented for the offence done to Me, and hoped in My
mercy he would have found mercy, for, as I have said to thee,
My mercy is greater without any comparison than all the
sins which any creature can commit ; wherefore it greatly
displeases Me that they should consider their sins to be
greater.

" Despair is that sin which is pardoned neither here nor
hereafter, and it is because despair displeases Me so much
that I wish them to hope in My mercy at the point of
death, even if their life have been disordered and wicked.
This is why during their life I use this sweet trick with
them, making them hope greatly in My mercy, for when,
having fed themselves with this hope, they arrive at death,
they are not so inclined to abandon it, on account of the
severe condemnation they receive, as if they had not so
nourished themselves.

"All this is given them by the fire and abyss of My
inestimable love, but because they have used it in the
darkness of self-love, from which has proceeded their every
sin, they have not known it in truth, but in so far as they
have turned their affections towards the sweetness of My
mercy they have thought of it with great presumption.
And this is another cause of reproof which their conscience
gives them in the likeness of the Devil, reproving them in
that they should have used the time and the breadth of My
mercy in which they hoped, in charity and love of virtue,
and that the time which I gave them through love should
have been spent in holiness, whereas with all their time
and great hope of My mercy they did nothing but offend
Me miserably. Oh ! blinder than the blind ! Thou hast

u

306 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

hidden thy pearl and thy talent which I placed in thy hands
in order that thou mightest gain more with it, but thou in
thy presumption wouldst not do My will, rather thou didst
hide it under the ground of disordinate self-love, which now
renders thee the fruit of death.

" Thy miseries are not hid from thee now, for the worm
of conscience sleeps no longer, but is gnawing thee, the
devils shout and render to thee the reward which they are
accustomed to give their servants, that is to say, confusion
and condemnation ; they wish to bring thee to despair, so
that at the moment of death thou mayest not escape from
their hands, and therefore they try to confuse thee, so that
afterwards when thou art with them they may render to
thee of the part which is theirs. Oh, wretch ! the dignity
in which I placed thee, thou now seest shining as it really
is, and thou knowest to thy shame that thou hast held and
used in such guilty darkness the substance of the holy
Church, that thou seest thyself to be a thief, a debtor, who
ought to pay his debt to the poor and the holy Church.
Then thy conscience represents to thee that thou hast
spent the money on public harlots, and hast brought up
thy children and enriched thy relations, and hast thrown it
away on gluttony and on many silver vessels and other
adornments for thy house. Whereas thou shouldst have
lived in voluntary poverty.

"Thy conscience represents to thee the divine office
which thou didst neglect, by which thou didst fall into the
guilt of mortal sin, and how even when thou didst recite it
with thy mouth thy heart was far from Me. Conscience
also shows thee thy subjects, that is to say, the love and
hunger which thou shouldest have felt towards nourishing
them in virtue, giving them the example of thy life and
striking them with the hand of mercy and the rod of justice,
and because thou didst the contrary thy conscience and the
horrible likeness of the Devil reproves thee.

"And if as a prelate thou hast given prelacies or any
charge of souls unjustly to one of thy subjects, that is, that
thou hast not considered to whom and how thou wert giving
it, the Devil puts this also before thy conscience, because

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 307

thou oughtest to have given it, not on account of pleasant
words, nor in order to please creatures, nor for the sake of
gifts, but solely with regard to virtue, My honour and the
salvation of souls. And since thou hast not done so thou
art reproved, and for thy greater pain and confusion thou
hast before thy conscience and the light of thine intellect
that which thou hast done and ought not to have done, and
that which thou oughtest to have done and hast not done.

" I wish thee to know, dearest daughter, that whiteness
is better seen when placed on a black ground, and blackness
on a white, than when they are separated. So it happens
to these wretches, to these in particular and to all others in
general, for at death when the soul begins to see its woes,
and the just man his beatitude, his evil life is represented to
a wicked man, and there is no reason that any one should
remind him of the sins that he has committed, for his con
science places them before him, together with the virtues
which he ought to have practised. Why the virtues ? For
his greater shame. For vice being placed on a ground of
virtue is known better on account of the virtue, and the
better he knows his sin, the greater his shame, and by com
parison with his sin he knows better the perfection of virtue,
wherefore he grieves the more, for he sees that his own life
was devoid of any ; and I wish thee to know that in this
knowledge which dying sinners have of virtue and vice they
see only too clearly the good which follows the virtue of a
just man, and the pain that comes on him who has lain in the
darkness of mortal sin. I do not give him this knowledge
so that he may despair, but so that he may come to a per
fect self-knowledge and shame for his sins, with hope, so
that with that pain and knowledge he may pay for his sins,
and appease My anger, humbly begging My mercy. The
virtuous man increases thereby in joy and in knowledge of
My love, for he attributes the grace of having followed
virtue in the doctrine of My truth to Me and not to himself,
wherefore he exalts in Me, with this truly illuminated know
ledge, and tastes and receives the sweet end of his being in
the way which I have related to thee in another place. So
that the one, that is to say, the just man, who has lived in

308 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

ardent charity, exalts in joy, while the wicked man is
darkened and confounded in sorrow.

" To the just man the appearance and vision of the Devil
causes no harm or fear, for fear and harm can only be
caused to him by sin ; but those who have passed their
lives lasciviously and in many sins, receive both harm and
fear from the appearance of the devils, not indeed the harm
of despair if they do not wish it, but the suffering of con
demnation, of the refreshing of the worm of conscience, and
of fear and terror at their horrible aspect. See now, dearest
daughter, how different are the sufferings and the battle of
death to a just man and to a sinner, and how different is
their end.

" I have shown to the eye of thy intellect a very small
part of what happens, and so small is what I have shown
thee with regard to what it really is, to the suffering, that
is, of the one, and the happiness of the other, that it is but a
trifle. See how great is the blindness of man, and in particular
of these ministers, for the more they have received of Me,
and the more they are enlightened by the Holy Scripture,
the greater are their obligations and more intolerable con
fusion do they receive for not fulfilling them ; the more they
knew of Holy Scripture during their life, the better do they
know at their death the great sins they have committed, and
their torments are greater than those of others, just as good
men are placed in a higher degree of excellence. Theirs is
the fate of the false Christian, who is placed in Hell in
greater torment than a pagan, because he had the light of
faith and renounced it, while the pagan never had it.

" So these wretches will be punished more than other
Christians for the same sin, on account of the ministry which
I entrusted to them, appointing them to administer the sun
of the holy Sacrament, and because they had the light of
science, in order to discern the truth both for themselves and
others had they wished to ; wherefore they justly receive
the greater pains. But the wretches do not know this, for
did they consider their state at all, they would not come to
such misery, but would be that which they ought to be and
are not. For the whole world has thus become corrupt,

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 309

they being much more guilty than seculars, according to
their state ; for with their stench they defile the face of
their soul, and corrupt their subjects, and suck the blood
from My spouse, that is, the holy Church, wherefore through
these sins they make her grow pale, because they divert to
themselves the love and charity which they should have to
this divine spouse, and think of nothing but stripping her
for their own advantage, seizing prelacies, and great pro
perties, when they ought to be seeking souls. Wherefore
through their evil life, seculars become irreverent and dis
obedient to the holy Church, not that they ought on that
account to do so, or that their sins are excused through the
sins of My ministers."

CHAPTER CXXXIII.

A brief repetition of many things said above, and how GOD alto
gether forbids that priests should be touched by the hand of
seculars : and how He invites this soul to weep over these
wretched priests.

" THERE are many other sins of which I might speak to
thee, but I do not wish to make thine ears itch any longer.
I have told thee so much in order to satisfy thy desire, and
so that thou mayest be more solicitous to offer before Me
thy sweet, amorous, and bitter longings. And I have told
thee that the excellence to which I have appointed them,
and of the treasure which is administered to you by their
hands, that is, of the holy Sacrament, wholly God and
wholly man, illustrating this truth to thee by the figure of
the sun in order that thou mightest see that the virtue of
the Sacrament is not diminished by their sins, and that
therefore it is My will that your reverence towards them
should not diminish on that account. And I have shown
thee the excellence of My virtuous ministers in whom shines
the pearl of holy justice and the other virtues. I have also
shown thee how displeasing to Me is the offence committed

310 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

by persecutors of the holy Church, and also the irreverence
in which they hold the Blood. For the persecutions directed
against My ministers I consider as directed against the
Blood and not against them, for I have forbidden My Christs
to be touched. I have also related to thee somewhat of the
shameful life of My ministers, how wretchedly they live,
and what pain and confusion they receive at their death, and
how much more cruelly than others they are punished after
death. I have now fulfilled My promise to thee, which was
to tell thee something of their life and, having consented to
fulfil My promise, have satisfied thy demand.

" I now repeat to thee what I said at first, that however
great their sins might be, even if they were greater than I
have mentioned, I do not wish any secular to occupy him
self in punishing them ; and if they do so their sin will not
remain unpunished unless they punish it themselves, amend
ing their lives with contrition of heart. For both secular
and priest are incarnate devils, and through the divine
justice one devil punishes another, and both sin, so that the
secular is not excused through the sin of the prelate, nor
the prelate through the sin of the secular.

I now invite thee, dearest daughter, and all My other
servants, to weep over these corpses, and to remain like
lambs in the garden of the holy Church, feeding there with
holy desire and continued prayers, offering them before Me
for their sakes, for I wish to do mercy to the world ; and
do not leave this food of yours either, through injuries or
through prosperity, for I do not wish My servants to lift
their heads with impatience or disordinate joy, but humbly
to devote yourselves to My honour and the salvation of
souls, and to the reformation of the holy Church. And
this will be a proof to Me that thou and My other servants
love Me in truth. Thou knowest well that I showed thee
how I wished thee and My other servants to be lambs ever
feeding in the garden of the holy Church, enduring with
fatigue up to the last moment of their lives, and if in truth
thou doest so I will fulfil thy desires."

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 3"

CHAPTER CXXXIV.

How this devout soul, praising and thanking GOD, made a
prayer for the Holy Church.

THEN this soul, as if inebriated, tormented, and on fire
with love, her heart wounded with great bitterness, turned
herself to the Supreme and Eternal Goodness, saying:
"Oh! Eternal God! oh! Light above every other light,
from whom issues all light ! Oh ! Fire above every fire,
because Thou art the only Fire who burnest without
consuming, and consumest all sin and self-love found in
the soul, not afflicting her, but fattening her with insa
tiable love, and though the soul is filled she is not
sated, but ever desires Thee, and the more of Thee she
has, the more she seeks and the more she desires, the
more she finds and tastes of Thee Supreme and Eternal
Fire, Abyss of Charity. Oh ! Supreme and Eternal Good,
who has moved Thee, Infinite God, to illuminate me, Thy
finite creature with the light of Thy Truth ? Thou, the same
Fire of Love art the cause, because it is always love which
constrained and constrains Thee to create us in Thine
image and similitude, and to do us mercy, giving immea
surable and infinite graces to Thy rational creatures. Oh !
Goodness above all goodness ! Thou alone art He who is
Supremely Good, and nevertheless Thou gavest the Word,
Thy only-begotten Son, to converse with us filthy ones and
filled with darkness. What was the cause of this ? Love.
Because Thou lovedst us before we were. Oh! Good!
oh! Eternal Greatness! Thou madest Thyself low and
small to make man great. On which ever side I turn I
find nothing but the abyss and fire of Thy charity. And
can a wretch like me pay back to Thee the graces and the
burning charity that Thou hast shown and showest with so
much burning love in particular to me beyond common
charity, and the love that Thou showest to all Thy
creatures ? No, but Thou alone, most sweet and amorous
Father, art He who will be thankful and grateful for me,

312 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

that is, that the affection of Thy charity itself will render
Thee thanks, because I am she who is not, and if I spoke
as being anything of myself, I should be lying by my
own head, and should be a lying daughter of the Devil, who
is the father of lies, because Thou alone art He who is.
And my being and every further grace that Thou hast
bestowed upon me, I have from Thee, who givest them to
me through love, and not as my due.

" Oh ! sweetest Father, when the human race lay sick
through the sin of Adam, Thou didst send it a Physician,
the sweet and amorous Word Thy Son ; and now, when I
was lying infirm with the sickness of negligence and much
ignorance, Thou, most soothing and sweet Physician,
Eternal God, hast given a soothing, sweet, and bitter
medicine, that I may be cured and rise from my infirmity.
Thou hast soothed me because with Thy love and gentle
ness Thou hast manifested Thyself to me, Sweet above all
sweetness, and hast illuminated the eye of my intellect with
the light of most holy faith, with which light, according as
it has pleased Thee to manifest it to me, I have known the
excellence of grace which Thou hast given to the human
race, administering to it the entire God-Man in the mystic
body of the holy Church. And I have known the dignity
of Thy ministers whom Thou hast appointed to administer
Thee to us. I desired that Thou wouldest fulfil the promise
that Thou madest to me, and Thou gavest much more, more
even than I knew how to ask for. Wherefore I know in
truth that the heart of man knows not how to ask or desire
as much as thou canst give, and thus I see that Thou art
He Who is the Supreme and Eternal Good, and that we
are they who are not. And because Thou art infinite, and
we are finite, Thou givest that which Thy rational creature
cannot desire enough ; for she cannot desire it in itself,
nor in the way in which Thou canst and wilt satisfy the
soul, filling her with things for which she does not ask
Thee. Moreover, I have received light from Thy Great
ness and Charity, through the love which Thou hast for the
whole human race, and in particular for Thy anointed ones,
who ought to be earthly angels in this life. Thou hast

A TREATISE OF PRAYER 313

shown me the virtue and beatitude of these Thy anointed
ones who have lived like burning lamps, shining with the
Pearl of Justice in the holy Church. And by comparison
with these I have better understood the sins of those who
live wretchedly. Wherefore I have conceived a very great
sorrow at Thy offence and the harm done to the whole
world, for they do harm to the world, being mirrors of sin
when they ought to be mirrors of virtue. And because
Thou hast manifested and grieved over their iniquities to
me a wretch who am the cause and instrument of many
sins I am plunged in intolerable grief.

" Thou, oh ! inestimable love, hast manifested this to me,
giving me a sweet and bitter medicine that I might wholly
arise out of the infirmity of my ignorance and negligence,
and have recourse to Thee with anxious and solicitous
desire, knowing myself and Thy goodness and the offences
which are committed against Thee by all sorts of people, so
that I might shed a river of tears, drawn from the know
ledge of Thy infinite goodness, over my wretched self and
over those who are dead in that they live miserably.
Wherefore I do not wish, oh ! eternal Father, ineffable Fire
of Love, that my heart should ever grow weary, or my eyes
fail through tears, in desiring Thy honour and the salvation
of souls, but I beg of Thee, by Thy grace, that they may
be as two streams of water issuing from Thee, the Sea
Pacific. Thanks, thanks to Thee, oh ! Father, for having
granted me that which I asked Thee and that which I
neither knew nor asked, for by Thus giving me matter for
grief Thou hast invited me to offer before Thee sweet,
loving, and yearning desires, with humble and continual
prayer. Now I beg of Thee that Thou wilt do mercy to
the world and to the holy Church. I pray Thee to fulfil
that which Thou didst cause me to ask Thee. Alas ! what
a wretched and sorrowful soul is mine, the cause of all these
evils. Do not put off any longer Thy merciful designs
towards the world, but descend and fulfil the desire of Thy
servants.

" Ah me ! Thou causest them to cry in order to hear their
voices ! Thy truth told us to cry out, and we should be

314 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

answered ; to knock, and it would be opened to us ; to beg,
and it would be given to us. Oh ! eternal Father, Thy
servants do cry out to Thy mercy ; do Thou then reply.

" I know well that mercy is Thine own attribute, where
fore Thou canst not destroy it or refuse it to him who asks
for it. Thy servants knock at the door of Thy truth,
because in the truth of Thy only-begotten Son they know
the ineffable love which Thou hast for man, wherefore the
fire of Thy love ought not and cannot refrain from opening
to him who knocks with perseverance. Wherefore open,
unlock, and break the hardened hearts of Thy creatures, not
for their sakes who do not knock, but on account of Thy
infinite goodness, and through love of Thy servants who
knock at Thee for their sakes. Grant the prayer of those,
Eternal Father, who, as Thou seest, stand at the door of
Thy truth and pray. For what do they pray ? For with
the Blood of this door Thy truth hast Thou washed
our iniquities and destroyed the stain of Adam s sin.
The Blood is ours, for Thou hast made it our bath,
wherefore Thou canst not deny it to any one who truly
asks for it. Give, then, the fruit of Thy Blood to Thy
creatures. Place in the balance the price of the blood of
Thy Son, so that the infernal devils may not carry off Thy
lambs. Thou art the Good Shepherd who, to fulfil Thy
obedience, laid down His life for Thy lambs, and made for
us a bath of His Blood.

"That Blood is what Thy hungry servants beg of Thee
at this door, begging Thee through it to do mercy to the
world, and to cause Thy holy Church to bloom with the
fragrant flowers of good and holy pastors, who by their
sweet odour shall extinguish the stench of the putrid flowers
of sin. Thou hast said, eternal Father, that through the love
which Thou hast for Thy rational creatures, and the prayers
and the many virtues and labours of Thy servants, Thou
wouldest do mercy to the world, and reform the Church,
and thus give us refreshment ; wherefore do not delay, but
turn the eye of Thy mercy towards us, for Thou must first
reply to us before we can cry out with the voice of Thy
mercy. Open the door of Thy inestimable love which Thou

A TREATISE OF OBEDIENCE 31$

hast given us through the door of Thy Word. I know
indeed that Thou openest before even we can knock, for it
is with the affection of love which Thou hast given to Thy
servants, that they knock and cry to Thee, seeking Thy
honour and the salvation of souls. Give them then the
bread of life, that is to say, the fruit of the Blood of Thy
only begotten Son, which they ask of Thee for the praise
and glory of My name and the salvation of souls. For
more glory and praise will be Thine in saving so many
creatures, than in leaving them obstinate in their hardness
of heart. To Thee, Eternal Father, everything is possible,
and even though Thou hast created us without our own
help, Thou wilt not save us without it. I beg of Thee to-
force their wills, and dispose them to wish for that for
which they do not wish ; and this I ask Thee through Thy
infinite mercy. Thou hast created us from nothing, now,
therefore, that we are in existence, do mercy to us, and
remake the vessels which Thou hast created to Thy image
and likeness. Re-create them to Grace in Thy mercy and
the Blood of Thy Son sweet Christ Jesus."

CHAPTER CXXXV.
A TREATISE OF OBEDIENCE

Here begins the treatise of obedience, and first of where obedience
may be found, and what it is that destroys it, and what is the
sign of a man s possessing it, and what accompanies and nourishes
obedience.

THE Supreme and Eternal Father, kindly turning the eye of
His mercy and clemency towards her, replied : " Thy holy
desire and righteous request, oh ! dearest daughter, have a
right to be heard, and inasmuch as I am the Supreme Truth,
I will keep My word, fulfilling the promise which I made to
thee, and satisfying thy desire. And if thou ask Me where
obedience is to be found, and what is the cause of its loss,
and the sign of its possession, I reply that thou wilt find it

3i6 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

in its completeness in the sweet and amorous Word, My
only-begotten Son. So prompt in Him was this virtue,
that, in order to fulfil it, He hastened to the shameful death
of the Cross. What destroys obedience ? Look at the
first man and thou wilt see the cause which destroyed the
obedience imposed on him by Me, the eternal Father. It
was pride, which was produced by self-love, and desire to
please his companion. This was the cause that deprived
him of the perfection of obedience, giving him instead dis
obedience, depriving him of the life of grace, and slaying
his innocence, wherefore he fell into impurity and great
misery, and not only he, but the whole human race, as I
said to thee. The sign that thou hast this virtue is patience,
and impatience the sign that you have it not, and thou wilt
find that this is indeed so, when I speak to thee further con
cerning this virtue. But observe that obedience may be kept
in two ways, of which one is more perfect than the other,
not that they are on that account separated, but united as I
explained to thee of the precepts and counsels. The one
way is the most perfect, the other is also good and perfect ;
for no one at all can reach eternal life if he be not obedient,
for the door was unlocked by the key of obedience, which
had been fastened by the disobedience of Adam. I, then,
being constrained by My infinite goodness, since I saw that
man whom I so much loved, did not return to Me, his End,
took the keys of obedience and placed them in the hands
of My sweet and amorous Word the Truth and He
becoming the porter of that door, opened it, and no one
can enter except by means of that door and that Porter.
Wherefore He said in the Holy Gospel that no one could
come to Me, the Father, if not by Htm. When He returned
to Me, rising to Heaven from the conversation of men at
the Ascension, He left you this sweet key of obedience ; for
as thou knowest He left His vicar, the Christ on earth,
whom you are all obliged to obey until death, and whoever
is outside his obedience is in a state of damnation, as I
have already told thee in another place. Now I wish thee
to see and know this most excellent virtue in that humble
and immaculate Lamb, and the source whence it proceeds.

A TREATISE OF OBEDIENCE 317

What caused the great obedience of the Word ? The love
which He had for My honour and your salvation. Whence
proceeded this love ? From the clear vision with which
His soul saw the divine essence and the eternal Trinity,
thus always looking on Me, the eternal God. His fidelity ob
tained this vision most perfectly for Him, which vision you
imperfectly enjoy by the light of holy faith. He was faithful
to Me, His eternal Father, and therefore hastened as one
enamoured along the road of obedience, lit up with the light
of glory. And inasmuch as love cannot be alone, but is
accompanied by all the true and royal virtues, because all
the virtues draw their life from love. He possessed them
all, but in a different way from that in which you do.
Among the others he possessed patience, which is the marrow
of obedience, and a demonstrative sign, whether a soul be
in a state of grace and truly love or not. Wherefore charity,
the mother of patience, has given her as a sister to obedience,
and so closely united them together that one cannot be lost
without the other. Either thou hast them both or thou hast
neither. This virtue has a nurse who feeds her, that is,
true humility ; therefore a soul is obedient in proportion to
her humility, and humble in proportion to her obedience.
This humility is the foster-mother and nurse of charity,
and with the same milk she feeds the virtue of obedience.
Her raiment given her by this nurse is self-contempt, and
insult, desire to displease herself, and to please Me. Where
does she find this ? In sweet Christ Jesus, My only-
begotten Son. For who abased himself more than He did !
He was sated with insults, jibes, and mockings. He caused
pain to Himself in His bodily life, in order to please Me.
And who was more patient than He ? for His cry was never
heard in murmuring, but He patiently embraced His injuries
like one enamoured, fulfilling the obedience imposed on Him
by Me, His Eternal Father. Wherefore in Him thou wilt
find obedience perfectly accomplished. He left you this
rule and this doctrine, which gives you life, for it is the
straight way, having first observed them Himself. He is
the way, wherefore He said, He was the Way, the Truth,
and the Life. 1 For he who travels by that way, travels in

3i8 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

the light, and being enlightened cannot stumble, or be
caused to fall, without perceiving it. For He has cast from
Himself the darkness of self-love, by which he fell into dis
obedience ; for as I spoke to thee of a companion virtue
proceeding from obedience and humility, so I tell you that
disobedience comes from pride, which issues from self-love
depriving the soul of humility. The sister given by self-
love to disobedience is impatience, and pride, her foster-
mother, feeds her with the darkness of infidelity, so she
hastens along the way of darkness, which leads her to
eternal death. All this you should read in that glorious
book, where you find described this and every other
virtue."

CHAPTER CXXXVI.

How obedience is the key with which Heaven is opened, and how the
soul should fasten it by means of a cord to her girdle, and of the
excellences of obedience.

" Now that I have shown thee where obedience is to be
found, and whence she comes, and who is her companion,
and who her foster-mother, I will continue to speak of
the obedient and of the disobedient together, and of
obedience in general, which is the obedience of the pre
cepts ; and in particular, which is that of the counsels.
The whole of your faith is founded upon obedience, for by
it you prove your fidelity. You are all in general by My
truth to obey the commandments of the law, the chief of
which is to love Me above everything, and your neighbour
as yourself, and the commandments are so bound up
together, that you cannot observe or transgress one without
observing or transgressing all. He who observes this
principal commandment observes all the others ; he is
faithful to Me and his neighbour, for he loves Me and
My creature, and is therefore obedient, becoming subject to
the commandments of the law, and to creatures for My

A TREATISE OF OBEDIENCE 319

sake, and with humble patience he endures every labour,
and even his neighbour s detraction of him. This obedi
ence is of such excellence that ye all derive grace from it,
just as from disobedience you all derive death. Wherefore
it is not enough that it should be only in word, and not
practised by you. I have already told you that this word
is the key which opens heaven, which key My Son placed
in the hands of His vicar. This vicar placed it in the
hands of every one who receives holy baptism, promising
therein to renounce the world and all its pomps and
delights, and to obey. So that each man has in his own
person that very same key which the Word had, and if a
man does not unlock in the light of faith, and with the
hand of love the gate of heaven by means of this key, he
never will enter there, in spite of its having been opened
by the Word ; for though I created you without yourselves,
I will not save you without yourselves. Wherefore you must
take the key in your hand and walk by the doctrine of My
Word, and not remain seated that is to say, placing your
love in finite things, as do foolish men who follow the first
man, their first father, following his example, and casting the
key of obedience into the mud of impurity, breaking it with
the hammer of pride, rusting it with self-love. It would
have been entirely destroyed had not My only begotten Son,
the Word, come and taken this key of obedience in His
hands and purified it in the fire of divine love, having
drawn it out of the mud, and cleansed it with His blood,
and straightened it with the knife of justice, and hammered
your iniquities into shape on the anvil of His own body.
So perfectly did He repair it that no matter how much a
man may have spoilt his key by his free-will, by the self
same free-will, assisted by My grace, he can repair it with
the same instruments that were used by My Word. Oh !
blinder than the blind, for, having spoilt the key of obedi
ence, thou dost not think of mending it ! Dost thou think
forsooth that the disobedience which closed the door of
Heaven will open it ? that the pride which fell can rise ?
Dost thou think to be admitted to the marriage feast in
foul and disordered garments? Dost thou think that

3 20 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

sitting down and binding thyself with the chain of mortal
sin, thou canst walk ? or that without a key thou canst
open the door ? Do not imagine that thou canst, for it is
a fantastical delusion ; thou must be firm, thou must leave
mortal sin by a holy confession, contrition of heart, satis
faction, and purpose of amendment. Then thou wilt throw
off that hideous and defiled garment and, clothed in the
shining nuptial robe, wilt hasten, the key of obedience in
thy hand, to open the door. But bind this key with the
cord of self-contempt, and hatred of thyself and of the
world, and fasten it to the love of pleasing Me, Thy
creator, of which thou shouldest make a girdle to thyself to
bind thy loins with it, for fear thou lose it. Know, My
daughter, there are many who take up this key of obedi
ence, having seen by the light of faith that in no other
way can they escape eternal damnation ; but they hold it in
their hand without wearing this girdle, or fastening the
key to it with the cord of self-contempt, that is to say that,
they are not perfectly clothed with My pleasure, but still
seek to please themselves ; they do not wear the cord of
self-contempt, for they do not desire to be despised, but
rather take delight in the praise of men. Such as these
are apt to lose their key ; for if they suffer a little extra
fatigue, or mental or corporal tribulation, and if, as often
happens, the hand of holy desire loosens its grasp, they will
lose it. They can indeed find it again if they wish to
while they live, but if they do not wish they will never
find it, and what will prove to them, that they have lost
it ? Impatience, for patience was united to obedience, and
their impatience proves that obedience does not dwell in
their soul. Oh ! how sweet and glorious is this virtue,
which contains all the rest, for she is conceived and born
of charity, on her is founded the rock of the holy faith.
She is a queen whose consort will feel no trouble, but only
peace and quiet ; the waves of the stormy sea cannot hurt
her, nor can any tempest reach the interior of the soul in
whom she dwells. Such a one feels no hatred when
injured, because he wishes to obey the precept of forgive
ness, he suffers not when his appetites are not satisfied,

A TREATISE OF OBEDIENCE 32 c

because obedience has ordered him to desire Me alone,
who can and will satisfy all his desires, if he strip himself
of worldly riches. And so in all things which would be
too long to relate, he who has chosen as spouse Queen
Obedience, the appointed key of heaven, finds peace and
quiet. Oh ! blessed obedience ! thou voyagest without
fatigue, and reachest without danger the port of salvation,
thou art conformed to My only begotten Son, the Word,
thou boardest the ship of the holy cross, forcing thyself to
endure, so as not to transgress the obedience of the Word,
nor abandon His doctrine, of which thou makest a table
when thou eatest the food of souls, dwelling in the love of
thy neighbour, being anointed with true humility, which
saves thee from coveting, contrary to My will, his posses
sions, thou walkest erect, without bending, for thy heart is
sincere and not false, loving generously and truly My
creatures, thou art a sunrise drawing after thee the light
of divine grace, thou art a sun which makes the earth,
that is to say, the organs of the soul, to germinate with the
heat of charity, all of which as well as those of the body
produce life-giving fruit for thyself and thy neighbour.
Thou art even cheerful, for thy face is never wrinkled with
impatience, but smooth and pleasant with the happiness of
patience, and even in its fortitude thou art great by thy
long endurance, so long that it reaches from earth to
heaven and unlocks the celestial door. Thou art a hidden
pearl, trampled by the world, abasing thyself, submitting
to all creatures. Yet thy kingdom is so great that no one
can rule thee, for thou hast come out of the mortal servi
tude of thy own sensuality, which destroyed thy dignity,
and having slain this enemy with hatred and dislike of thy
own pleasure hast re-obtained thy liberty."

322 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

CHAPTER CXXXVII.

Here both the misery of the disobedient and the excellence
of the obedient are spoken of.

this, dearest daughter, has been done by My good
ness and providence as I have told thee, for by My provi
dence the Word repaired the key of obedience, but worldly
men devoid of every virtue do the contrary, they, like
unbridled horses, without the bit of obedience, go from
bad to worse, from sin to sin, from misery to misery, from
darkness to darkness, from death to death, until they
finally reach the edge of the ditch of death, gnawed by the
worm of their conscience, and though it is true that they
can obey the precepts of the law if they will, and have the
time repenting of their disobedience, it is very hard for
them to do so, on account of their long habit of sin.
Therefore let no man trust to this, putting off his finding
of the key of obedience to the moment of his death, for
although every one may and should hope as long as he has
life, he should not put such trust in this hope as to delay
repentance. What is the reason of all this, and of such
blindness that prevents them recognising this treasure.
The cloud of self-love and wretched pride, through which
they abandoned obedience, and fell into disobedience.
Being disobedient they are impatient, as has been said, and
in their impatience endure intolerable pain, for it has
seduced them from the way of Truth, leading them along a
way of lies, making them slaves and friends of the devils
with whom, unless indeed they amend themselves with
patience, they will go to the eternal torments. Contrari
wise, My beloved sons, obedient and observers of the law
rejoice and exult in My eternal vision with the Immaculate
and humble Lamb, the Maker, Fulfiller, and Giver of this
law of obedience. Observing this law in this life they
taste peace without any disturbance, they receive and
clothe themselves in the most perfect peace, for there they
possess every good without any evil, safety without any

A TREATISE OF OBEDIENCE 323

fear, riches without any poverty, satiety without disgust,
hunger without pain, light without darkness, one supreme
infinite good, shared by all those who taste it truly.
What has placed them in so blessed a state ? The blood
of the Lamb, by virtue of which the key of obedience has
lost its rust, so that, by the virtue of the blood, it has been
able to unlock the door. Oh ! fools and madmen, delay
no longer to come out of the mud of impurity, for you
seem like pigs to wallow in the mire of your own lust.
Abandon the injustice, murders, hatreds, rancours, detrac
tions, murmurings, false judgments, and cruelty, with which
you use your neighbours, your thefts and treacheries, and
the disordinate pleasures and delights of the world ;
cut off the horns of pride, by which amputation you will
extinguish the hatred which is in your heart against your
neighbours. Compare the injuries which you do to Me
and to your neighbour with those done to you, and you
will see that those done to you are but trifles. You will
see that remaining in hatred you injure Me by transgress
ing My precept, and you also injure the object of your hate
for you deprive him of your love, whereas you have been
commanded to love Me above everything, and your neigh
bour as yourself. No gloss has been put upon these words
as if it should have been said, if your neighbour injures
you do not love him ; but they are to be taken naturally
and simply, as they were said to you by My Truth, who
Himself literally observed this rule. Literally also should
you observe it, and if you do not you will injure your own
soul, depriving it of the life of grace. Take, oh ! take
then, the key of obedience with the light of faith, walk no
longer in such darkness or cold, but observe obedience in
the fire of love, so that ye may taste eternal life together
with the other observers of the law."

324 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

CHAPTER CXXXVIII.

Of those who have such love for obedience that they do not remain
content with the general obedience of precepts, but take on
themselves a particular obedience.

" THERE are some, My dearest daughter, in whom the
sweet and amorous fire of love towards obedience burns
so high (which fire of love cannot exist without hatred of
self-love, so that when the fire increases so does this self-
hatred), that they are not content to observe the precepts of
the Law with a general obedience as you are all obliged to
do if you will have life and not death, but take upon
themselves a particular obedience, following the greatest
perfection, so that they become observers of the counsels
both in deed and in thought. Such as these wish to bind
themselves more tightly through self-hatred, and in order to
restrain in everything their own will. They either place
themselves under the yoke of obedience in holy religion, or,
without entering religion, they bind themselves to some
creature, submitting their will to his, so as more expe-
ditiously to unlock the door of Heaven. These are they,
as I have told thee, who have chosen the most perfect
obedience. I have already spoken to thee of obedience in
general, and as I know it to be thy will that I should
speak to thee of this particular and most perfect obedience,
I will now relate to thee somewhat of this second kind,
which is not divided from the first, but is more perfect, for,
as I have already told thee, these two kinds of obedience
are so closely united together that they cannot be separ
ated. I have told thee where general obedience is to be
found and whence it proceeds, and the cause of its loss.
*Now I will speak to thee of this particular obedience, not
altering, however, the fundamental principle of the virtue."

A TREATISE OF OBEDIENCE 325

CHAPTER CXXXIX.

How a soul advances from general to particular obedience ; and
of the excellence of the religous orders.

41 THE soul who with love has submitted to the yoke of
obedience, to the Commandments, following the doctrine of
My truth virtuously exercising herself, as has been said,
in this general kind of obedience will advance to the second
kind by means of the same light which brought her to the
first, for by the light of the most holy faith she would
have learnt, in the blood of the humble Lamb, My truth
the ineffable love which I have for her, and her own
fragility, which cannot respond to Me with due perfection.
So she wanders, seeking by that light in what place and in
what way she can pay her debt, trampling on her own
fragility, and restraining her own will. Enlightened in her
search by faith, she finds the place namely, holy religion
which has been founded by the Holy Spirit, appointed as
the ship to receive souls who wish to hasten to perfection,
and to bring them to the port of salvation. The Captain
of this ship is the Holy Spirit, who never fails in Himself
through the defects of any of His religious subjects who
may transgress the rule of the order. The ship itself
cannot be damaged, but only the offender. It is true that
the mistake of the steersman may send her down into the
billows, and these are wicked pastors and prelates ap
pointed by the Master of the ship. The ship herself is so
delightful that thy tongue could not narrate it. I say, then,
that the soul, on fire with desire and a holy self-hatred,
having found her place by the light of faith, enters there
as one dead, if she is truly obedient ; that is to say, if she
have perfectly observed general obedience. And even if
she should be imperfect when she enters, it does not follow
that she cannot attain perfection. On the contrary, she
attains it by exercising herself in the virtue of obedience ;
indeed, most of those who enter are imperfect. There are
some who enter already in perfection, others in the child-

326 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

hood of virtue, others through fear, others through penance,
others through allurements, everything depends on whether
after they have entered they exercise themselves in virtue,
and persevere till death, for no true judgment can be made
on a person s entrance into religion, but only on their
perseverance, for many have appeared to be perfect who
have afterwards turned back, or remained in the order with
much imperfection, so that, as I have said, the act of
entrance into this ship ordained by Me, who call men in
different ways, does not supply material for a real
judgment, but only the love of those who persevere therein
with true obedience. This ship is rich, so that there is no
need for the subject to think about his necessities either
temporal or spiritual, for if he is truly obedient, and
observes his order, he will be provided for by his Master,
who is the Holy Spirit, as I told thee when I spoke to
thee of My providence, saying that though thy servants
might be poor, they were never beggars. No more are
these, for they find everything they need, and those who
observe this order find this to be indeed true. Wherefore,
see that in the days when the religious orders lived virtu
ously, blossoming with true poverty and fraternal charity,
their temporal substance never failed them, but they had
more than their needs demanded. But because the stench
of self-love has entered and caused each to keep his
private possessions and to fail in obedience, their tem
poral substance has failed, and the more they possess to
the greater destitution do they come. It is just that even
in the smallest matters they should experience the fruit of
disobedience, for had they been obedient and observed the
vow of poverty, each would not have taken his own, and
lived privately. See the riches of these holy rules, so
thoughtfully and luminously appointed by those who were
temples of the Holy Spirit. See with what judgment
Benedict ordered his ship ; see with what perfection and
order of poverty Francis ordered his ship, decked with the
pearls of virtue, steering it in the way of lofty perfection ,
being the first to give his order for spouse, true and holy
poverty, whom he had chosen for himself, embracing self-

A TREATISE OF OBEDIENCE 327

contempt and self-hatred, not desiring to please any
creature but only thy will ; desiring rather to be thought
vile by the world, macerating his body and slaying his will,
clothing himself in insults, sufferings, and jibes, for love of
the humble Lamb, with Whom he was fastened and nailed
to the cross by love, so that by a singular grace there
appeared in his body the very wounds of thy Truth, show
ing in the vessel of his body that which was in the love of
his soul, so he prepared the way.

" But thou wilt say, Are not all the other religious
orders equally founded on this point ? Yes, but though
they are all founded on it, in no other is this the principal
foundation ; as with the virtues, though all the virtues draw
their life from charity, nevertheless, as I explained tothee in
another place, one virtue belongs especially to one man,
and another to another, and yet they all remain in charity,
so with the principal foundation of the religious orders.
Poverty belonged especially to My poor man Francis, who
placed the principal foundation of his order in love for this
poverty, and made it very strict for those who were perfect,
for the few and the good, not for the majority. I say few
because they are not many who choose this perfection,
though now through their sins they are multiplied in numbers
and deficient in virtue, not through defect of the ship, but
through disobedient subjects and wicked rulers. Now look
at the ship of thy father Dominic, My beloved son : he
ordered it most perfectly, wishing that his sons should
apply themselves only to My honour and the salvation of
souls, with the light of science, which light he laid as his
principal foundation, not, however, on that account, being
deprived of true and voluntary poverty, but having it also.
And as a sign that he had it truly, and that the contrary
displeased him, he left as an heirloom to his sons his curse
and Mine, if they should hold any possessions, either
privately or in community, as a sign that he had chosen
for his spouse Queen Poverty. But for his more immediate
and personal object he took the light of science in order to
extirpate the errors which had arisen in his time, thus
taking on him the office of My only-begotten Son, the

328 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

Word. Rightly he appeared as an apostle in the world,
and sowed the seed of My Word with much truth and
light, dissipating darkness and giving light. He was a
light which I gave the world by means of Mary, placed in
the mystical body of the Holy Church as an extirpator of
heresies. Why do I say by means of Mary ? Because
Mary gave him his habit this office was committed to her
by My goodness. At what table does he feed his sons
with the light of science ? At the table of the cross, which
is the table of holy desire, when souls are eaten for My
honour. Dominic does not wish his sons to apply them
selves to anything, but remaining at this table, there to
seek with the light of science, the glory and praise of My
name alone, and the salvation of souls. And in order that
they might do nothing else, he chose poverty for them, so
that they might not have the care of temporal things. It
is true that some failed in faith, fearing that they would
not be provided for, but he never. Being clothed in faith,
and hoping with firm confidence in My providence. He
wishes his sons to observe obedience and do their duty,
and since impure living obscures the eye of the intellect,
and not only the eye of the intellect, but also of the body,
he does not wish them to obscure their physical light with
which they may more perfectly obtain the light of science ;
wherefore he imposed on them the third vow of continence,
and wishes that all should observe it, with true and perfect
obedience, although to-day it is badly observed. They
also prevent the light of science with the darkness of pride,
not that this light can be darkened in itself, but only in
their souls, for there, where pride is, can be no obedience.
I have already told thee that a man s humility is in propor
tion to his obedience, and his obedience to his humility,
and similarly, when he transgresses the vow of obedience,
it rarely happens that he does not also transgress the vow
of continence, either in thought or deed ; so that he has
rigged his ship with the three ropes of obedience, continence,
and true poverty ; he made it a royal ship, not obliging
his subjects under pain of mortal sin, and illuminated by
Me the true light, he provided for those who should be less

A TREATISE OF OBEDIENCE 329

perfect, for though all who observe the order are perfect in
kind, yet one possesses a higher degree of perfection than
another, yet all perfect or imperfect live well in this ship.
He allied himself with My truth, showing that he did not
desire the death of a sinner, but rather that he should be con
verted and live. Wherefore his religion is a delightful
garden, broad and joyous and fragrant, but the wretches
who do not observe the order, but transgress its vows, have
turned it into a desert and defiled it with their scanty virtue
and light of science, though they are nourished at its breast.
I do not say that the order itself is in this condition, for it
still possesses every delight, but in the beginning its sub
jects were not as they are now, but blooming flowers, and
men of great perfection. Each seemed to be another
St. Paul, their eyes so illuminated that the darkness of error
was dissipated by their glance. Look at My glorious
Thomas, who gazed with the gentle eye of his intellect at
My Truth, whereby he acquired supernatural light and
science infused by grace, for he obtained it rather by means
of prayer than by human study. He was a brilliant light,
illuminating his order and the mystical body of the Holy
Church, dissipating the clouds of heresy. Look at My
Peter, virgin and martyr, who by his blood gave light among
the darkness of many heresies, and the heretics hated him
so that at last they took his life ; yet while he lived he
applied himself to nothing but prayer, preaching, and disput
ation with heretics, hearing confessions, announcing the
truth, and spreading the faith without any fear, to such an
extent that he not only confessed it in his life but even at
the moment of his death, for when he was at the last ex
tremity, having neither voice nor ink left, having received
his death-blow, he dipped his finger in his blood, and this
glorious martyr, having not paper on which to write, leaned
over, confessing the faith, and wrote the Credo on the ground.
His heart burnt in the furnace of My charity, so that he
never slackened his pace nor turned his head back, though
he knew that he was to die, for I had revealed to him his
death, but like a true knight he fearlessly came forth on to
the battle-field ; and I could tell thee the same of many

330 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

others, who though they did not actually experience martyr
dom, were martyrs in will like Dominic ; great labourers-
were these sent by My Father to labour in His vineyard
to extirpate the thorns of vice, planting the virtues in their
stead. Of a truth Dominic and Francis were two columns
of the holy Church. Francis with the poverty which was
specially his own, as has been said, and Dominic with his
learning."

CHAPTER CXL.

Of the excellence of the obedient, and of the misery of the
disobedient members of the religious orders.

" Now that places suitable for obedience have been found r
namely, these ships commanded by the Holy Spirit through
the medium of their superiors, for, as I told thee, the Holy
Spirit is the true Master of these ships, which are built in
the light of the most holy faith by those who have the
light to know that My clemency, the Holy Spirit, will steer
them, and having thus shown thee the place of obedience and
its perfection, I will speak to thee of the obedience and of the
disobedience of those who travel in such a ship, speaking
of all together and not of one ship that is, one order in
particular, showing thee the sin of the disobedient and the
virtue of the obedient, so that a man may better know the
one by contrast with the other, and how he should walk if
he would enter the ship of a religious order. How should
he walk who wishes to enter this state of perfect and par
ticular obedience ? With the light of holy faith, by which
he will know that he must slay his self-will with the knife
of hatred of every sensual passion, taking the spouse which
charity gives him, together with her sister. The spouse is
true and prompt obedience, and the sister, patience ; and
he must also take the nurse of humility, for without this
nurse obedience would perish of hunger, for obedience soon
dies in a soul deprived of this little virtue of humility.

A TREATISE OF OBEDIENCE 331

" Humility is not alone but has the handmaid of con
tempt of self and of the world, which causes the soul to
hold herself vile, and not to desire honour but shame.
Thus dead to himself, should he who is old enough enter
the ship of a religious order, but however he may enter it
(for I have told thee that I call souls in diverse ways), he
should acquire and preserve this affection, hurrying gene
rously to seize the key of the obedience of his order, which
will open the little door which is in the panel of the door
of Heaven. Such as these have undertaken to open the
little door, doing without the great key of general obedience,
which opens the door of Heaven, as I have said to thee.
They have taken a little key, passing through a low and
narrow opening in the great door. This small door is part
of the great door, as thou mayest see in any real door.
They should keep this key when they have got it, and not
throw it away. And because the truly obedient have seen
with the light of faith that they will never be able to pass
through this little door with the load of their riches and the
weight of their own will without great fatigue and without
losing their life, and that they cannot walk with head erect
without breaking their neck, whether they wish to or not,
they cast from them the load of their riches, and of their
own will observing the vow of voluntary poverty, refusing
to possess anything, for they see by the light of faith to
what ruin they would come if they transgressed obedience,
and the vow of poverty which they promised to keep.
The disobedient walk in pride, holding their heads erect,
and if sometimes it suits their convenience to obey they do
not incline their heads with humility, but proudly do so,
because they must, which force breaks the neck of their
will, for they fulfil their obedience with hatred of their
order and of their superior. Little by little they are
ruined on another point, for they transgress the vow of
continence, for he who does not constrain his appetite or
strip himself of temporal substance makes many relations
and finds plenty of friends who love him for their own
profit. From these relations they go on to close intimacies,
their body they tend luxuriously, for being without either

332 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

the nurse of humility or her sister, self-contempt, they live
in their own pleasure richly and delicately, not like religious
but like nobles, without watching or prayer. This and
many other things happen to them because they have
money to spend, for if they had it not they could not spend
it. They fall into mental and physical impurity, for if
sometimes from shame or through lack of means they
abstain physically, they indulge themselves mentally, for it
is impossible for a man with many worldly relations, of
delicate habits and disordinate greediness, who watches not
nor prays, to preserve his mind pure. Wherefore the per
fectly obedient man sees from afar with the light of holy
faith the evil and the loss which would come to him from
temporal possessions and from walking weighed down by
his own will ; he also sees that he is obliged to pass by
this narrow door, and that in such a state he would die
before he would be able to pass it, having no key of
obedience wherewith to open it, for as I said to thee, he is
obliged to pass through it. Wherefore it is that whether
he will or no he should not leave the the ship of the order,
but should walk the narrow path of obedience to his
superior.

" Wherefore the perfectly obedient man rises above
himself and his own sensuality, and rising above his
own feelings with living faith, places self-hatred as servant
in the house of his soul to drive out the enemy of self-love,
for he does not wish that his spouse, Obedience, given him
with the light of faith by her mother, Chanty, should be
offended ; so he drives out the enemy and puts in his place
the nurse and companions of his spouse.

" The love of obedience places in the house of his soul
the lovers of his spouse, Obedience, who are the true and
royal virtues, the customs and observances of his order, so
that this sweet spouse enters his soul with her sister,
Patience, and her nurse, Humility, together with Self-
contempt and Self-hatred, and when she has entered she
possesses peace and quiet, for her enemies have been
exiled. She dwells in the garden of true continence, with
the sun of intellectual light shining in, the eye of holy faith

A TREATISE OF OBEDIENCE 333

fixed on the object of My truth, for her object is My truth,
and the fire of love with which she observes the rules of*
the order, warms all her servants and companions.

" Who are her enemies who have been expelled? The
chief is self-love, producing pride, the enemy of humility
and charity. Impatience is the enemy of patience,
disobedience of true obedience, infidelity of faith, pre
sumption and self-confidence do not accord with the true
hope which the soul should have in Me ; injustice cannot
be conformed to justice, nor imprudence to prudence, nor
intemperance to temperance, nor the transgression of the
commandments of the order to perfect observance of them r
nor the wicked conversation of those who live in sin to the
good conversation of My servants. These are a man s
enemies, causing him to leave the good customs and tradi
tions of his order. He has also those other cruel enemies,
anger, which wars against his benevolence ; cruelty, against
his kindness ; wrath, against his benignity ; hatred of
virtue, against the love of virtue ; impurity, against
chastity ; negligence, against solicitude ; ignorance, against
knowledge, and sloth against watchfulness and continued
prayer.

" And since he knew by the light of faith that all these
were his enemies who would defile his spouse, holy
obedience, he appointed hatred to drive them out, and love
to replace them with her friends. Wherefore with the
knife of hatred he slew his perverse self-will, who,
nourished by self-love, gave life to all these enemies of
true obedience, and having cut off the source by which all
the others are preserved in life, he remains free and in
peace without any war, for there is no one to make war on
him, for the soul has cut of from herself that which kept
her in bitterness and in sadness. What makes war on
obedience ? Injuries ? No, for the obedient man is
patient, patience being the sister of obedience. The weight
of the observances of the order ? No, for obedience
causes him to fulfil them. Does the weight of obedience
give him pain ? No, for he has trampled on his own will,
and does not care to examine or judge the will of his

334 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

superior, for with the light of faith he sees My will in him,
believing truly that My clemency causes him to command
according to the needs of his subject s salvation. Is he
disgusted and angry at having to perform the humble duties
of the order or to endure the mockeries, reproofs, jibes, and
insults which are often cast at him, or to be held at little
worth ? No, for he has conceived love for self-contempt
and self-hatred. Wherefore he rejoices with patience,
exulting with delight and joy in the company of his spouse
true obedience, for the only thing which saddens him is to
see Me, his Creator, offended. His conversation is with
those who truly fear Me, and if he should converse with
those who are separated from My Will, it is not in order to
conform himself to their sins, but to draw them out of their
misery, for through the brotherly love which he has in his
heart towards them he would like to give them the good
which he possesses, seeing that more glory and praise
would be given to My name by many observing aright
their order than by him doing so alone. Wherefore he
endeavours to convert religious and seculars by his words
and by prayer, and by every means by which he can
draw them out of the darkness of mortal sin. Thus the
conversations of a truly obedient man are good and perfect,
whether they be with just men or with sinners, through his
rightly ordered love and the breadth of his charity. Of
his cell he makes a heaven, delighting there to converse
with Me, his supreme and eternal Father, with the affection
of love, flying idleness with humble and continual prayer,
and when, through the illusion of the Devil, thoughts come
crowding into his cell, he does not sit down on the bed of
negligence embracing idleness, nor care to examine by
reason the thoughts or opinions of his heart, but he flies
sloth, rising above himself and his senses with hatred and
true humility, patiently enduring the weariness which he
feels in his mind, and resisting by watching and humble
prayer, fixing the eye of his intellect on Me, and seeing
with the light of faith that I am his helper, and both can
and will help him, and open to him the eyes of My kind
ness, and that it is I who permit this suffering in order

A TREATISE OF OBEDIENCE 335

that he may be more eager to fly himself and come to Me.
And if it should seem to him that on account of his great
weariness and the darkness of his mind, mental prayer is
impossible, he recites vocal prayers, or busies himself with
some corporal exercises, so that by these means he may
avoid idleness. He looks at Me with the light which I give
him through love, which draws forth true humility, for he
deems himself unworthy of the peace and quiet of mind of
My other servants, but rather worthy of pain, for he
despises himself in his own mind with hatred and self-
reproach, thinking that he can never endure enough pain,
for neither his hope nor My providence fail him, but with
faith and the key of obedience he passes over this stormy
sea in the ship of his order, dwelling thus in his cell as has
been said, and avoiding idleness.

" The obedient man wishes to be the first to enter choir
and the last to leave it, and when he sees a brother more
obedient than himself he regards him in his eagerness with
a holy envy, stealing from him the virtue in which he
excels, not wishing, however, that his brother should have
less thereof, for if he wished this he would be separated
from brotherly love. The obedient man does not leave the
refectory, but visits it continually and delights at being at
table with the poor. And as a sign that he delights
therein, and so as to have no reason to remain without, he
has abandoned his temporal substance, observing so per
fectly the vow of poverty that he blames himself for
considering even the necessities of his body. His cell is
full of the odour of poverty, and not of clothes ; he has no
fear that thieves will come to rob him, or that rust or
moths will corrupt his garments ; and if anything is given
to him, he does not think of laying it by for his own use,
but freely shares it with his brethren, not thinking of the
morrow, but rather depriving himself to-day of what he
needs, thinking only of the kingdom of heaven and how he
may best observe true obedience.

"And in order that he may better keep to the path of
humility, he submits to small and great, to poor and rich,
and becomes the servant of all, never refusing labour, but

336 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

serving all with charity. The obedient man does not wish
to fulfil his obedience in his own way, or to choose his
time or place, but prefers the way of his order and of his
superior. All this the truly and perfectly obedient man
does without pain and weariness of mind. He passes with
this key in his hand through the narrow door of the order,
easily and without violence, because he observes the vows
of poverty, true obedience, and continence, having abandoned
the heights of pride, and bowed his head to obedience
through humility. He does not break his neck through
impatience, but is patient with fortitude and enduring perse
verance, the friends of obedience. Thus he passes by the
assaults of the devils, mortifying and macerating his flesh,
stripping it bare of all pleasures and delights and clothing
it with the labours of the order in a faith which despises
nothing, for as a child who does not remember the blows
and injuries inflicted on him by his father, so this child of
the spirit does not remember the injuries, pains, or blows
inflicted on him by his superior in the order, but calling
him humbly, turns to him without without anger, hatred, or
rancour, but with meekness and benevolence.

" These are those little ones of whom My Truth spoke
to the disciples, who were contending among themselves
which of them should be the greater, for calling a child, He
said : Allow the little ones to come to Me, for of such is the
kingdom of heaven to be ; whoever will not humble himself like
this child (that is, who will not keep this childlike condition),
shall not enter the kingdom of heaven. For he who humbles
himself, dearest daughter, will be exalted, and he who exalts
himself will be humbled, which also was said to you by
My Truth. Justly, therefore, are these humble little ones,
humiliated and subjected through love, with true and holy
obedience, who do not kick against the pricks of their order
or superior, exalted by Me, the supreme and eternal Father,
with the true citizens of the blessed life, when they are
rewarded for all their labours, and in this life also do they
taste eternal life."

A TREATISE OF OBEDIENCE 337

CHAPTER CXLI.

How the truly obedient receive a hundredfold for one, and also
eternal life ; and what is meant by this one, and this hundred
fold.

" IN them is fulfilled the saying of the sweet and amorous
Word, My only-begotten Son, in the gospel when He
replied to Peter s demand, Master, we have left everything
for thy love s sake, and have followed Thee, what wilt Thou
give us ? My truth replied, / will give you a hundred
fold for one, and you shall possess eternal life? As if My
Truth had wished to say, " Thou hast done well, Peter, for
in no other way couldest thou follow Me. And I, in this
life, will give thee a hundredfold for one. And what is
this hundredfold, beloved daughter, besides which the
apostle obtained eternal life ? To what did My Truth
refer? To temporal substance?

" Properly speaking, no. Do I not, however often cause
one who gives alms to multiply in temporal goods ? In
return for what do I this ? In return for the gift of his
own will. This is the one for which I repay him a
hundredfold. What is the meaning of the number a
hundred ? A hundred is a perfect number, and cannot be
added to except by recommencing from the first. So
charity is the most perfect of all the virtues, so perfect
that no higher virtue can be attained, except by re
commencing at the beginning of self-knowledge, and thus
increasing many hundredfold in merit ; but you always
necessarily arrive at the number one hundred. This is that
hundredfold which is given to those who have given Me
the unit of their own will, both in general obedience, and
in the particular obedience of the religious life. And in
addition to this hundred you also possess eternal life, for
charity alone enters into eternal life, like a mistress
bringing with her the fruit of all the other virtues, while
they remain outside, bringing their fruit, I say, into Me, the
eternal life, in whom the obedient taste eternal life. It is

338 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

not by faith that they taste eternal life, for they experience
in its essence that which they have believed through faith ;
nor by hope, for they possess that for which they had
hoped, and so with all the other virtues, Queen Charity
alone enters and possesses Me, her possessor. See, there
fore, that these little ones receive a hundredfold for one,
and also eternal life, for here they receive the fire of divine
charity figured by the number a hundred (as has been
said). And because they have received this hundredfold
from Me, they possess a wonderful and hearty joy, for
there is no sadness in charity, but the joy of it makes the
heart large and generous, not narrow or double. A soul
wounded by this sweet arrow does not appear one thing in
face and tongue while her heart is different. She does not
serve, or act towards her neighbour with dissembling and
ambition, because charity is an open book to be read by
all. Wherefore the soul who possesses charity never
falls into trouble, or the affliction of sadness, or jars with
obedience, but remains obedient until death."

CHAPTER CXLII.

Of the perversities, miseries, and labours of the disobedient man ;
and of the miserable fruits which proceed from disobedience.

" CONTRARIWISE, a wicked disobedient man dwells in the
ship of a religious order with so much pain to himself
and others, that in this life he tastes the earnest of hell,
he remains always in sadness and confusion of mind,
tormented by the sting of conscience, with hatred of his
order and superior, insupportable to himself. What a
terrible thing it is, My daughter, to see one who has once
taken the key of obedience of a religious order, living in
disobedience, to which he has made himself a slave, for of
disobedience he has made his mistress with her companion
impatience, nourished by pride, and his own pleasure,
which pride (as has been said) issues from self-love. For

A TREATISE OF OBEDIENCE 339

him everything is the contrary to what it would be for
the obedient man. For how can this wretch be in any other
state than suffering, for he is deprived of charity, he is
obliged by force to incline the neck of his own will, and
pride keeps it erect, all his desires are in discord with the
will of the order. The order commands obedience, and he
loves disobedience ; the order commands voluntary poverty,
and he avoids it, possessing and acquiring riches ; the
order commands continence and purity, and he desires
lewdness. By transgressing these three vows, My daughter,
a religious comes to ruin, and falls into so many miseries,
that his aspect is no longer that of a religious but of an
incarnate devil, as in another place I related to thee at
greater length. I will, however, tell thee something now of
their delusion, and of the fruit which they obtained by
disobedience to the commendation and exhortation of
obedience. This wretched man is deluded by his self-love,
because the eye of his intellect is fixed, with a dead faith,
on pleasing his self-will, and on things of the world. He
left the world in body, but remained there in his affections,
and because obedience seems wearisome to him he wishes
to disobey in order to avoid weariness ; whereby he arrives
at the greatest weariness of all, for he is obliged to obey
either by force or by love, and it would have been better
and less wearisome to have obeyed by love than without it.
Oh ! how deluded he is, and no one else deceives him but
himself. Wishing to please himself he only gives himself
displeasure, for the actions which he will have to do,
through the obedience imposed on him, do not please him.
He wishes to enjoy delights and make this life his eternity,
but the order wishes him to be a pilgrim, and continually
proves it to him ; for when he is in a nice pleasant resting
place, where he would like to remain for the pleasures and
delights he finds there, he is transferred elsewhere, and the
change gives him pain, for his will was active against his
obedience, and yet he is obliged to endure the discipline
and labours of the order, and thus remains in continual
torment. See, therefore, how he deludes himself ; for,
wishing to fly pain, he on the contrary falls into it, for his

340 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

blindness does not let him know the road of true obedience,
which is a road of truth founded by the obedient Lamb,
My only -begotten Son, who removed pain from it, so that
he walks by the road of lies, believing that he will find
delight there, but finding on the contrary pain and bitter
ness. Who is his guide ? Self-love, that is his own
passion for disobedience. Such a man thinks like a fool
to navigate this tempestuous sea, with the strength of his
own arms, trusting in his own miserable knowledge, and
will not navigate it in the arms of his order, and of his
superior. Such a one is indeed in the ship of the order in
body, and not in mind ; he has quitted it in desire, not
observing the regulations or customs of the order, nor the
three vows which he promised to observe at the time of his
profession ; he swims in the tempestuous sea, tossed to and
fro by contrary winds, fastened only to the ship by his
clothes, wearing the religious habit on his body but not on
his heart. Such a one is no friar, but a masquerader,
a man only in appearance. His life is lower than an
animal s, and he does not see that he labours more swim
ming with his arms, than the good religious in the ship, or
that he is in danger of eternal death ; for if his clothes
should be suddenly torn from the ship, which will happen
at the moment of death, he will have no remedy. No, he
does not see, for he has darkened his light with the cloud
of self-love, whence has come his disobedience, which
prevents him seeing his misery, wherefore he miserably
deceives himself. What fruit is produced by this wretched
tree?

"The fruit of death, because the root of his affection is
planted in pride, which he has drawn from self-love.
Wherefore everything that issues from this root flowers,
leaves, and fruit is corrupt, and the three boughs of this
tree, which are obedience, poverty, and continence, which
spring from the foot of the tree ; that is, his affections are
corrupted. The leaves produced by this tree, which are
his words, are so corrupt that they would be out of place
in the mouth of a ribald secular ; and if he have to preach
My doctrine, he does so in polished terms, not simply, as

A TREATISE OF OBEDIENCE 341

one who should feed souls with the seed of My Word,
but with eloquent language. Look at the stinking flowers
of this tree, which are his diverse and various thoughts,
which he voluntarily welcomes with delight and pleasure,
not flying the occasions of them, but rather seeking them
in order to be able to accomplish a sinful act, the which is
the fruit which kills him, depriving him of the light of
grace, and giving him eternal death. And what stench
comes from this fruit, sprung from the flowers of the tree ?
The stench of disobedience, for, in the secret of his heart,
he wishes to examine and judge unfaithfully his superior s
will ; a stench of impurity, for he takes delight in many
foul conversations, wretchedly tempting his penitents.

" Wretch that thou art, dost thou not see that under the
colour of devotion thou concealest a troop of children ?
This comes from thy disobedience. Thou hast not chosen
the virtues for thy children as does the truly obedient
religious ; thou strivest to deceive thy superior when thou
seest that he denies thee something which thy perverse
will desires, using the leaves of smooth or rough words,
speaking irreverently and reproving him. Thou canst not
endure thy brother, nor even the smallest word and reproof
which he may make to thee, but in such a case thou im
mediately bringest forth the poisoned fruit of anger and
hatred against him, judging that to be done to thy hurt
which was done for thy good, and thus taking scandal,
thy soul and body living in pain. Why has thy brother
displeased thee ? Because thou livest for thy own sensual
pleasure, thou fliest thy cell as if it were a prison, for thou
hast abandoned the cell of self-knowledge, and thus fallen
into disobedience, wherefore thou canst not remain in thy
material cell. Thou wilt not appear in the refectory against
thy will whilst thou hast anything to spend ; when thou
hast nothing left necessity takes thee there.

" Therefore the obedient have done well, who have chosen
to observe their vow of poverty, so that they have nothing
to spend, and therefore are not led away from the sweet
table of the refectory, where obedience nourishes both body
and soul in peace and quiet. The obedient religious does

342 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

not think of laying a table, or of providing food for himself
like this wretched man, to whose taste it is painful to eat
in the refectory, wherefore he avoids it ; he is always the
last to enter the choir, and the first to leave it ; with his
lips he approaches Me, with his heart he is far from Me.
He gladly escapes from the chapter-house when he can
through fear of penance. When he is obliged to be there,
he is covered with shame and confusion for the faults which
he felt it no shame to commit. What is the cause of this ?
Disobedience. He does not watch in prayer, and not only
does he omit mental prayer, but even the Divine office to
which he is obliged. He has no fraternal charity, because
he loves no one but himself, and that not with a reasonable
but with a bestial love. So great are the evils which fall
on the disobedient ; so many are the fruits of sorrow which
he produces, that thy tongue could not relate them. Oh !
disobedience, which deprives the soul of the light of obedi
ence, destroying peace, and giving war ! Disobedience
destroys life and gives death, drawing the religious out of
the ship of the observance of his order, to drown him in the
sea, making him swim in the strength of his own arms, and
not repose on those of the order. Disobedience clothes
him with every misery, causes him to die of hunger, taking
away from him the food of the merit of obedience, it gives
him continual bitterness, depriving him of every sweetness
and good, causing him to dwell with every evil. In this
life it gives him the earnest of cruel torments to endure,
and if he do not amend before his clothes are loosened from
the ship at death, disobedience will lead the soul to eternal
damnation, together with the devils who fell from heaven,
because they rebelled against Me. In the same way hast
thou, oh ! disobedient man, having rebelled against obedi
ence and cast from thee the key which would have opened
the door of heaven, opened instead the door of hell with the
key of disobedience."

A TREATISE OF OBEDIENCE 343

CHAPTER CXLIII.

Of the imperfection of those who live tepidly in religion, because
they guard against mortal sin only ; and of the remedy by which
they can be cured of their tepidity.

" How many are these, dearest daughter, who live thus
to-day in this ship ?

" Many, for there are but few of the opposite sort,
that is to say, who are truly obedient. There are, however,
between those who are perfect and these wretches, a
goodly number of those who live in an ordinary way in
their order, neither perfectly as they ought, nor wickedly ;
preserving, that is to say, their conscience in that they do
not sin mortally, but living in tepidity and coldness of heart.
Wherefore, if these do not exercise themselves a little in
the observance of the order, they are in great danger, and
stand in need of much watchfulness, and of being roused
from their tepidity, for if they remain as they are they are
very apt to fall, and even if they do not fall, they live
according to their own choice and human pleasure, under
colour of a religious life, studying rather to observe the
ceremonies of the order, than the order itself so that
often through their scanty light they will be disposed to
judge those who observe the order more perfectly than they
do, though fulfilling the ceremonies to which they are so
devoted with less perfection. Wherefore, in every way it
is dangerous for them to remain in this commonplace
obedience ; for they coldly fulfil their obediences with much
labour and pain, because to a cold heart it is wearisome to
endure anything, and however much they may endure, they
have but little fruit of it. They offend against their own
perfection on which they have entered, and which they are
bound to observe, and although they do less evil than those
others of whom I have spoken to thee, they yet do evil.
For they did not leave the world to content themselves
with the key of obedience in general, but in order to unlock
the door of Heaven with the special key of the obedience of

344 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

their order, which should be fastened with the cord of self-
contempt to the girdle of humility, as has been said, and
held tightly in the hand of burning love. Thou must know,
dearest daughter, that these are indeed fit to reach great
perfection if they choose, because they are nearer to it than
those other wretches, but in another sense it is harder to
raise them from their imperfections, than the wicked man
from his sin. Dost thou know why ? Because the sinner
knows clearly that he does evil, and his conscience shows
it him, and self-love which has weakened him is the reason
why he does not struggle to abandon the sin which he sees
to be evil, with a natural light. Wherefore if you ask
such a one Dost thou not know it to be evil to do this ?
He will reply Yes, but so great is my fragility that I do
not seem able to escape from it. It is not indeed true, for
with My help he can escape if he wish ; nevertheless, he
knows that he is doing wrong, which knowledge renders it
easy for him to abandon his sin, if he really wills to do so.
But these tepid ones who neither do much harm nor much
good do not recognise their state of obedience, nor how
uncertain is their position ; not knowing it they take no pains
to rise from it nor do they care to have it pointed out to
them, and indeed, even when it is shown them, they remain
bound by the chain of habit and custom through the
coldness of their heart. How shall they be made to rise
from their condition ? Let them take self-knowledge and
hatred of their own pleasure and reputation and place them
as fuel on the fire of My divine charity, betrothing them
selves afresh, as they did when they entered the order, to
the spouse of true obedience with the ring of holy faith,
and let them no longer sleep in that state which is very
displeasing to Me and dangerous to them. Rightly can
the word be said to them, Be accursed, ye who are luke
warm ; if only ye were altogether cold ; if ye do not amend, I
will vomit you out of My mouth. And how will this happen ?
In the way which I have told thee, for if they do not rise
they are apt to fall, and if they fall they will be reprobated
by Me. I would prefer that they should be as ice, that is
to say, that they should have remained in the world under

A TREATISE OF OBEDIENCE 345

general obedience, which is, as it were, a block of ice,
compared with the fire of the truly obedient. Wherefore
I said, If only you were cold. I have explained the words
to thee in order that thou mightest not fall into the error of
thinking that I would rather that a man should be in the
ice of mortal sin, than in the tepidity of imperfection. No,
it is not possible for Me to wish any man to be in sin, for
the poison of sin has no place in Me ; on the contrary, sin
displeased Me so much in man, that I did not let it pass
without punishment, and since man was not sufficient to
endure the pain due to his sin I rent the Word My only
begotten Son, and He obediently worked out this pain in
His own body. Let them arise therefore and exercise
themselves in watching and humble and continual prayer
let them look at their order, and on their founders who were
men as they are, fed by the same food, bound in the same
way, and having the same God then as now. My Power
has not grown weak ; My will desires your salvation no less
than theirs ; My wisdom has not grown dim, but still
illuminates you, so that you may know My truth. There
fore they can rise if they will if, that is to say they will
place their state before the eye of their intellect, piercing
the cloud of self-love, and running in the light with those
who are perfectly obedient. In this way they will join them,
but in no other so this is their remedy."

CHAPTER CXLIV.

Of the excellence of obedience, and of the advantages which it
brings to him who truly lays hold of it.

4 i THIS is the true remedy, possessed by the really obedient
man, who renews it every day, increasing the virtue of
obedience with the light of faith, longing for insults and
mockery, that heavy labours should be imposed on him by
his superior for the virtue of obedience, and of her sister
patience not to grow rusty. So that when the time comes

346 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

that they are needed, they never fail or become difficult to
exercise, wherefore the obedient man is continually sounding
the instrument of his desire, and lets no opportunity pass,
so great is his appetite for obedience. Obedience is an
eager spouse who does not wish to remain idle. Oh !
delightful obedience ! Oh ! pleasant ! Oh ! sweet ! Oh t
illuminative ! For thou hast scattered the darkness of
self-love. Thou, oh ! vivifying obedience, givest the life of
grace to the soul, who has chosen thee for spouse, slaying
his own will, which brings war and death to the soul.
Thou art so generous that thou subjectest thyself to every
rational creature. Thou art benignant and kind, and
meekly bearest the greatest weights, for thou art accom
panied by fortitude and true patience. Thou art crowned with
true perseverance, thou dost not fail through the importunity
of thy superior on account of the heavy loads which he indis
creetly may impose upon thee, but with the light of faith
endurest everything. Thou art so closely bound to humility
that no creature can snatch thee from the hand of the soul
(which is holy desire) who possesses thee.

"What more can we say, dearest and beloved daughter, of
this most excellent virtue ? We will say that it is a good
without any admixture of evil that it remains hidden in
the ship so that no contrary wind may hurt it, that it
causes the soul to advance leaning on the arms of the order
and of her superior, and not on her own, because the truly
obedient man has not to give an account of himself to Me
his superior has that responsibility.

" Become enamoured, oh beloved daughter, of this glorious
virtue. Dost thou wish to show gratitude for the benefits
which thou hast received from Me, thy Eternal Father?
Be obedient, for obedience proceeding from charity shows
gratitude. It will prove to thee thy own gratitude, if thou
art not ignorant, because it proceeds from knowledge of My
truth. It is a good which can be seen in the example of
the word, who as your model taught you the way of
obedience, being obedient Himself unto the shameful death
of the Cross, with which obedience He unlocked the Gate
of Heaven, and established both general obedience and the

A TREATISE OF OBEDIENCE 347

particular obedience of religion, as I related to thee at the
beginning of this treatise of obedience. This obedience
gives a light in the soul, which shows whether she is
faithful to Me and her order and superior, in which light of
holy faith she forgets herself; for, by the obedience which
she has acquired through the light of faith, she shows that
her will is dead to its own feeling, and seeks the advantage
of others and not her own. Just as the disobedient man
who examines the will of his superior, and judges it accord
ing to his own low opinion and darkened knowledge instead
of judging his own perverse will, which gives him death,
the truly obedient man, illuminated by faith, judges the will
of his superior to be good, and therefore does not examine
it, but inclines his head and nourishes his soul with the
odour of true and holy obedience. And this virtue increases
in the soul in proportion to the shining of the light of faith,
with which the soul knows herself, and Me, whom she
loves, and humbles herself ; and the more she loves Me and
humbles herself, the more obedient she becomes, for
obedience and her sister patience prove whether the soul is
in truth clothed with the nuptial garment of charity, which
is necessary to enter into eternal life. In this way their
obedience opens the door of Heaven, while Charity, who
gave this key to the soul, enters with the fruit of obedience.
I have told thee that Charity alone enters, while every other
virtue remains without. But obedience is rightly the key
which opens the door, because the disobedience of the first
man closed it, and it was the obedience of the humble,
faithful, immaculate Lamb, My only-begotten Son, that
opened the door of eternal life, which had so long remained
closed.

348 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

CHAPTER CXLV.

A distinction between two kinds of obedience ; the one that of
religious, and the other that paid to any secular person.

"As I have said to thee, He left this sweet obedience as
His rule and doctrine, giving it to you as the key to open
the door by which you reach your end. He left it by
command in the case of general obedience, and by counsel
for those of you who should wish to advance to great per
fection and pass through the narrow door of religious life.
And there are also those who belong to no religious order,
and yet are in the ship of perfection. Such as these observe
the perfection of the counsels, outside religion, having re
nounced the riches and pomps of the world, both in fact
and in thought, and observing continence, some in the
virginal state and some without virginity. They observe
obedience, submitting, as I told thee in another place, to
some creature whom they strive to obey perfectly until
death. And if thou shouldest ask Me whether these or
they who dwell in a religious order have greater merit, I
should reply that the merit of obedience is not measured
according to the act or place, as being greater when per
formed by a good man than by a bad man, or by a secular
than by a religious, but according to the measure of love of
him who obeys ; for to a truly obedient man the imperfec
tion of a wicked superior does no harm ; rather it sometimes
profits him, because through the persecutions and unwisely-
given weight of a too heavy obedience he may acquire both
the virtue of obedience and her sister patience. Nor does
the imperfection of the place hurt him. I say " imperfec
tion," for religion is more perfect, firm, and stable than any
other condition of life. Wherefore the place of those who
hold the little key of obedience, observing the counsels out
side a religious order, I indeed call imperfect, but not so
their obedience, which is of no less merit ; because all obedi
ence, as has been said, and every other virtue, is measured
by the degree of love. It is indeed true that in many other

A TREATISE OF OBEDIENCE 349

ways, both by the vow which is made to the superior, and
also because a religious has more to endure, obedience is
better proved in religion than in the world, because in
religion every action of the body is bound to this yoke, from
which a man cannot free himself when he wishes without
mortal sin, because of his vow and the sanction of the holy
Church. But these others are not in the same condition.
They are bound voluntarily by the love which they have
for obedience, but not with a solemn vow. Wherefore they
can leave the obedience of any mortal creature without
mortal sin, if they have legitimate reasons, though their own
defects are not such ; for if they leave their obedience
through their own defects, they would not do so without a
grave fault, though they would not incur mortal sin in the
strict sense of the word. Dost thou know the difference
between these two ?

" This man is like one who should take back what he has
given his neighbour through love without any intention of
asking for it again, but without having made an agreement
to that effect ; while the religious gives himself and draws
up the agreement of his profession, abandoning himself to
the hands of his superior and promising to observe obedi
ence, continence, and voluntary poverty, and the superior on
his side promises him eternal life if he observe his vow
until his death. In observance, place, and manner,
religion is more perfect, and obedience in the world less
perfect. In the former a man is safer, and if he fall is more
likely to rise, because he has more help ; and the latter is
more doubtful and less secure, and a man is more likely if
he fall to turn his face backwards, because he does not feel
himself bound by a vow, like a religious before he is pro
fessed ; for until profession he can leave the order, though
afterwards he cannot. But merit, as I said and repeat to
thee, is given to the truly obedient man according to the
measure of his love ; and he may obtain perfect merit in
any state, for it is founded on love alone. One man I call
to one state, and another to another, according to the fitness
of each; but all are filled with love according to their
measure ; so that if a particular secular loves more than a

350 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

particular religious he receives more, and the same a par
ticular religious if he love more than a particular secular
and this is true for all other men."

CHAPTER CLXVI.

How God does not reward merit according to the labour of the obe
dient, nor according to the length of time which it takes, but
according to the love and promptitude of the truly obedient ; and
of the miracles which God has performed by means of this vir
tue ; and of discretion in obedience, and of the works and reward
of the truly obedient man.

" I HAVE appointed you all to labour in the vineyard of
obedience in different ways, and every man will receive a
price, according to the measure of his love, and not accord
ing to the work he does, or the length of time for which he
works, that is to say, that he who comes early will not
have more than he who comes late, as My Truth told you
in the holy gospel by the example of those who were
standing idle and were sent by the lord of the vineyard to
labour ; for he gave as much to those who went at dawn,
,as to those who went at prime or at tierce, and those who
went at sext, at none, and even at vespers, received as much
as the first. My Truth showing you in this way that you
.are rewarded not according to time or work, but according
to the measure of your love. Many are placed in their
childhood to work in the vineyard ; some enter later in life,
and others in old age ; sometimes these latter labour with
such fire of love, seeing the shortness of the time, that they
rejoin those who entered in their childhood, because they
have advanced but slowly. By love of obedience then,
does the soul receive her merit, filling the vessel of her
heart in Me, the Sea Pacific. There are many whose obe
dience is so prompt, and has become, as it were, so incarnate
in them, that not only do they wish to see reason in what
is ordered them by their superior, but they hardly wait until
;the word is out of his mouth, for with the light of faith

A TREATISE OF OBEDIENCE 351

they understand his intention. Wherefore the truly obe
dient man obeys rather the intention than the word, judging
that the will of his superior is fixed in My will, and that
therefore his command comes from My dispensation, and
from My will, wherefore I say to thee that he rather obeys
the intention than the word. He also obeys the word,
having first spiritually obeyed in affection his superior s
will, seeing and judging it by the light of faith to be Mine.
This is well shown in the lives of the fathers, where you
read of a religious, who at once obej ed in his affection the
command of his superior, commencing to write the letter o,
though he had not space to finish it ; wherefore to show how
pleasing his prompt obedience was to Me, My clemency gave
him a proof by writing the other half of the letter in gold.
This glorious virtue is so pleasing to Me, that to no other
have I given so many miraculous signs and testimonies, for
it proceeds from the height of faith.

" In order to show how pleasing it is to Me, the earth
obeys this virtue, the animals obey it water grows solid
under the feet of the obedient man. And as for the
obedience of the earth, thou rememberest having read of
that disciple who, being given a dry stick by his abbot,
and being ordered by obedience to plant it in the earth
and water it every day, did not proceed to ask how could
it possibly do any good, but, without inquiring about
possibilities, he fulfilled his obedience in such virtue of faith
that the dry wood brought forth leaves and fruits, as a sign
that that soul had risen from the dryness of disobedience,
and, covered by the green leaves of virtue, had brought
forth the fruit of obedience, wherefore the fruit of this tree
was called by the holy fathers the fruit of obedience.
Thou wilt also find that animals obey the obedient man ;
for a certain disciple, commanded by obedience, through
his purity and virtue caught a dragon and brought it to his
abbot, but the abbot, like a true physician of the soul, in
order that he might not be tossed about by the wind of
vain-glory, and to prove his patience, sent him away with
harsh words, saying : Beast that thou art, thou hast
brought along another beast with thyself. And as to fire,

352 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

thou hast read in the holy scripture that many were placed
in the fire, rather than transgress My obedience, and, at
My command were not hurt by it. This was the case of
the three children, who remained happily in the furnace
and of many others of whom I could tell thee. The water
bore up Maurus who had been sent by obedience to save
a drowning disciple ; he did not think of himself, but
thought only with the light of faith of how to fulfil the
command of his superior, and so walked upon the water as
if he had been on dry land, and so saved the disciple. In
everything, if thou openest the eye of the intellect, thou
wilt find shown forth the excellence of this virtue. Every
thing else should be abandoned for the sake of obedience.
If thou wert lifted up in such contemplation and union of
mind with Me, that thy body was raised from the earth,
and an obedience were imposed on thee (speaking generally,
and not in a particular case, which cannot give a law), thou
oughtest, if possible, to force thyself to arise, to fulfil the
obedience imposed on thee, though thou shouldest never
leave prayer, except for necessity, charity, or obedience. I
say this in order that thou mayest see how prompt I wish
the obedience of My servants to be, and how pleasing it is
to Me. Everything that the obedient man does is a source
of merit to him. If he eats, obedience is his food, if he
sleeps, his dreams are obedience ; if he walks, if he remains
still, if he fasts, if he watches everything that he does is
obedience ; if he serve his neighbour, it is obedience that he
serves. How is he guided in the choir, in the refectory,
or his cell ? By obedience, with the light of the most holy
faith, with which light he has slain and cast from him his
humbled self-will, and abandoned himself with self-hatred
to the arms of his order and superior. Reposing with
obedience in the ship, allowing himself to be guided by his
superior, he has navigated the tempestuous sea of this life,
with calm and serene mind and tranquillity of heart,
because obedience and faith have taken all darkness from
him ; he remains strong and firm, having lost all weakness
and fear, having destroyed his own will, from which comes
all feebleness and disordinate fear. And what is the food

A TREATISE OF OBEDIENCE 353

of this spouse obedience ? She eats knowledge of self, and
of Me, knowing her own non-existence and sinfulness, and
knowing that I am He who is, thus eating and knowing
My truth in the Incarnate Word. What does she drink ?
The Blood, in which the Word has shown her, My Truth,
and the ineffable love which I have for her, and the
obedience imposed on Him by Me, His Eternal Father, so
she becomes inebriated with the love and obedience of the
Word, losing herself and her own opinions and knowledge,
and possessing Me by grace, tasting Me by love, with the
light of faith in holy obedience.

"The obedient man speaks words of peace all his life, and at
his death receives that which was promised him at his death
by his superior, that is to say eternal life, the vision of
peace, and of supreme and eternal tranquillity and rest, the
inestimable good which no one can value or understand,
for, being the infinite good, it cannot be understood by
anything smaller than itself, like a vessel, which, dipped into
the sea, does not comprehend the whole sea, but only that
quantity which it contains. The sea alone contains itself.
So I, the Sea Pacific, am He who alone can comprehend
and value Myself truly. And in My own estimate and
comprehension of Myself I rejoice, and this joy, the good
which I have in Myself, I share with you, and with all,
according to the measure of each. I do not leave you
empty, but fill you, giving you perfect beatitude ; each man
comprehends and knows My goodness in the measure in
which it is given to him. Thus, then, the obedient man,
with the light of faith in the truth burning in the furnace
of charity, anointed with humility, inebriated with the
Blood, in company with his sister patience, and with self-
contempt, fortitude, and enduring perseverance, and all the
other virtues (that is, with the fruit of the virtues), receives
his end from Me, his Creator."

354 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

CHAPTER CXLVII.

This is a brief repetition of the entire book.

" I HAVE now, oh dearest and best beloved daughter, satis
fied from the beginning to the end thy desire concerning
obedience.

" If thou rememberest well, thou didst make four petitions
of Me with anxious desire, or rather I caused thee to make
them in order to increase the fire of My love in thy soul :
one for thyself, which I have satisfied, illuminating thee
with My truth, and showing thee how thou mayest know
this truth which thou didst desire to know ; explaining to
thee how thou mightest come to the knowledge of it
through the knowledge of thyself and Me, through the light
of faith. The second request thou didst make of Me was
that I should do mercy to the world. In the third thou
didst pray for the mystical body of the holy Church, that I
would remove darkness and persecutions from it, punishing
its iniquities at own desire in thy person. As to this I
explained that no penalty inflicted in finite time can satisfy
for a sin committed against Me, the Infinite Good, unless it
is united with the desire of the soul and contrition of the
heart. How this is to be done I have explained to thee.
I have also told thee that I wish to do mercy to the world,
proving to thee that mercy is My special attribute, for
through the mercy and the inestimable love which I had for
man, I sent to the earth the Word, My only-begotten Son,
whom, that thou mightest understand things quite clearly,
I represented to thee under the figure of a Bridge, reaching
from earth to heaven, through the union of My divinity with
your human nature.

" I also showed thee, to give thee further light concerning
My truth, how this Bridge is built on three steps ; that is,
on the three powers of the soul. These three steps I also
represented to thee, as thou knowest, under figures of thy
body the feet, the side, and the mouth by which I also
figured three states of soul the imperfect state, the perfect

A TREATISE OF OBEDIENCE 355

state, and the most perfect state, in which the soul arrives
at the excellence of unitive love. I have shown thee clearly
in each state the means of cutting away imperfection and
reaching perfection, and how the soul may know by which
road she is walking and of the hidden delusions of the devil
and of spiritual self-love. Speaking of these three states I
have also spoken of the three judgments which My clemency
delivers one in this life, the second at death on those who
die in mortal sin without hope, of whom I told thee that
they went under the Bridge by the Devil s road, when I
spoke to thee of their wretchedness. And the third is that
of the last and universal judgment. And I who told thee
somewhat of the suffering of the damned and the glory of
the blessed, when all shall have reassumed their bodies
given by Me, also promised thee, and now again I repeat
my promise, that through the long endurance of My servants
I will reform My spouse. Wherefore I invite thee to endure,
Myself lamenting with thee over her iniquities. And I
have shown thee the excellence of the ministers I have
given her, and the reverence in which I wish seculars to
hold them, showing thee the reason why their reverence
towards My ministers should not diminish on account of
the sins of the latter, and how displeasing to me is such
diminution of reverence ; and of the virtue of those who
live like angels. And while speaking to thee on this sub
ject, I also touched on the excellence of the sacraments.
And further wishing thee to know of the states of tears and
whence they proceed, I spoke to thee on the subject and
told thee that all tears issue from the fountain of the heart,
and pointed out their causes to thee in order.

11 1 told thee not only of the four states of tears, but also
of the fifth, which germinates death. I have also answered
thy fourth request, that I would provide for the particular
case of an individual; I have provided as thou knowest.
Further than this, I have explained My providence to thee,
in general and in particular, showing thee how everything
is made by divine providence, from the first beginning of
the world until the end, giving you and permitting every
thing to happen to you, both tribulations and consolations

356 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

temporal and spiritual, and every circumstance of your life
for your good, in order that you may be sanctified in Me,
and My truth be fulfilled in you, which truth is that I
created you in order to possess eternal life, and manifested
this with the blood of My only-begotten Son, the Word.

" I have also in My last words fulfilled thy desire and My
promise to speak of the perfection of obedience and the im
perfection of disobedience ; and how obedience can be
obtained and how destroyed. I have shown it to thee as a
universal key, and so it is. I have also spoken to thee of
particular obedience, and of the perfect and imperfect, and
of those in religion, and of those in the world, explaining
the condition of each distinctly to thee, and of the peace
given by obedience, and the war of disobedience, and how
the disobedient man is deceived, showing thee how death
came into the world by the disobedience of Adam, and how
I, the Eternal Father, supreme and eternal Truth, give thee
this conclusion of the whole matter, that in the obedience of
the only begotten Word, My Son, you have life, and as from
that first old man you contracted the infection of death, so
all of you who will take the key of obedience have contracted
the infection of the life of the new Man, sweet Jesus, of
whom I made a Bridge, the road to Heaven being broken.
And now I urge thee and My other servants to grief, for by
your grief and humble and continual prayer I will do mercy
to the world. Die to the world and hasten along this way
of truth, so as not to be taken prisoner if thou goest slowly.
I demand this of thee now more than at first, for now I
have manifested to thee My truth. Beware that thou never
leave the cell of self-knowledge, but in this cell preserve
and spend the treasure which I have given thee, which is a
doctrine of truth founded upon the living stone, sweet Christ
Jesus, clothed in light which scatters darkness, with which
doctrine clothe thyself, My best beloved and sweetest
daughter, in the truth."

A TREATISE OF OBEDIENCE 357

CHAPTER CXLVIII.

How this most devout soul, thanking and praising God, makes prayer
for the whole world and for the Holy Church, and commending
the virtue of faith brings this work to an end.

THEN that soul, having seen with the eye of the intellect,
and having known by the light of holy faith the truth and
excellence of obedience, hearing and tasting it with love and
ecstatic desire, gazed upon the divine majesty and gave thanks
to him saying, " Thanks, thanks to Thee, oh eternal Father,
for Thou hast not despised me, the work of Thy hands, nor
turned Thy face from me, nor despised my desires, Thou,
the Light, hast not regarded my darkness ; Thou, true Life,
hast not regarded my living death ; Thou, the Physician,
hast not been repelled by my grave infirmities ; Thou, the
eternal Purity, hast not considered the many miseries of
which I am full ; Thou, who art the Infinite, hast overlooked
that I am finite ; Thou, who art Wisdom, hast overlooked my
folly ; Thy wisdom, Thy goodness, Thy clemency, Thy in
finite good, have overlooked these infinite evils and sins, and
the many others which are in me. Having known the truth
through Thy clemency, I have found Thy charity, and the
love of my neighbour. What has constrained me ? Not
my virtues, but only Thy charity. May that same charity
constrain Thee to illuminate the eye of my intellect with the
light of faith, so that I may know and understand the truth
which Thou hast manifested to me. Grant that my memory
may be capable of retaining Thy benefits, that my will may
burn in the fire of Thy charity, and may that fire so work in
me that I give my body to blood, and that by that blood
given for love of the Blood, together with the key of obe
dience, I may unlock the door of Heaven. I ask this of
Thee with all my heart, for every rational creature, both
in general and in particular, in the mystical body of the
holy church. I confess and do not deny that Thou didst
love me before I existed, and that Thy love for me is
ineffable, as if Thou wast mad with love for Thy creature.

358 THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

Oh, eternal Trinity ! oh Godhead ! Which Godhead gave
value to the Blood of Thy Son, Thou, oh eternal Trinity, art
a deep Sea, into which the deeper I enter the more I find,
and the more I find the more I seek ; the soul cannot be
satiated in Thy abyss, for she continually hungers after
Thee, the eternal Trinity, desiring to see Thee with light
in Thy light. As the hart desires the spring of living
water, so my soul desires to leave the prison of this dark
body and see Thee in truth. How long, oh ! Eternal
Trinity, fire and abyss of love, will thy face be hidden
from my eyes ? Melt at once the cloud of my body. The
knowledge which Thou hast given me of Thyself in Thy
truth, constrains me to long to abandon the heaviness of
my body, and to give my life for the glory and praise of
Thy Name, for I have tasted and seen with the light of
the intellect in Thy light, the abyss of Thee the eternal
trinity, and the beauty of Thy creature, for, looking at
myself in Thee, I saw myself to be Thy image, my life
being given me by Thy power, oh ! eternal Father, and
Thy wisdom, which belongs to Thy only-begotten Son,
shining in my intellect and my will, being one with Thy
Holy Spirit, who proceeds from Thee and Thy Son, by
whom I am able to love Thee. Thou, Eternal Trinity, art
my creator, and I am the work of Thy hands, and I know
through the new creation which Thou hast given me in the
blood of Thy Son, that Thou art enamoured of the beauty
of Thy workmanship. Oh ! Abyss, oh ! Eternal Godhead,
oh ! Sea Profound ! what more couldst Thou give me than
Thyself, Thou art the fire which ever burns without being
consumed ; Thou consumest in Thy heat all the soul s self-
love ; Thou art the fire which takes away all cold ; with
Thy light Thou dost illuminate me so that I may know all
Thy truth ; Thou art that light above all light, which
illuminates supernaturally the eye of my intellect, clarifying
the light of faith so abundantly and so perfectly, that I see
that my soul is alive, and in this light receives Thee the
true light. By the Light of faith I have acquired wisdom
in the wisdom of the Word Thy only-begotten Son. In
the light of faith I am strong, constant, and persevering.

A TREATISE OF OBEDIENCE 359

In the light of faith I hope, suffer me not to faint by the way.
This light, without which I should still walk in darkness,
teaches me the road, and for this I said, Oh ! Eternal
Father, that Thou hast illuminated me with the light of
holy faith. Of a truth this light is a sea, for the soul
revels in Thee, Eternal Trinity, the Sea Pacific. The water
of the sea is not turbid, and causes no fear to the soul, for
she knows the truth ; it is a deep which manifests sweet
secrets, so that where the light of Thy faith abounds, the
soul is certain of what she believes. This water is a
magic mirror into which Thou, the Eternal Trinity, biddest
me gaze, holding it with the hand of love, that I may see
myself, who am Thy creature, there represented in Thee,
and Thyself in me through the union which Thou didst
make of Thy godhead with our humanity. For this light
I know to represent to myself Thee the Supreme and
Infinite Good, Good Blessed and Incomprehensible, Good
Inestimable. Beauty above all beauty ; Wisdom above all
wisdom for Thou art wisdom itself. Thou, the food of
the angels, hast given Thyself in a fire of love to men ;
Thou, the garment which covers all our nakedness, feedest
the hungry with Thy sweetness. Oh ! Sweet, without any
bitter, oh ! Eternal Trinity, I have known in Thy light,
which Thou hast given me with the light of holy faith,
the many and wonderful things thou hast declared to me,
explaining to me the path of supreme perfection, so that I
may no longer serve thee in darkness, but with light, and
that I may be the mirror of a good and holy life, and arise
from my miserable sins, for through them I have hitherto
served Thee in darkness. I have not known Thy truth
and have not loved it. Why did I not know Thee ?
Because I did not see Thee with the glorious light of the
holy faith ; because the cloud of self-love darkened the
eye of my intellect, and Thou, the Eternal Trinity, hast
dissipated the darkness with Thy light. Who can attain
to Thy Greatness, and give Thee thanks for such im
measurable gifts and benefits as Thou hast given me in
this doctrine of truth, which has been a special grace over
and above the ordinary graces which Thou givest also to

360

THE DIALOGUE OF ST. CATHERINE

Thy other creatures ? Thou hast been willing to con
descend to my need and to that of Thy creatures the
need of introspection. Having first given the grace to
ask the question, Thou repliest to it, and satisfiest Thy
servant, penetrating me with a ray of grace, so that in that
light I may give Thee thanks. Clothe me, clothe me with
Thee, oh ! Eternal Truth, that I may run my mortal course
with true obedience and the light of holy faith, with which
light I feel that my soul is about to become inebriated
afresh."

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